Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Kevinfay]

See now we are being lied to. This guy was never banned from PMF. His logic and thought process leads me to believe he is on the board of directors.

RandyN,

You've been pointed to the posts on PMF leading up to and ending in my getting banned from PMF. You've also had time to reflect on calling me a 'liar'.

Could you point me, and others, to where you posted your heartfelt apology?.

I don't seem to have even received a private apology by PM; were you just getting around to it?

Regards

Kevin

 

[Kaosium]

This appeal is about Raffaele and Amanda, many have posted that the Supreme Court ruling that Guede and unnamed others were responsible for Meredith’s murder are distinct and separate, if so the defence teams focus is on proving Raffaele and Amanda’s innocence rather than Guede’s guilt. I could be wrong but most people would find difficult accepting veracity of someone convicted of infanticide, hence my conclusion that this is a risky strategy.

Maresca is total sleaze. I wonder if he started this whole 'baby killer' line?

Raffaele and Amanda can't help who Rudy told the truth, should it go unspoken because the sleaziest lawyer in Italy will stoop to any depth to disgrace his client? At least that 'babykiller' and list of convictions is now ingrained forever with Maresca in the eyes of the jury as well.

Note that it wasn't the prosecution that did that, it wasn't Mignini, Comodi, or whatshisname that pulled that cheap stunt, it was the scumbag lawyer the Kerchers hired.

 

[RoseMontague]

Must admit I have been finding it difficult reconciling the defence strategy of calling these 5 witnesses with the growing confidence of how well the appeal is unfolding according to many who support Raffaele and Amanda; just seems risky. Alessi is remembered by Italians for his emotional TV interview professing his innocence in the murder of a 18 month baby, only then to confess that he did indeed murder Tommaso Onofri, can’t help wondering how that will go down with the lay judges.

Same here. According to Nadeau he did testify that Rudy said Raffaele and Amanda were not involved. Maresca showed pictures of the baby and got in a shouting match with defense lawyer. Jury captivated. Allesi now dismissed.

Unbelievable.

 

[Katody Matrass]

This appeal is about Raffaele and Amanda, many have posted that the Supreme Court ruling that Guede and unnamed others were responsible for Meredith’s murder are distinct and separate, if so the defence teams focus is on proving Raffaele and Amanda’s innocence rather than Guede’s guilt.

Guede's unquestioned guilt is a huge factor in favor of their innocence from a logical and rational point of view. Why shouldn't the defense use it? The only thing that comes to mind is that logic and rationality is not the way to go in Perugian court.

 

[Kevinfay]

Maresca is total sleaze. I wonder if he started this whole 'baby killer' line?

Raffaele and Amanda can't help who Rudy told the truth, should it go unspoken because the sleaziest lawyer in Italy will stoop to any depth to disgrace his client? At least that 'babykiller' and list of convictions is now ingrained forever with Maresca in the eyes of the jury as well.

Note that it wasn't the prosecution that did that, it wasn't Mignini, Comodi, or whatshisname that pulled that cheap stunt, it was the scumbag lawyer the Kercher's hired.

Kaosium,

I really do hope we get the audio of this hearing.

If it was my sister who was murdered, then hiring a lawyer to question a disgusting pervert that tries to take advantage of the fact, would be far preferable to what I would do to him myself .... with my bare hands !!!

No better illustration of why the victim's family should be represented in court?

 

[Kaosium]

Kaosium,

I really do hope we get the audio of this hearing.

If it was my sister who was murdered, then hiring a lawyer to question pervert that tries to take advantage of the fact, would be far preferable to what I would do to him myself .... with my bare hands !!!

No better illustration of why the victim's family should be represented in court?

I think this is probably the best reason why they should not. In a case like this they can do nothing but bring shame on to those who may not be thinking rationally. That was a despicable stunt.

Regardless of what Alessi did, it has no bearing on whether he is capable of hearing or relaying what someone says. This is evidence relevant to the guilt or innocence of Raffaele and Amanda, it is their lives that are on the line here. To deliberately attempt to prejudice that information with a gutter-level display like that is a disgrace to the very concept of justice.

 

[RoseMontague]

I think this is probably the best reason why they should not. In a case like this they can do nothing but bring shame on to those who may not be thinking rationally. That was a despicable stunt.

Regardless of what Alessi did, it has no bearing on whether he is capable of hearing or relaying what someone says. This is evidence relevant to the guilt or innocence of Raffaele and Amanda, it is their lives that are on the line here. To deliberately attempt to prejudice that information with a gutter-level display like that is a disgrace to the very concept of justice.

I would think an investigation into him giving false statements before he even testified is an attempt to keep him from speaking out. It sounds like the prosecution tried to get him to keep quiet, telling him he did not have to testify because of the investigation. It looks like the judge ruled he did have to testify.

That strategy may have backfired on the prosecution.

