Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Mary_H]

Your call.

I already know the answer, obviously - its hardly rocket science

But certain (most) posters were confused apparently.

Is it really that confusing - there has certainly been enough 'debate' on the subject on this thread to have straightened it out at this stage.
This stuff make the arguments on the Copenhagen Interpretation [or Elevatorgate] seem pithy by comparison.

So Platonov, been able to figure out what would make you accept reasonable doubt yet, or have you decided that your belief is unfalsifable?

Sssh, PhantomWolf. It's Friday night. Dr. Platonov is busy writing quadratic equations for fun.

 

[zeb]

the mad man

If I remember rightly, on the night of the murder there was a mad man washing blood of himself in the fountain in the sq that night.
The man was saying I just killed, the police took him to the mental hospital, but the Q? I would like to ask did the hospital take his DNA, and was he asked where did all the blood come from.
Or was the hospital the best place to keep him out of the crime seen, after all the woman reporter was going to be given a slander charge against her and her news paper, by I slander anyone Mignini.

 

[Kaosium]

If I remember rightly, on the night of the murder there was a mad man washing blood of himself in the fountain in the sq that night.
The man was saying I just killed, the police took him to the mental hospital, but the Q? I would like to ask did the hospital take his DNA, and was he asked where did all the blood come from.
Or was the hospital the best place to keep him out of the crime seen, after all the woman reporter was going to be given a slander charge against her and her news paper, by I slander anyone Mignini.

Here's the Times piece on the Fifth man, which reportedly got Francesca Bene of Giornale dell 'Umbria a charge for "causing public alarm by publishing false information."

 

[AmyStrange]

Happy BD Amanda

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(Can't post links yet, so I did the best I could)

Supporters gather to send Amanda Knox birthday wishes - WA USA
Posted on July 8, 2011 at 10:51 PM
Updated yesterday at 11:19 PM
by Owen Lei / KING 5 News

king5. com /news /local /Supporters-gather-to-send-Amanda-Knox-birthday-wishes-125256864. html

"SEATTLE -- Whatever you may believe, whether Amanda Knox killed Meredith Kercher or whether the Italian justice system failed her, this year her birthday wish is obvious... "

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[Fine]

Here's the LINK to Amy's story: Amanda Birthday Fundraiser

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[AmyStrange]

Thank you Fine

 

[AmyStrange]

oooops...

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Amen to that, definitely. And thanks for the post.

You may have a problem looming, as there seems to be two of you. The forum has a rule of one person, one account. Sock puppets (one person with more than one identity) are not allowed, and neither is anyone allowed to post from another member's account.

If there are two of you, the one whose details weren't given to the administrators when joining needs to apply for a separate account for himself or herself.

Rolfe.

Sorry about that. Won't happen again.

Just to let you (and anyone else who might be interested) know, that my roommate is the real skeptic between us (I believe in a whole slew of "out there" things), and thus I find it easier not to post something anywhere unless I can convince her first that it is logical, and (more importantly) passes her "critical thinking test". In short, I tell her what I think and we debate it, which means she questions everything I say, and I have to give good answers (that at least make sense to her) in response.

She's skeptical of almost everything, but still believes that anything is possible. The two things I mentioned in my OP have helped sway her into believing that it is highly probable that Amanda and Raffaele are innocent of murder.

Anyway, sorry for boring everyone with this explanation,

Dave

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[Rolfe]

It's not a problem. You just need to post as yourself, even if you include bits of "my roommate thinks..." If your roommate actually wants to join the discussion, he just needs to register his own account.

Rolfe.

 

[LondonJohn]

So Platonov, been able to figure out what would make you accept reasonable doubt yet, or have you decided that your belief is unfalsifable?

Any response yet? Thought not.....

By the way, the scientific rationale driving Conti/Vecchiotti's arguments in the DNA report is perfectly valid and wholly defensible. There is no way to find "outs" in the report by questioning the methodology or the bibliography. There are no "outs". The knife and the bra clasp were both demonstrably identified, collected, handled and stored in a manner that lies way outside all accepted practices - and one which leaves the door wide open for contamination at any one of these steps. And the way in which Stefanoni tested the items - and the way in which she interpreted the test results - were demonstrably contrary to established protocols and were demonstrably suspect-centric.

To me, the most interesting question about the court discussion of the report at the end of the month is this: will Stefanoni and the other police officers even try to mount a defence of their actions in this case? I'm guessing that personal and collective pride issues will mean that they do try to defend their work, but I wouldn't be surprised if they more-or-less put their hands up and admitted their failures. Either way, my personal opinion (supported by what I'd consider to be a decent, objective analysis of the known evidence and the independent report) is that there is no possible defence against the criticisms levelled in the report.

I therefore believe that Hellmann's court will accept the report essentially in its entirety; and consequently, not only will the knife and bra clasp be totally discounted, but also fresh doubt will be able to be argued regarding all the other physical evidence collected in this case (chiefly the footprint evidence and the blood in the small bathroom). This latter issue is important: the DNA report is so scathing (and correctly so) in its indictment of the methods of collection and handling of the two items that Conti/Vecchiotti were asked to re-evaluate, that I think this raises genuine and valid concerns about how other forensic evidence was collected by the same "crack" group of police forensic scientists.

(Incidentally - as I've said before - I don't think Guede will get much mileage out of seeking an appeal on these grounds. I think that he might be able to attack some of the forensic evidence concerning him (particularly the DNA inside Meredith and the DNA on Meredith's handbag), but I think that the bloody hand print evidence - which is impossible to be present through contamination or other malpractice - is enough to convict him in and of itself, when taken together with Guede's proven behaviour after the murder.)

