Going green can earn you your neighbor's wrath

[leftysergeant]

I would favor outlawing HOAs entirely. Any regulation requiring a lawn is a waste of water, which is a growing concern. There is not enough useable water to support the kind of landscaping that people seem to think they need in California or Nevada.

Sometimes, the choice has to be made between supplying munincipal water systems or supporting fish populations, in which case, logic would demand that the lawns be allowed to die.

But sometimes other people's money is allowed to over-rule most people's common sense.

 

[eeyore1954]

A look at the map:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:California_population_map.png
suggests that that majority may not be as overwhelming as you seem to think. The Central valleys are home to twice as many people as live in the Greater San Diego area.

I don't know how you'd do that in LA either, unless it was by driving down to the beach.

But in general LA averages about 10 degrees cooler in the summer and a little warmer in the winter than Houston or Dallas. San Diego is probably a little milder and SF is even cooler.

But the Central Valley is hot in the summer. I spent one summer 1973 near Visalia in a mobile home with no AC or shade. I have since become spoiled.

 

[Arus808]

I would favor outlawing HOAs entirely. Any regulation requiring a lawn is a waste of water, which is a growing concern. There is not enough useable water to support the kind of landscaping that people seem to think they need in California or Nevada.

also how one can do ones laundry. Many HOA's are now outlawing clotheslines in your backyard (especially those homes that have common backyards).

They rather you spend money and waste energy in using a DRYER than having your unmentionables be dried by nature.

Sometimes, the choice has to be made between supplying munincipal water systems or supporting fish populations, in which case, logic would demand that the lawns be allowed to die.

I rather not have a lawn at all (waste of water). just maybe a small grass patch, but the rest would be turned into a work area where I can build stuff.

I grew up with having a backyard and front yard that was concreted over. There's a lot more things you can do with concrete. Play tennis, basketball, dodge ball, hopskotch etc.

 

[BenBurch]

stupid lawyers could I guess scare stupid people. But to enjoy it, that would be sicko.

Enjoying the well-earned pain of others is a perfectly good thing to take pleasure in.

 

[Travis]

I don't doubt that the climate in Texas is a big reason it uses so much electricity. But the surprising thing is that California uses so little per capita. I mean even for a mild climate it's very low.

 

[rwguinn]

I don't doubt that the climate in Texas is a big reason it uses so much electricity. But the surprising thing is that California uses so little per capita. I mean even for a mild climate it's very low.

Many places in Ca don't even have A/C--and some use evaporative-which doesn't require as much electricity.
But Texas has all the big Chemical and refinery plants on the coast, as well as some pretty heavy industry inland...

 

[Dymanic]

But in general LA averages about 10 degrees cooler in the summer and a little warmer in the winter than Houston or Dallas.

Downtown maybe (and even a bit lower than that at LAX) but in the San Fernando valley, average high temperatures during the summer months are (typically) very close to those at either Houston or DFW. I'll give you ten degrees on the average daily mean temperatures (and more than than on the heat index), but I still say if you want to see really, really mean temperatures, Phoenix is your best bet. I always figured the only reason there ever came to be a town there is that it happened to be where a lot of cars broke down on their way to California.

 

[TheNooch]

I always figured the only reason there ever came to be a town there is that it happened to be where a lot of cars broke down on their way to California.

Nah man, that would be Baker, CA.

 

[Travis]

Many places in Ca don't even have A/C--and some use evaporative-which doesn't require as much electricity.
But Texas has all the big Chemical and refinery plants on the coast, as well as some pretty heavy industry inland...

You should check out just how much is manufactured in California too. Also we have a buttload of oil refineries as well.

And I don't know of any homes without A/C except a few scattered cottages on the north coast. The 8 million that live in the valley all have A/C. That's for sure.

 

[leftysergeant]

stupid lawyers could I guess scare stupid people. But to enjoy it, that would be sicko.

Sick is allowing a bully to push people around when there is a remedy.

If not the courts, the pistol.

 

[rwguinn]

You should check out just how much is manufactured in California too. Also we have a buttload of oil refineries as well.

And I don't know of any homes without A/C except a few scattered cottages on the north coast. The 8 million that live in the valley all have A/C. That's for sure.

