Merged Cold Fusion Claims

Status
Not open for further replies.
Unclep2k

Then why doesn't Rossi let the scientific world take a "hard look" at his e-cat device?
 
attaboy said:
Just to name a few, there's names like McKubre, Case, and US Naval Research. Go look it up.
I'm not scared you'll find fault with it. I know you will. But I really don't care much what you do at this point.
Let me tell you something. If I were told that some posters on this forum were either planted here by big money, or were big money sympathizers, I would not dismiss that as untrue.
Click to expand...

:dl:

If this were even close to being true, the big money would have bought it already, and somebody would be very, very rich.
 
unclep2k said:
I 'm thinking more in terms of the unwillingness to give it an intense effort in the past and possible ignoring some data rather than a full blown conspiracy theory.
Click to expand...

Is that the 'unwillingness to give it an intense effort' before or after the intense effort to replicate P&F turned up nothing? There's a finite amount of investigating that can be done, so people prioritize. Cold fusion was intensely investigated until nothing could be found. People moved on to things that looked more promising.

Nothing's stopping you spending your time investigating it or lobbying your government to go investigate it, if you feel it's important.
 
I guess he has his reasons. They could be anything from he's a crook to he just doesn't care about what scientific community thinks. I'm more concerned about getting money for lenr research rather than just Rossi. He's either for real or not. He's boxed himself into a time frame and we will know fairly soon.
 
nathan No I'm not going to site specific papers, but I think there is a lot of research supporting lenr reactions. Even the US government is starting to acknowledge that.
 
attaboy said:
Let me tell you something. If I were told that some posters on this forum were either planted here by big money, or were big money sympathizers, I would not dismiss that as untrue.
Click to expand...

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the conspiracy theorist's mind. Anyone who disagrees with him is either a shill or incredibly stupid.
 
nathan said:
Is that the 'unwillingness to give it an intense effort' before or after the intense effort to replicate P&F turned up nothing?
Click to expand...
Right, we had:

* April-May 1989 - dozens of universities all over the world working on replication on their own nickel
* August 1989 - State of Utah puts in $4.5M towards research
* 1992-1998 - Toyota funds lab in France for £12M
* 1992-1997 - Japan funds research for $20M

At this point, and for the past decade, if there is a certain lack of enthusiasm... IMO it is not some big conspiracy or bickering. It is because P&F's premature rush to media glory poisoned the well. By 2000, tons of time and money had already been pounded down rat-holes in this area.

Pleading to conspiracy theories (as another poster did recently in this thread) is lazy excuse-making for lack of success.
 
McFate
Maybe that sounds like a lot, but how much has been spent on Tokamak research without any rewards. I don't think anyone ever said there would be a commercial lenr product without lots of research.
 
Actually, a lot of researchers that have seen lenr results will admit they are not sure it will ever scale up into a commercial product. More research is needed.
 
Craig B said:
Does this mean that the October release date is still on - or does it mean he's going to try to attract investment prior to the commercialisation of the e-cat?
Click to expand...

I think it means the October release is still on. When talking about his inability to and concerns regarding being able to patent the device/process internationally, he's spoken specifically of the planned small home units. The large industrial units like the Greek 1 MW installation do not appear to be motivating this concern (I suppose since they can be more easily controlled and prevented from being taken apart and examined). But I could be wrong. :D
 
unclep2k said:
I don't think anyone ever said there would be a commercial lenr product without lots of research.
Click to expand...
I do not believe that is accurate.

On USEnet circa 1992, I had a CF proponent -- one who was highly enough placed to be testifying before congress about funding for it, he claimed -- personally guarantee me that there would be consumer CF power cells by 1995.

At that point, it was believed (by the true believers at least) that the level of funding, research, and effort, was more than sufficient to yield a commercially viable product in a few years.
 
McFate
I guess the closest I can remember of a commercial product was the Paterson Power Cell somewhere back in the 90's. I think it was Motorola that tested it and got decent results. Almost bought in. Then the material science issue stepped in again. They couldn't recreate the beads in the cell to work like their original batch
 
unclep2k said:
I 'm thinking more in terms of the unwillingness to give it an intense effort in the past and possible ignoring some data rather than a full blown conspiracy theory.
Click to expand...

unclep2k said:
nathan No I'm not going to site specific papers, but I think there is a lot of research supporting lenr reactions. Even the US government is starting to acknowledge that.
Click to expand...

You can't have it both ways.
 
unclep2k said:
Actually, a lot of researchers that have seen lenr results will admit they are not sure it will ever scale up into a commercial product. More research is needed.
Click to expand...

Contradiction: on one hand you say "a lot of researchers" have built cold-fusion rigs and gotten "results". On the other hand when we ask to see competent, well-documented results, you say it's because Rossi's trade secrets are held so tightly that a still water calorimetry test would reveal too much.

Imagine the same thing from a Bigfoot believer:

Q: "Why can't we get a hair sample? A good photo?"
A: "The guy who has the hair sample obviously can't have it DNA-analyzed; its contents are a big secret! He stands to make a fortune from it if he's careful! And if he unveiled his photo, the government would steal his hair sample."

Q: "That's kind of a stretch; why should I believe one guy who won't reveal any evidence?"
A: "But EVERYONE has seen Bigfoot. Thousands of people. A Bigfoot was bagging groceries at Kroger's in Walla Walla, and one plays trombone in a high school marching band in Coeur d'Alene."

Q: Can't one of *them* take a photo and a hair sample?
A: ...
 
Last edited:
Nathan We are talking over 20 years. Things are starting to loosen up a bit. You never heard of agencies of the government talking pro lenr until recently. So you can have it both ways over time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom