Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[bolint]

Knox never said she was in the kitchen when the murder took place.

Nov 6th 5:45 statement:

"what I can say is that Patrick and Meredith went into Meredith’s room, while I think I stayed in the kitchen. "

 

[Matthew Best]

I forwarded you (via PM) the most recent one which got this "rational skeptic" a week long break.

But what is your evidence that you received that PM just for believing that Knox & Sollecito are guilty? As they are not even mentioned in the PM you must be using mind-reading skills - perhaps you might like to apply for Randi's million dollars?

 

[Katody Matrass]

Halides1

Sorry you lost me just after “Perhaps Katody meant” as you are clearly speculating then extrapolating Katody post. Katody clearly stated that Raffaele’s DNA was on Meredith’s bra clasp! I look forward to Katody’s clarification.

Oh dear

CoulsdonUK, you certainly put much money into my opinion about it.
I'm afraid you need to reread my posts to grasp what I stated. Which was:

DNA evidence only shows that Guede was in the murder room.​

As to identifying individuals whose DNA contaminated the bra clasp it is obviously Italian cops job, not mine, isn't it?

A piece of evidence with a broken chain of custody, "lost" for almost 2 months, retrieved from destroyed and contaminated scene by incompetent crew, showing multiple DNA profiles in testing, then mysteriously destroyed while in cops' custody, and you want me to believe in it's probative value?
It's not very rational.

Add to it that it is the only, single, sole piece of evidence placing Raffaele in that room, that you and the prosecution must put all the bets on, contrast it with the heap of traces Guede left there - now it is not only irrational, against any common sense - it becomes sheer lunacy.





PS. I'd really love to know why do you think Maresca protests against finding the truth and defends Guede against serious questions. Is it his clients' position that he's representing or not?

 

[Dan O.]

Nov 6th 5:45 statement:

"what I can say is that Patrick and Meredith went into Meredith’s room, while I think I stayed in the kitchen. "

Who wrote that statement?

 

[RandyN]

I HEAR THE TRAIN A COMING....

Well we have a witness who comes into Hellmann court and reads...errr has read for him a letter supposedly written by said witness that alleges the defendants did it and yet the very same defendants are forbidden to cross examine this piece of ****.

Sounds like the "railroad job from hell" continues in Hellmanns court. This man is not interested in facts or fairness. And please don’t say Rudy was there to dispute the convicts only. If that were true then he would not be allowed to read errrr have read (by Pignini) a letter written in 2010 for his own trial that states AK and RS did it, and then clam up without any other facts...and worse yet to be allowed to dirty the jurors without the ability to cross. Sounds like Massei all over again...

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for Rule 10.

 

[RoseMontague]

Who wrote that statement?

Probably the same person that wrote:

It is acknowledged that KNOX repeatedly brings her hands on her head and shakes it

LOL. How did that sneak into a "spontaneous statement"?

 

[Katody Matrass]

A side observation:

According to guilters' logic, after embracing Guede's letter it is what prosecution and Maresca holds now that Guede had consensual sex with the victim.

 

[bolint]

Who wrote that statement?

Shall we go through the pipeline?

- It is invented by the press
- OK, it is not invented by the press, but faked by the police, she never said it.
- OK, she did say it, but she did not mean it
- Ok, she meant it but she was confused

 

[RoseMontague]

I was out for most of the day yesterday but the headlines remained what they were when I left.

1. Guede says Raffaele and Knox are guilty.
2. The sex change thing and one of Raffaele's lawyers accused of bribery.
3. Knox not allowed to confront Guede and Guede allowed to refuse to
answer questions.
4. Raffaele's lawyers had no idea about the existence of this letter that has
been in the public domain since last year and is now part of the record.

http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/cronaca/articoli/articolo476174.shtml

What in the world was the defense team thinking with all of this and what is the net result?

The prosecution and that independent searching for the truth lawyer Maresca had no problem predicting what was going to happen. I have to seriously question the defense strategy (and competence). This is ridiculous.

 

[RoseMontague]

Shall we go through the pipeline?

- It is invented by the press
- OK, it is not invented by the press, but faked by the police, she never said it.
- OK, she did say it, but she did not mean it
- Ok, she meant it but she was confused

She was scared and tired and wanted to go home. She was told Raffaele had turned on her and she was going to jail for 30 years. She was confronted with her text message and told that they knew who it was. She gave the cops exactly what they asked for, a fantasy, a stupid theory that the cops had, a version of events that they just knew was true.

 

[Kaosium]

Nov 6th 5:45 statement:

"what I can say is that Patrick and Meredith went into Meredith’s room, while I think I stayed in the kitchen. "

Now show me the murder. Or the break-in. Or the body. How about the murderer leaving, at this point it may not be Patrick, she's in a timeless void. She 'hears' the scream, plugs up her ears, and then doesn't remember if she heard the scream and some thuds because she's upset and imagining what happened?! Then she teleports to Raffaele's bed?!

Which is of course where she spent the whole night.

Did you guys seriously spend years down the Rabbit Hole thinking this was a 'confession' or an 'accusation' of any sort whatsoever?

It's prima facie evidence of mental and emotional abuse, and that's all it is.

I think Steve Moore put it best in his preface to the reprinting of his interrogation article on his new blog:

"It's a frustrating fact that the only people in the world who still hold on to the guilt of Amanda and Raffaele (with the exception of a few Italian police and prosecutors whose careers are on the line) are a few naive souls who possess no knowledge of actual criminal investigations and procedures other than what they watch on TV ("telly") or read in true-crime publications.

These same people; clerks, translators, salespeople, etc., who have an axe to grind against Amanda and Raffaele, have now decided that by virtue of their "expertise" in forensics and criminology that they are competent to question, criticize and even mock the conclusions of career federal prosecutors, DNA scientists, attorneys, judges, FBI Agents, and investigative journalists.

It makes one wonder if these people second guess the airline pilots when they fly. Because frankly, they know as much about flying as they do law enforcement, and apparently their arrogance is in no way compromised by obvious, but conflicting, fact."

 

[Kaosium]

I was out for most of the day yesterday but the headlines remained what they were when I left.

1. Guede says Raffaele and Knox are guilty.
2. The sex change thing and one of Raffaele's lawyers accused of bribery.
3. Knox not allowed to confront Guede and Guede allowed to refuse to
answer questions.
4. Raffaele's lawyers had no idea about the existence of this letter that has
been in the public domain since last year and is now part of the record.

http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/cronaca/articoli/articolo476174.shtml

What in the world was the defense team thinking with all of this and what is the net result?

Perhaps that the stain will be tested, completely discrediting Guede's year-old letter and lending credence to Alessi's story corroborated by two other inmates?

Do you suppose Guede or Raffaele and Amanda made a better impression on that jury?

The prosecution and that independent searching for the truth lawyer Maresca had no problem predicting what was going to happen. I have to seriously question the defense strategy (and competence). This is ridiculous.

I dunno, I think too much is being made of it. The convicted killer who left evidence everywhere says he didn't do it, and the innocents who left nothing there did. Some of the media may have had a little fun yesterday, especially the guy from Sky who got into the schnapps before 'translating' Amanda's spontaneous statement, but I don't think Guede can hold his position in the news cycle being as he's in jail and all and everyone knows he's the real killer.

I do look forward to Maresca answering more questions about the 'extremely credible' sex-change bribery allegations and libel against a member of parliament of a currently popular party in Italy.

 

[Mary_H]

Probably the same person that wrote:


LOL. How did that sneak into a "spontaneous statement"?

Rose, stop making fun. As a citizen of Amanda's home town, I can assure you that everything she wrote in her statements is in the common vernacular. In fact, when we describe our bosses, we always use almost exactly this wording:

"One of these people is Patrik, a colored citizen who is about 1,70-1,75 cm tall, with braids, owner of the pub “Le Chic” located in Via Alessi and I know that he lives in the area near the roundabout of Porta Pesa. Tel. 393387195723, pub where I work twice a week on Mondays and on Thursdays, from 22.00 until about 2.00."

 

[Katody Matrass]

Hi, bolint!

As we both predicted Monday came and go and Guede failed to provide a believable story.

I remember you promised to disclose your version of events, based on the more believable ToD. Not much new information from Guede, so I don't think your reconstruction will need an update (Apart from that Guede sticks to his obvious lie and failed to give any new details - this is telling on its' own).

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Oh dear

CoulsdonUK, you certainly put much money into my opinion about it.
I'm afraid you need to reread my posts to grasp what I stated. Which was:

DNA evidence only shows that Guede was in the murder room.​

As to identifying individuals whose DNA contaminated the bra clasp it is obviously Italian cops job, not mine, isn't it?

