Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Alt+F4 said:
I agree. The reason for so few witnesses over the summer was that there were too many scheduling conflicts (lots of vacations and weddings).
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I seem to remember that you once mockingly accused me of "knowing more than the Knox family" when I suggested that the trial would likely last into October or November (the Knox family seemed at that time to be under the impression that it might all be over before the Summer recess).

May I congratulate you on a splendid reverse ferret :D
 
komponisto said:
The mistranslation by the Sky News voiceover would be hilarious if the stakes weren't so high and the consequences so dire. It speaks for itself:
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You really believe that the way the trial is reported can affect the outcome within the court? Seriously?

I think some people on this thread need to keep some perspective.

Nothing you post here has any affect on the defence or prosecution of this case.

Likewise for the reporting by the media.

And, as hard as it may be for some to believe, the world is not waiting on the outcome of the appeal with bated breath.

Just out of curiosity, what do various posters on this thread plan to do if the outcome of the appeal is contrary to their stated belief?

If her guilt is re-affirmed by the court, will those convinced of her innocence accept this and move on with their lives?

If her innocence is confirmed by this appeal, will those who believe her to be guilty accept this and move on with their lives?

(I'm sure I don't need to request that you don't speculate or answer on behalf of those who do not agree with you :cool: )
 
bolint said:
http://www.umbria24.it/meredith-rud...a-4-anni-lottiamo-contro-le-ombre»/47915.html
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Bolint,

Thanks for the Italian version ... it is nothing like the translation ... in fact, a million miles away. Umbria24 says that it is the complete statement, so I can't see where the Sky translator got it from.

They have pulled the Knox Statement from the Nick Pisa article on Sky, and there is a comment:

Posted by: Deygloop on June 27, 2011 5:20 PM

Whoever translated Amanda's statement should be sacked.

I'd have to say I agree.

I'll get on to Sky and find out whats going on.
 
I don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows

uk_dave,

I don't need panel of judges to tell me what to think of the evidence; I can evaluate it for myself. If Hellman gets it wrong, I will keep on blogging. But I think that the appeals court might just get it right. The times they are a changin'. BTW, I think that the egregious error in the audio in Sky News can have an effect on the public's perception of the case, just as any misinformation can. What do you think?
 
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Kevinfay said:
Bolint,

Thanks for the Italian version ... it is nothing like the translation ... in fact, a million miles away. Umbria24 says that it is the complete statement, so I can't see where the Sky translator got it from.

They have pulled the Knox Statement from the Nick Pisa article on Sky, and there is a comment:

Posted by: Deygloop on June 27, 2011 5:20 PM

Whoever translated Amanda's statement should be sacked.

I'd have to say I agree.

I'll get on to Sky and find out whats going on.
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But yet you believed the Sky "translation" without reservation - even though all logic would mitigate against that belief for the reasons that I've already been through.

Who are you calling first: "Sky Corporation" or your mate Tony?
 
Alt+F4 said:
It didn't come across to me that any of the convicts were telling the truth and so I don't think anything they have said will be taken too seriously.
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I don't know. From the descriptions I've read, the Alessi testimony was detailed and it was corroborated (by other inmates). I've actually started to think that there could be some truth to it. One of the main problems with this story is the lack of evidence of the second attacker in the murder room. But then again, given the quality of the forensics work, perhaps that evidence was there and it was just missed???

The real problem is that if this story is true, then there is another attacker and he is in . . . England (connection here to the England v. S. Africa rugby match?)! That would be hard for the victim's family to accept, I think.
 
LondonJohn said:
I seem to remember that you once mockingly accused me of "knowing more than the Knox family" when I suggested that the trial would likely last into October or November (the Knox family seemed at that time to be under the impression that it might all be over before the Summer recess).

May I congratulate you on a splendid reverse ferret :D
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Yes, the Knox family hoped it would be over before the summer recess. When have they indicated that more witnesses would be called, something you insist is going to happen, so yes, you think you know more than the Knox family.

LondonJohn said:
The argument phase will cover every single area of the case.
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LondonJohn said:
But be in no doubt that every single issue relevant to this case will be raised and argued in the appeal trial.
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the right of a fair trial

uk_dave said:
You really believe that the way the trial is reported can affect the outcome within the court? Seriously?