 

[Kaosium]

Here are the 'Twitters' in order. Who knows how it played out with the jury, but I can't help but note after all the chaos Barbie remembered his name after previously referring to him as 'babykiller.' Perhaps Bongiorno made Maresca pay for that cheap stunt. Reading the rest of the Twitters it looks like Italy's PM isn't doing well, Bongiorno is in the other party isn't she? Up for a top Ministry of Justice post possibly? Perhaps someday Maresca will pay for that desperate stunt.



BLNadeau
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Convicted child killer recounts jailyard chatter between he and rudy guede. Rudy told him amanda and raf were not involved.


BLNadeau
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Prosecutor pushing witness for details. Jury totally captivated. Witness short with prosecutor.
1 hour ago

BLNadeau
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Kercher lawyer questioning child killer. Sollecito lawyer angry with line of questioning. Tension in courtroom.
59 minutes ago


BLNadeau
BLNadeau BLNadeau
Kercher lawyer shows picture of baby the witness is convicted of killing in court. Lists his crimes and convictions.
56 minutes ago

BLNadeau
BLNadeau BLNadeau
Witness very tense. Courtroom in quasi-chaos.
55 minutes ago

BLNadeau
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Note to defense: baby killers do not make reliable witnesses.
54 minutes ago


BLNadeau
BLNadeau BLNadeau
Yelling in courtroom between maresca and bongiorno.
53 minutes ago

BLNadeau
BLNadeau BLNadeau
Judge wants to dismiss witness. Maresca implying that alessi sold his story for help with his own appeal.
52 minutes ago


BLNadeau
BLNadeau BLNadeau
Alessi dismissed.
47 minutes ago

 

[zeb]

At the moment at what I see is at the moment Maresar, is playing the scared card, against ,Alessi,s.
So in my view, if he got to play that card, he has nothing to go on in the slander trials.
Aless,s is all ready know has the man that killed a little one, in Italy. So that would be no big news in Italy.
But what I see what’s happening, is that Judge Hellmann, wants to play by the real rules of laws in Italy.
So given the last fact, Maresar, is just playing an old hand of cards, it’s time two get a new hand of cards to play with.
Maresar, has lost big time.

 

[Kevinfay]

Kaosium,

Sollecito and Knox's lives on the line?

Niether Sollecito nor Knox risk having their lives ended like Meredith and the baby?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

I think this is probably the best reason why they should not. In a case like this they can do nothing but bring shame on to those who may not be thinking rationally. That was a despicable stunt.

Regardless of what Alessi did, it has no bearing on whether he is capable of hearing or relaying what someone says. This is evidence relevant to the guilt or innocence of Raffaele and Amanda, it is their lives that are on the line here. To deliberately attempt to prejudice that information with a gutter-level display like that is a disgrace to the very concept of justice.

I couldn’t disagree with you more any parent would revile Alessi’s actions and as I have stated he appeared with his wife on Italian TV professing his innocence then confessed! He didn’t smother the baby who was crying apparently but bashed his head in with a shovel; these facts do have an impact on how someone would view Alessi character! If you regard the stunt as despicable, what do you think the average person thinks of Alessi’s actions?

 

[Kaosium]

I would think an investigation into him giving false statements before he even testified is an attempt to keep him from speaking out. It sounds like the prosecution tried to get him to keep quiet, telling him he did not have to testify because of the investigation. It looks like the judge ruled he did have to testify.

That strategy may have backfired on the prosecution.

I noticed that too, those are desperate, deluded men. I wonder what the judge thought of that whole scorched earth strategy?

This is Italy, they have to accept testimony from all sorts of nasty people in Mafia trials and the like to put away nastier people--or at least more of them. In this case Alessi testified against the grain, for two people who couldn't help him at all, and against the ones trying to silence him and who could actually do harm to his future. I'd like to know how the Jackal Maresca tried to imply Alessi was helping himself by testifying, especially after he's been threatened with charges for even speaking to the defense lawyers.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

I noticed that too, those are desperate, deluded men. I wonder what the judge thought of that whole scorched earth strategy?

This is Italy, they have to accept testimony from all sorts of nasty people in Mafia trials and the like to put away nastier people--or at least more of them. In this case Alessi testified against the grain, for two people who couldn't help him at all, and against the ones trying to silence him and who could actually do harm to his future. I'd like to know how the Jackal Maresca tried to imply Alessi was helping himself by testifying, especially after he's been threatened with charges for even speaking to the defense lawyers.

It remains to be seen how the appeal court regarded Alessi’s testimony, from my perspective the overriding question is why, did the defence undertake this risky strategy and not the actions of Maresca. If anyone in court today can be described as a jackal that would be Alessi in my opinion, maybe I am being hard on someone who has served time for sexual violence then went on to commit infanticide.

 

[Kaosium]

Kaosium,

Sollecito and Knox's lives on the line?

Niether Sollecito nor Knox risk having their lives ended like Meredith and the baby?

They have thirty years on the on the line here, the better part of the rest of it, do the math. Hell, who knows, Mignini might add more charges on them later in the trial! Amanda faces six more just for telling her side of the story in the last one.

I don't think you're getting something. Instead of visiting police conferences, go find yourself a doctor or two, or three, and ask them just how long it would take for a healthy young woman of about 20 years or so to pass anything to their duodenum from a small-to-moderate meal of pizza considering she'd consumed little or no alcohol in a low stress environment.