A piece of evidence with a broken chain of custody, "lost" for almost 2 months, retrieved from destroyed and contaminated scene by incompetent crew, showing multiple DNA profiles in testing, then mysteriously destroyed while in cops' custody, and you want me to believe in it's probative value?
It's not very rational.

Add to it that it is the only, single, sole piece of evidence placing Raffaele in that room, that you and the prosecution must put all the bets on, contrast it with the heap of traces Guede left there - now it is not only irrational, against any common sense - it becomes sheer lunacy.





PS. I'd really love to know why do you think Maresca protests against finding the truth and defends Guede against serious questions. Is it his clients' position that he's representing or not?

Okay I really do not need to pursue this any further I am content for anyone to read your post and draw their own conclusions of what you actually wrote as opposed to what you actually meant.

PS. I'd really love to know why do you think Maresca protests against finding the truth and defends Guede against serious questions. Is it his clients' position that he's representing or not?

Not actually sure what you mean by the above.

As you know Guede’s conviction and sentence have been confirmed, so his appearance yesterday was only ever going to be a repeat of the trial.

Guede could not be compelled to answer any questions anymore than Raffaele can be forced onto the witness stand they have rights under Italian law.

Maresca position is clear he believes that Guede, Raffaele and Amanda are culpable in Meredith’s murder.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Frank Sfarzo writes about yesterday's proceedings.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Okay I really do not need to pursue this any further I am content for anyone to read your post and draw their own conclusions of what you actually wrote as opposed to what you actually meant.

Aren't the facts about the bra clasp a little bit inconvenient? Or in your opinion the way it's collection, testing and storing were handled is perfectly normal, competent and valid?

Not actually sure what you mean by the above.

Simples. Why is he objecting and jumping to protest actions that would reveal truth - first the testing of the knife interior, yesterday questions to Guede?

 

[Fine]

I was out for most of the day yesterday but the headlines remained what they were when I left.

1. Guede says Raffaele and Knox are guilty.
2. The sex change thing and one of Raffaele's lawyers accused of bribery.
3. Knox not allowed to confront Guede and Guede allowed to refuse to
answer questions.
4. Raffaele's lawyers had no idea about the existence of this letter that has been in the public domain since last year and is now part of the record.
http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/cronaca/articoli/articolo476174.shtml

What in the world was the defense team thinking with all of this and what is the net result?

The prosecution and that independent searching for the truth lawyer Maresca had no problem predicting what was going to happen. I have to seriously question the defense strategy (and competence). This is ridiculous.

________________________

Rose,

Can you provide a source for this information? Did the lawyers say that this was the first time they had heard of Rudy's letter?

///

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Aren't the facts about the bra clasp a little bit inconvenient?

To whom?

Or in your opinion the way it's collection, testing and storing were handled is perfectly normal, competent and valid?

The court appointed experts will hopefully address the issues you raise above I’ll reserve an opinion until then.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Of course there is one interesting part of all of this. Rudy is the only person who was provably there and who has given any details of the killing, regardless of how accurate those details are.

While the story seems frabricated on the whole, it does seem to carry a number of details that actually ring true, basically because he has added them to account for what he suppected could be evidence found against him. Things like going into the bathroom for the towels.

So what does he say about time of death? According to Rudy, the attack started about 9:10 with the killing blow about 9:20-9:30.

So what didn't Rudy know? AK and RS have an alibi that even the prosecution accepts at 9:10, and the prosecution doesn't have them leaving RS's place until 9:45pm.

If Rudy is telling the truth about the approximate time of the attack and killing (which lines up with a lot of other evidence and the fact that he thought the scream might have been heard so lends a lot to being truthful) AM and RS were still at his home, according to the prosecution themselves, and if the computer evidence entered in the appeal is shown to be correct, they were still actively at his home during the time Rudy claims the killing occured. Very hard to be in two places at once...

This is where I suspect the case is going to be determined this time around. If the case can be made for a ToD between 9:00pm and 9:30pm (and I believe that the evidence strongly supports this) and it can be shown that Rafelle's computer was still being used during that time, then the DNA, the so called lies, and Rudy's claims mean exactly nothing because people can't be in two places at the same time.