I think some people on this thread need to keep some perspective.
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uk_dave,

What I think is that the trials should have been held in another city, due to pretrial publicity. And I think that Italy would benefit by studying and adapting the rules that govern what UK prosecutors (and police?) can say during the pretrial period. LondonJohn commented on this some time ago. Those kinds of things can have an effect. MOO.
 
relay

Diocletus said:
I don't know. From the descriptions I've read, the Alessi testimony was detailed and it was corroborated (by other inmates). I've actually started to think that there could be some truth to it. One of the main problems with this story is the lack of evidence of the second attacker in the murder room. But then again, given the quality of the forensics work, perhaps that evidence was there and it was just missed???
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Diocletus,

Alessi could be accurately relaying what Rudy told him yet Rudy's version need not be true (at least with respect to the second assailant).
 
Alt+F4 said:
Yes, the Knox family hoped it would be over before the summer recess. When have they indicated that more witnesses would be called, something you insist is going to happen, so yes, you think you know more than the Knox family.
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Now you've thrown in a straw man!

The parts of mine that you've quoted were both about the argument phase of the appeal trial. As I indicated at the time, it was unlikely that the argument phase would last much less than three weeks, and that the deliberation and verdict would take at least an additional week. Therefore, if the trial were to end before the summer recess at the end of July, the argument phase would have had to begin before the end of June. I argued that this was simply not possible.

It's now been indicated that (just as I predicted) the argument phase will not begin until after the Summer recess. That means that we have from now until the end of July in the evidence/testimony phase. We know that the DNA report will be submitted on Thursday, and will be argued in a few court sessions at the end of July. But in between those times, it's eminently possible that further witnesses will be called to give testimony in other areas.

In summary, I did know more than the Knox family back then about when the trial was more likely to end - mainly because I had done the elementary arithmetic of times and dates. You seemed to believe (and still do, by the looks of things) that this was crazy arrogance on my part. But then that's perhaps the way you tend to look at the world?
 
LondonJohn said:
In summary, I did know more than the Knox family back then about when the trial was more likely to end - mainly because I had done the elementary arithmetic of times and dates.
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That Knox family must be a bunch of morons compared to you! :rolleyes:
 
halides1 said:
Diocletus,

Alessi could be accurately relaying what Rudy told him yet Rudy's version need not be true (at least with respect to the second assailant).
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Agreed. In which case Rudy could have staged the robbery as he left the property with Kercher's money--he stepped up, opened the shutter, threw the rock through the window and then scattered, never entering through the window? Hmm. But it is still good that there is an alternative version with a second attacker--this will give the court some maneuvering room later.
 
halides1 said:
uk_dave,

I don't need panel of judges to tell me what to think of the evidence; I can evaluate it for myself. If Hellman gets it wrong, I will keep on blogging. But I think that the appeals court might just get it right. The times they are a changin'. BTW, I think that the egregious error in the audio in Sky News can have an effect on the public's perception of the case, just as any misinformation can. What do you think?
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Thank you for your answer.

And public perception matters not a jot to the deliberations of a court.

halides1 said:
uk_dave,

What I think is that the trials should have been held in another city, due to pretrial publicity. And I think that Italy would benefit by studying and adapting the rules that govern what UK prosecutors (and police?) can say during the pretrial period. LondonJohn commented on this some time ago. Those kinds of things can have an effect. MOO.
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On juries.
 
halides1 said:
uk_dave,

What I think is that the trials should have been held in another city, due to pretrial publicity. And I think that Italy would benefit by studying and adapting the rules that govern what UK prosecutors (and police?) can say during the pretrial period. LondonJohn commented on this some time ago. Those kinds of things can have an effect. MOO.
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Yes, I think that the UK's sub-judice laws are a very good thing from the point of view of good justice. I believe that jurors (and even occasionally judges) can be adversely influenced by things they see, hear and read. It's all very noble to say that people can set aside all such feelings - both conscious and subconscious - but I think it's no more than that: a noble ideal. I think that in practice people do retain certain subliminal messages - even if they don't think that they're doing it.

Of course, it's next to impossible to do any kind of empirical study into this whole area, since double blinding and control conditions are virtually unworkable. But evidence from notable miscarriages of justice tend to suggest that a miscarriage is more likely if there is a prevailing public (and media) negative view of the defendant(s) before and during the trial process.
 
Diocletus said:
I don't know. From the descriptions I've read, the Alessi testimony was detailed and it was corroborated (by other inmates). I've actually started to think that there could be some truth to it.
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Alessi lied and perjured himself on the stand last week when he said he didn't recognize the photo of the child he murdered.
 
uk_dave said:
And public perception matters not a jot to the deliberations of a court.

On juries.
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Do you know how the judicial panels in Knox's/Sollecito's trials are composed? (Hint: there are six "lay judges" (AKA members of the general public), and two judges)
 
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