 

[billyryan]

Right put their hands up and accept their short comings,would you not think that the defence will claim a lot more than short comings, like a deliberate attempt to frame the defendants,

Do you think that the forensic report supports just short comings or a deliberate attempt to frame,by Stefanoni if not by the rest of the original forensic staff

 

[NewtonTrino]

My prediction is that Stefanoni will try to vigorously defend. Most likely by trying to smear those who made the report without actually trying to argue the facts.

But that might be my cynical side again.

 

[Draca]

FBI Steve Moore receives cash settlement from Pepperdine

It looks like Steve Moore got a huge cash settlement from Pepperdine University for his wrongful termination and violation of his free speech rights.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

It looks like Steve Moore got a huge cash settlement from Pepperdine University for his wrongful termination and violation of his free speech rights.

I feel silly, I should have told the idiots my real name, address and driver's license number. I could have won guilter lotto too!

Heck, Treehorn might even have sprung for a plane ticket out here to take a swing at me. I can dream, can't I?

 

[Draca]

I feel silly, I should have told the idiots my real name, address and driver's license number. I could have won guilter lotto too!

Heck, Treehorn might even have sprung for a plane ticket out here to take a swing at me. I can dream, can't I?

HA!

He didn't get the settlement from the Guilters though, but from those rats who may have been partially influenced by them. Pepperdine must regret that now.

We've made fun of Open Letters signed by - Kermit; but Pepperdine received letters from Harry Rag and SomeAlibi ....... I don't know if they influenced Pepperdine but they may have. I read guilters sent Pepperdine Barbie Nadeau's 'Friends Like These' article. Just shows what poor judgement Pepperdine had if they believed Barbie.

 

[pipelineaudio]

It looks like Steve Moore got a huge cash settlement from Pepperdine University for his wrongful termination and violation of his free speech rights.

Got a link? This would be awesome news

 

[Draca]

Got a link? This would be awesome news

Nope. It's coming down from the IIP pipeline.
It's confirmed though.

 

[Kaosium]

HA!

He didn't get the settlement from the Guilters though, but from those rats who may have been partially influenced by them. Pepperdine must regret that now.

We've made fun of Open Letters signed by - Kermit; but Pepperdine received letters from Harry Rag and SomeAlibi ....... I don't know if they influenced Pepperdine but they may have. I read guilters sent Pepperdine Barbie Nadeau's 'Friends Like These' article. Just shows what poor judgement Pepperdine had if they believed Barbie.

Good to hear! I hope it was a lot more than he was originally offered too.

I can imagine how it happened, some crotchety old coot, accustomed to being treated by all as royalty itself, wakes up one morning and his e-mail inbox is filled with vaguely menacing e-mails about the 'dishonesty' of his new servant and how he's bringing 'great shame' or somesuch to Pepperdine by supporting a wretched 'murderess' unanimously found guilty by 25 judges after being buried under a 'mountain of evidence.'

So, the crotchety old coot, master of all he surveys looking down on the 'little people' of Malibu (ever been by Pepperdine? It's quite a majestic site from the El Camino Real) summons his underling and demands he cease and desist from all that is making the natives in his in-box reckless, his every whim being 'law' for so long he's probably not accustomed to hearing the word 'no.' So in a fit of pique he (probably) issues an ultimatum, and then a bribe when that doesn't work, probably outraged by now by such implacable 'insubordination,' bellows forth the writ of execution.

But in this story the Good Guys win, and now his lawyers are fighting to keep him out of the movie, 'cuz he'd personify the rigid and unfeeling detachment of so many people to Amanda's plight just perfectly. The movie already has a Saruman (Mignini) and a Wormtongue (Maresca) it needs a Denethor! The one seduced by the whisperings of the Eye through the palantir

 

[Draca]

Phil Phillips - Pepperdine Chief Adminstrative Officer

Kaosium,

Love the LOTR analogies!

The Pepperdine Graphic says it was Phil Phillips the Chief Administrative Officer who fired Steve Moore.
http://www.pepperdine-graphic.com/n...al-murder-investigation-side-project-he-says/

Moore said Chief Administrative Officer Phil Phillips told him to halt his investigation after he was featured Sept. 2 on ABC’s Good Morning America” and NBC’s “Today as well as in the Sept. 9 Graphic article because his endeavor endangered students in Pepperdine’s Florence program. When Moore, Pepperdine’s expert assessor of risk to students abroad, told administrators that there was no risk to Pepperdine students, they said it was because he was spending too much time on it according to Moore.

I wasn’t spending any time at work on it. It was on vacation days weekends and after work Moore said.

According to Moore, when he refused to stop, he was given until last Wednesday to resign. He declined. And Tuesday afternoon, Moore said Phillips dismissed him from employment at Pepperdine.

Here's Phil Philips:
http://publicpolicy.pepperdine.edu/academics/faculty/default.htm?faculty=phil_phillips

He definitely doesn't look like an old coot. He might even be younger than Steve Moore.

 

[Kaosium]

Kaosium,

Love the LOTR analogies!

The Pepperdine Graphic says it was Phil Phillips the Chief Administrative Officer who fired Steve Moore.
http://www.pepperdine-graphic.com/n...al-murder-investigation-side-project-he-says/




Here's Phil Philips:
http://publicpolicy.pepperdine.edu/academics/faculty/default.htm?faculty=phil_phillips

He definitely doesn't look like an old coot. He might even be younger than Steve Moore.

Would 'snotty young punk' be more accurate then?

Actually I'd guess it was a crotchety old coot having a snotty young punk do the dirty work, that's often how it goes. Aged patricians have the hirelings deal with the irksome personages they'd rather not confront...

 

[Fine]

An Italian looks at the Polizia Scientifica: Too Many Mistakes. (Note, this is a two page editorial.)

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