Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Criminal elements within US, UK, Israeli, Pakistani, and Saudi intel.

Would you kindly bring this up in a thread in the 911 conspiracy sub forum? It would be amusing watching you try to provide evidence for any of that. Thanks for the straight answer, though. I find it informative that you include Israel as a culprit. Might explain a lot. Might not.
 
Thank you professor. You are a real fountain of information as befits a man of your stature. Perhaps I have not yet been properly socialized. I'll take all of your words of wisdom into consideration and deal with them as I see fit.
Why are you so evasive? When are you going to answer the questions raised by your initial post and put to you in response? What is so difficult about explaining your opening remarks?
 
What I garner from Gene's posts is that he's ignorant of the history of the holocaust. For most people this would function as a barrier from engaging in discussion about the subject. If my suspicion is true, Gene, I would recommend you to withdraw from the thread, read up on the subject (avoiding so called "revisionist" literature). There are no two sides to this subject. There's the facts surrounding the most documented single event in human history, and there's a bunch of ill-educated or malevolent people spreading lies, all of which have been shown as such.
 
In case you didn't understand it, ddt's short circuiting of the predictable self-indulgent, "Oh what shall we call ourselves, blah blah blah?" was spot on.

It's the "Name Game" (a cod oh favourite). Oh what shall we call ourselves? Who cares! Talk to Clayton if you are unhappy about being referred to as a Holocaust denier and about what you would rather we call you but please don't expect us to indulge you in your silly choices and delusions. Thank you. Now get to the denying and lets have less of the inferiority complex.

By the way Gene (as this is amateur night) NT is probably (certainly) worth 10 of you. In knowledge, in argumentation and in achievement. You are insecure. NT also has a fully formed personality and 802 JREF informative posts. If you do not believe me, ask the other JREFERS. You have what is it, 19 posts. OK?

One other thing, I always believe in giving a noob who is representing the finest in cutting edge noob Revisionism, slack but I am mainly here, it is true, to observe amateur "revisionists" getting disabused of their second-hand notions by some real pros.

As I understand it NT is some kind of history professor. I'm sure that we are all terribly impressed as you are that he is a "real pro JREFFER". That and five bucks will get you a latte at Starbucks!!

I'm sure that NT is worth at least 10 of me on this obscure message board that is read by a couple hundred people a day. I don't really care nor am I overly impressed by him. He's here in a little pond with a 10-1 ratio of ass kissers to validate and stroke his ego.
 
As I understand it NT is some kind of history professor. I'm sure that we are all terribly impressed as you are that he is a "real pro JREFFER". That and five bucks will get you a latte at Starbucks!!

I'm sure that NT is worth at least 10 of me on this obscure message board that is read by a couple hundred people a day. I don't really care nor am I overly impressed by him. He's here in a little pond with a 10-1 ratio of ass kissers to validate and stroke his ego.

There's a reason he's looked up to. He's actually researched this subject, which as I said, it is becoming obvious you haven't. Despite this, you feel you should chime in for some reason.
 
I'm sure that NT is worth at least 10 of me on this obscure message board that is read by a couple hundred people a day.
To be more precise: this thread has over 54,000 views since its inception on 26th February 2011, 150 days ago, which makes 360 views per day. Other thread may be more popular. The JREF forum (not message board) is so obscure that you'll invariably find your posts indexed in Google the day after posting. :rolleyes:

I don't really care nor am I overly impressed by him. He's here in a little pond with a 10-1 ratio of ass kissers to validate and stroke his ego.
And you can judge that with your self-proclaimed ignorance of the subject matter at hand? Anyway, are you going to do your homework?
 
He's here in a little pond with a 10-1 ratio of ass kissers to validate and stroke his ego.
You know this how? You know Nick's motives from what?

Why do you post on so many tangents to the questions you entered here with? I find this confusing. You came here citing good points made by "both sides," yet you haven't enumerated any--and in fact invoked a red herring about your limited time, which seems odder and odder the more you post on subjects other than those you introduced. Nor have you answered the directly related questions to your opening post and listed by TSR. Why is that?

You have yet to offer an explanation with support (sources, specifics, evidence) for anything you've said. I will bet you can find sourcing for the '60s Pirates lineup, or even '63 if you wished . . . when will you answer however the questions you raised about the Holocaust and denial and offer support for your answers?
 
