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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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Virus said:
Leftists and Islamists set to launch new propaganda flotilla;

http://pajamasmedia.com/barryrubin/

According to Rubin, the Islamists are going to be dispersed among the useful idiots, in order to provoke violence and get some of the idiots killed.

Looks like they are having a lot of trouble getting things moving. With luck, they just pack it in and give up.
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Well I am not sure if I can verify this after a brief search of his sources, but it was a pretty terrible idea either way.

They are pretty lucky that Greece did not want to be associated with that kind of dangerous provocational act and will not let boats sail to Gaza from their ports, and also that Turkey reportedly put pressure on the IHH to have them pull out as well.

Still, I would imagine that once in international waters that some of the boats might still try it.
 
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There's plenty of more important things going on in the Middle East than Palestine. The idiots could support the demonstrators in Syria. They could support the Lebanese, who's government was just seized by Hezbollah.

Oh wait, Syria and Hezbollah bomb people and shoot them in the face.
 
I think the arab uprising is a good thing, and have been following Egypt and Libya as closely as I can. There is a lot going on, too much to follow too closely. The implication that I don't care is insulting and ignorant.
 
HoverBoarder said:
So back on the issue of Israel and Palestine, if this is a narrative, it is a narrative that Hamas and other Palestinian groups are creating through their actions, statements, and charters.
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Their charters reflect the lack of self determination. Agreeing to Oslo effectively gave up to a large extent that right, and left them with only a very small part of their original claim. That agreement was not enough for the right wing, who are now in power. Netanyahu set out to derail it from the start, and has said so on video.

If the argument over self determination is of no importance, why is is to important to several people here to question? I would have thought as an assumption it was quite a safe one to make.
 
a_unique_person said:
Their charters reflect the lack of self determination. Agreeing to Oslo effectively gave up to a large extent that right, and left them with only a very small part of their original claim.
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Their original claim was to kill all the Jews.
 
a_unique_person said:
Original in what sense? From the dawn of time, the moment of conception?
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Since the Arabs started their campaign of riots and pogroms in the British Mandate. But mostly after Israel became an independent state.

I guess the ideals of self-determination you think they cherished didn't apply to people who weren't Arabs and Muslims.
 
Hamas children's book called on Muslims to liberate Spain:

And the story goes on: “However, Muslim cultural expression and symbols still remain witness to the superior Muslim culture on my soil…I yearn that you, my beloved, will call me to return, together with the rest of the lost cities of the lost orchard [Andalus] to the hands of the Muslims so that joy and happiness will fill my land, and you will visit me because I am the bride of the country of Andalus.”
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http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/12/hamas-targets-spain.html
 
a_unique_person said:
Their charters reflect the lack of self determination. Agreeing to Oslo effectively gave up to a large extent that right, and left them with only a very small part of their original claim. That agreement was not enough for the right wing, who are now in power. Netanyahu set out to derail it from the start, and has said so on video.

If the argument over self determination is of no importance, why is is to important to several people here to question? I would have thought as an assumption it was quite a safe one to make.
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Ok, well there are a few points to that.

First of all, let's get to the heart of it. The Hamas charter that calls for the destruction of Israel was not made so that they can have self-determination for themselves, it is included because they want to suppress the self-determination of the Jewish people living near them.

You cannot just declare that the right to be able to have self-determination for the Palestinians means the right to kill those people near them who are not the same race and religion. They don't have a right to wage a genocidal race war.


What they do have a right to is their rights under the UN declaration of Human Rights. They also should have a right to self-determination, but that does not include the right to call for the destruction of Israel.


As for Netanyahu, he has definitely been trying very hard to sabotage the peace process since he started. Which is something that I understand given his party's positions, but is something that I definitely do not agree with. It is a position that I would consider very damaging to Israel on many levels, and is not in Israel's best interests.
 
Virus said:
"Kill the Jews".

- Haj Amin al-Husseini.
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WildCat said:
What evidence do you require, since their own words do not convince you?
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i can type....
"be sure to not kill the jews."
-Haj Amin al-Husseini.

...... and have it hold as much evidence.

some dude that has been dead for nearly a century is hardly relevant, especially without proper references.
 
bikerdruid said:
i can type....
"be sure to not kill the jews."
-Haj Amin al-Husseini.

...... and have it hold as much evidence.

some dude that has been dead for nearly a century is hardly relevant, especially without proper references.
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Stillman, Norman. "Jews of the Arab World between European Colonialism, Zionism, and Arab Nationalism" in Judaism and Islam: Boundaries, Communications, and Interaction: Essays in Honor of William M. Brinner. Benjamin H. Hary, William M. Brinner, John Lewis Hayeseds, eds. Brill, 2000. ISBN 9004119140, p. 143. While broadcasting on Radio Berlin in 1944, al-Husseini said: "Arabs, rise as one man and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor. God is with you."

p.s. He died in 1974. That's slightly less than the "nearly a century" that you claim.
 
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bikerdruid said:
i can type....
"be sure to not kill the jews."
-Haj Amin al-Husseini.

...... and have it hold as much evidence.

some dude that has been dead for nearly a century is hardly relevant, especially without proper references.
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Or perhaps Virus thought you had spent a bare minimum of effort trying to understand the Israel-Palestine issue, because if you had you would know all about al-Husseini. But then again, you professed ignorance that the founding document of Hamas calls for Muslims to "carry out God's will" and kill the Jews.

The same Hamas just welcomed into the PA because apparently it's better to have "unity" with a genocidal terrorist hate group than to reject them and their ideology. Or maybe Hamas' ideology isn't much different than their own. Or perhaps you have a different reason why the PA would welcome Hamas into the fold?
 
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