Or just look it up in the literature available online, it's not that difficult to find.

I couldn’t disagree with you more any parent would revile Alessi’s actions and as I have stated he appeared with his wife on Italian TV professing his innocence then confessed! He didn’t smother the baby who was crying apparently but bashed his head in with a shovel; these facts do have an impact on how someone would view Alessi character! If you regard the stunt as despicable, what do you think the average person thinks of Alessi’s actions?

What does that have to do with his hearing and ability to speak? What could he possibly gain by testifying against the prosecution? Why would he lie?

Do you honestly believe that there are not many murderers in jail in Italy because of the testimony of people like Alessi? Do you think Maresca brought honor to his clients with that despicable stunt? Do you realize that when Raffaele and Amanda are freed, the Kerchers due to their mindless quest for vengeance against obvious innocents may very well contend for the title of least sympathetic non-criminal families of victims in recent history?

That's where they're headed with me if Maresca shows up in court for them again.

 

[Kaosium]

It remains to be seen how the appeal court regarded Alessi’s testimony, from my perspective the overriding question is why, did the defence undertake this risky strategy and not the actions of Maresca. If anyone in court today can be described as a jackal that would be Alessi in my opinion, maybe I am being hard on someone who has served time for sexual violence then went on to commit infanticide.

He's in with Rudy Guede, the one Maresca didn't even bother seeking vengeance against, what did you expect? A petty thief? That he and three others all heard Guede confess they didn't do it is relevant evidence in a trial for two people facing life sentences, in part because of the Jackal Maresca.

Or...was it about the money after all? Can you explain to me why such effort is put into punishing Raffaele and Amanda and not Rudy Guede when it's pretty damned obvious he was involved, and it's pretty damned obvious Raffaele and Amanda weren't?

 

[Danceme]

Maresca is total sleaze. I wonder if he started this whole 'baby killer' line?

Raffaele and Amanda can't help who Rudy told the truth, should it go unspoken because the sleaziest lawyer in Italy will stoop to any depth to disgrace his client? At least that 'babykiller' and list of convictions is now ingrained forever with Maresca in the eyes of the jury as well.

Note that it wasn't the prosecution that did that, it wasn't Mignini, Comodi, or whatshisname that pulled that cheap stunt, it was the scumbag lawyer the Kerchers hired.

I really think your outrage over the Kercher's having a lawyer is completely over the top and just goes to show you're incapable of seeing this whole case from any point of view other than as one of Amanda Knox's most impassioned supporters.
You even said they shouldn't have retained one because it isn't required by Italian law, therefore it must have been Mignini's idea. Have you even stopped to consider the overwhelming emotion and confusion the Kercher family must have been feeling when informed their daughter was brutally murdered in another country, one where they didn't understand the language or justice system.
Put yourself in their shoes for a moment and stop with the ludicrous misguided outrage.

I think this is probably the best reason why they should not. In a case like this they can do nothing but bring shame on to those who may not be thinking rationally. That was a despicable stunt.

Regardless of what Alessi did, it has no bearing on whether he is capable of hearing or relaying what someone says. This is evidence relevant to the guilt or innocence of Raffaele and Amanda, it is their lives that are on the line here. To deliberately attempt to prejudice that information with a gutter-level display like that is a disgrace to the very concept of justice.

"Regardless of what Alessi did....." Alessi is a proven liar, a boldfaced liar! And a brutal murderer to boot. How on earth do you think that has no relevance to his credibility on what he " claims" to have heard?
Your arguments are getting quite incredulous on this issue.

 

[Danceme]

He's in with Rudy Guede, the one Maresca didn't even bother seeking vengeance against, what did you expect? A petty thief? That he and three others all heard Guede confess they didn't do it is relevant evidence in a trial for two people facing life sentences, in part because of the Jackal Maresca.

Or...was it about the money after all? Can you explain to me why such effort is put into punishing Raffaele and Amanda and not Rudy Guede when it's pretty damned obvious he was involved, and it's pretty damned obvious Raffaele and Amanda weren't?

Why are you so convinced those witnesses are telling the truth? How can you tell? Are you not even going to wait for their testimony to make up your mind?

 

[RoseMontague]

What does that have to do with his hearing and ability to speak? What could he possibly gain by testifying against the prosecution? Why would he lie?

It does seem to me that the prosecution went to great effort to show this inmate plenty of reason not to speak out. Then Maresca tries to argue that he is speaking out to help his appeal? That makes no sense.

Maybe I was wrong about the defense strategy with these inmates. I wonder if they knew the lengths the prosecution and Maresca would go to in an attempt to keep any dissenting witnesses silent.

 

[Danceme]

Do you realize that when Raffaele and Amanda are freed, the Kerchers due to their mindless quest for vengeance against obvious innocents may very well contend for the title of least sympathetic non-criminal families of victims in recent history?

That's where they're headed with me if Maresca shows up in court for them again.

I think you need a break!

 

[Danceme]

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