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I do not subscribe to the "conventionally and internationally accepted explaination for 9/11". Im one of the large percentage world wide who believe that this attack was staged in order to facilitate the mass invasion of the middle east by the US and the UK for financial and political reasons.

And you arrived at these beliefs how precisely? No, really, I'm curious.
 
Don't bother. Clayton has admitted that he is ignorant of the facts and seems to believe he doesn't need to know anything about the holocaust to determine that it was a hoax. That kind of "thinking" is impossible to cure.

Clayton has asserted that he recognized the fabrication of the Holocaust after reading the grotesque testimonies and the ridiculous exaggerations of Jewish fatalities.

Clayton also recognizes a huge ongoing ad campaign when he sees one.
 
Clayton has asserted that he recognized the fabrication of the Holocaust after reading the grotesque testimonies and the ridiculous exaggerations of Jewish fatalities.

Clayton also recognizes a huge ongoing ad campaign when he sees one.
Well, Clayton in the third person, I'm not working for holocaust central, I'm part of no ad campaign, and I am not asking you about testimonies: what I am curious about is how you are coming along reconciling your reply to Wroclaw on Taubner with the facts of that case. Let us know, please.
 
Has nothing to do with Marxism. I don't do "isms". I simply believe that criminals tend towards conspiritorial behavior especially in matters concerning money and power.
Quick and simple question then: who do you think was responsible for the Reichstag fire?
 
Well, Clayton in the third person, I'm not working for holocaust central, I'm part of no ad campaign, and I am not asking you about testimonies: what I am curious about is how you are coming along reconciling your reply to Wroclaw on Taubner with the facts of that case. Let us know, please.

Of course you are.

I'm curious about the purpose of Holocaust ad campaign that has deluged the western world for the past 30 or more years.
 
Of course you are.

I'm curious about the purpose of Holocaust ad campaign that has deluged the western world for the past 30 or more years.
Max Taubner. To the point, Clayton Moore. Max Taubner. Your reply to Wroclaw on Taubner was wildly off the mark. How do you square your representation of the Taubner case with the source material on that case?

I won't even ask you to support "Of course you are" because I know you can't and I know you won't.

Again, the question was about the Taubner case and your distortion of it, not a Holocaust ad campaign of which I am not aware.
 
Clayton:

"I'm curious about the purpose of Holocaust ad campaign that has deluged the western world for the past 30 or more years."

No sorry Clayton, lets leave the well-known bizarre denier fascination with popular culture to one side for one second and see if we can manage to answer Lemmy Caution's question first about the way that you saw Taubner when discussing the matter with Wroclaw.

I know there is a lot of information in there Clayton but if you treat it like an essay question and just break it up into chunks you may yet manage to produce something remotely resembling an answer. Even if it is a vaguer than dimly discerned car headlamps in a dense mist and crucially the wrong one. That won't matter, you will graduate to HD, class 2 and you can sit on the sofa with Gene and watch the Pirates with his Jewish friend.

Have another go.
 
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As I understand it NT is some kind of history professor. I'm sure that we are all terribly impressed as you are that he is a "real pro JREFFER". That and five bucks will get you a latte at Starbucks!!

I'm sure that NT is worth at least 10 of me on this obscure message board that is read by a couple hundred people a day. I don't really care nor am I overly impressed by him. He's here in a little pond with a 10-1 ratio of ass kissers to validate and stroke his ego.

Eyewitness Auschwitz: Three Years in the Gas Chambers by Filip Muller

That's all you need to get you pointed in the right direction. Read about blatant lies by Simon Wiesenthal and Elie Wiesel.

Realize that the population of Philadelphia, Pa. the third largest city in the US in the 1950s was 3 million. Now imagine doubling that number and performing a Holocaust on them. Don't forget you're fighting and eventually losing a war on three fronts and land, sea and air.
 
Clayton, when are you going to advance from your eternal argument from incredulity to actually engage the evidence?
 
I stand corrected by ddt for my rather loose usage, having written a couple of times about laws against hate speech and Holocaust denial, as the relevant German legislation indeed doesn't specifically mention Holocaust denial (and certainly, as ddt pointed out, not historical debate and rethinking either). As I am sure you can guess, arguing that the Holocaust--that is, a genocide of Europe's Jews carried out by the National Socialist government--did not occur is the commonly understood meaning of Holocaust denial, not your contrivance.