Your refineries are oil. They don't manufacture Chlorine, Florine, polyethelyne, polystyrene, and a host of other chemicals that require boatloads of electrons for cracking----but point taken on the A/C. I lived in Lancaster, and it was an absolute must. I lived in Las Cruces, NM without it (adobe is wonderful!), but the Mojave. No way.
My aunt and uncle in Ramona (SD area) did without AC, and it was quite comfortable, though...

 

[Dymanic]

Your refineries are oil. They don't manufacture Chlorine, Florine, polyethelyne, polystyrene, and a host of other chemicals that require boatloads of electrons for cracking

Refineries are the largest energy using industry in California and the most energy intensive industry in the United States.
http://industrial-energy.lbl.gov/node/155

 

[bookitty]

Travis, have you considered putting on your TruAmerican™ hat and writing a letter to your local paper?

Just hit all the flag and country high notes:

Concerned citizens of Yourtown - appalled and dismayed, draconian [NameOfHOA] explain solar panels. Explain CA law. Suddenly switch to CA history of technological breakthroughs which promote prosperity, (MacDonald Douglas. Silicon valley, etc) Energy conservation as war on terrorism. Quaint story of WWII, rationing as patriotic duty. Applause due.

Followed by first time unpatriotic attack on drought-resistant garden. CA farmers, bread basket to rest of country. Foods packed into MRAs for soldiers. Already facing water shortage, increased price to get goods to market. All pull together do our part.

Understand the necessity of safe, friendly neighborhoods (good place to mention kids & dogs) followed by hint of fear mongering (what next? No vegetable garden? Michigan example.) Too far! America, freedom, liberty.

Rhetorical question of HOA as USA Taliban.

Signed,
Anonymous
PS: due to fears of petty retaliation. Add hints of previous HOA abuse.

This won't change anyone's mind overnight but a lot of people who are on petty power trips are hyper-sensitive to how they are perceived by their own.

 

[eeyore1954]

I don't doubt that the climate in Texas is a big reason it uses so much electricity. But the surprising thing is that California uses so little per capita. I mean even for a mild climate it's very low.

Just some worthless facts I found.

I looked on a chart and CA was the lowest per capita by a substantial amount compared to the US as a whole. The highest was Wyoming (Few people but I guess a lot of commercial use). The other lowest were Alaska, RI, HI, + NY.

Texas was in the middle.

 

[eeyore1954]

Downtown maybe (and even a bit lower than that at LAX) but in the San Fernando valley, average high temperatures during the summer months are (typically) very close to those at either Houston or DFW. I'll give you ten degrees on the average daily mean temperatures (and more than than on the heat index), but I still say if you want to see really, really mean temperatures, Phoenix is your best bet. I always figured the only reason there ever came to be a town there is that it happened to be where a lot of cars broke down on their way to California.

Back in the 60's most every car going from LA to Phoenix had a water bag hanging near the plate in case of overheating.

 

[CriticalThanking]

The few HOAs I have investigated have language in the agreement that the (alleged) offender pays the HOA's legal fees. Such an HOA has no incentive to cave in, even when wrong.

CT

 

[Travis]

Just some worthless facts I found.

I looked on a chart and CA was the lowest per capita by a substantial amount compared to the US as a whole. The highest was Wyoming (Few people but I guess a lot of commercial use). The other lowest were Alaska, RI, HI, + NY.

Texas was in the middle.

Which is to say there may be something to all those energy efficiency laws and standards they set. I know that probably pisses off the libertarian crowd.

 

[rwguinn]

Which is to say there may be something to all those energy efficiency laws and standards they set. I know that probably pisses off the libertarian crowd.

Or perhaps 1.60 X the population on 60% of the area, coupled with a much milder climate might have something to do with it...

 

[Dymanic]

Or perhaps 1.60 X the population on 60% of the area, coupled with a much milder climate might have something to do with it...

If that's a compromise proposal, I'll sign. I guess the final form would look something like this: The observation that California consumes less electricity than any other state is best explained by its mild climate along with laws, standards, and policies that support and promote energy efficiency and conservation.

 

[Travis]

I think the idea that California has this great mild climate is kinda weird. Sure, the Bay Area does but try selling that to the people in LA during an August heat wave.