Here are the relevant sections of the German legislation, copied from Wikipedia: Now, there is a lot in this law that I find very troubling, but a provision for arresting and imprisoning people who hold and state varying viewpoints on the Holocaust is not one of them, as I can't find this provision in the law. Indeed, in Germany, very sharp debates have taken place, and continue, about the way in which the mass murder of Jews, and others, was planned and carried out, how and when and by whom key decisions were made, the nature of the National Socialist government, the roles of various groups in Germany and occupied countries, etc.

My opinion of the law aside, given its contents and your statement that ddt's post is his strawman, I am having difficulty following your thinking about the relationship (as noted previously) of laws like the German law, as you introduced such legislation, to the question of the occurrence of the Holocaust. Please explain what the thinking is behind your posting the following? What did you mean, if not Holocaust revisionism, commonly called denial, by your phrase invoking disagreement with "the generally accepted narrartive"? One revisionist here, Clayton Moore, has noted that he believes that these laws were directed at circumscribing discussion of a historical topic. Is that how you understand them? Why was the legislation passed and what was its aim?

OK Lemmy, what you seem to be indicating here in your rather verbose response? question? Whatever is that there are no laws aimed at those who simply espouse revisionst history or "holocaust denial" which will get someone arrested but rather hate speech which will incite others to violent acts, right?

I have made the assertion that people are being persecuted and prosecuted for revisionism. Well here is a prime example of this.

Thanks
http://news.yahoo.com/court-upholds-conviction-british-bishop-124810526.html

..BERLIN (AP) — An appeals court has upheld the conviction of a British bishop who denied the Holocaust in an interview with a Swedish TV station that was rebroadcast over the Internet in Germany.

The Regensburg appeals court on Monday confirmed the 2010 incitement conviction of Bishop Richard Williamson, though it lowered his punishment to a fine of €6,500 ($9,136)from the original €10,000, according to DAPD news agency.

Williamson's attorney had argued that the bishop was asked leading questions by Swedish station SVT.

The 71-year-old said in the 2008 interview that he didn't believe Jews were gassed during World War II. Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany.

Williamson is a member of the ultraconservative Society of St. Pius X. He was excommunicated in 1988.
...
 
OK Lemmy, what you seem to be indicating here in your rather verbose response? question? Whatever is that there are no laws aimed at those who simply espouse revisionst history or "holocaust denial" which will get someone arrested but rather hate speech which will incite others to violent acts, right?

I have made the assertion that people are being persecuted and prosecuted for revisionism. Well here is a prime example of this.

Thanks
...[/B]
And how well have you researched this? Bishop Williamson is not just a holocaust denier. He came into the limelight because his interview with the Swedish television more or less coincided with the Vatican lifting his excommunication. And the reason he could be prosecuted for the interview was the fact that it was taped on German soil.
Here is the interview on youtube.
And here is a transcript.
Note there is a cut in the tape around the 5 min mark, I wonder what's being said there.
Apart from him mentioning the fraudulent Leuchter report as his only piece of evidence, and his strawman of "6 million in gas chambers", there's this:
There has certainly been a huge explotation. Germany has paid out billions and billions of deutschmarks and now euros, because the Germans have a guilt complex about their having gassed six million Jews.

Moreover, this interview does not stand on its own. The bishop has a history of virulent hate-mongering remarks. This Spiegel article sums up some of his remarks which he has repeated over the last 20 years:
It's all lies, lies, lies! The Jews invented the Holocaust, so that we would fall down on our knees and accept the state of Israel.

The Jews invented the Holocaust, Protestants get their orders from the devil, and the Vatican has sold its soul to liberalism.

For 2000 years the Jews have left no stone unturned to undermine the Catholic Church and to remove Christ from Christianity.

Thus the Jews are getting closer and closer to its goal of Jewish world domination.
It's very clear from such quotes that Williamson is not just a Holocaust denier, but a hate monger.

I don't understand why you bolded the fact he was excommunicated. Are you not familiar with the case at all? His excommunication from the RCC had nothing to do with his antisemitism, but only with matters of church doctrine. He belongs to an ultra-orthodox catholic sect which, a.o., does not accept the Vatican II reforms.
 
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