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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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Pardalis said:
Maybe the Fool expected a perfect 1-1 score for Israel, you know, holding Israel to a double higher standard and all that.
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no...I'm not holding them to a higher standard. I believe I know why they get a rating of 2 for civil liberties....do you?
 
Mycroft said:
You've been doing this for years, putting out some vague innuendo and presenting it as evidence. It doesn't work that way. If you feel non-Jews are inherently second class citizens in Israel, then it's up to you to make the assertion and provide evidence for it. Making an innuendo and challenging people to prove it's not true is the methodology of conspiracy nutters and truthers.
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I'm not challenging anyone to prove anything is not true....I am simply asking for members (such as yourself) who state that all Israeli citizens are equal and state that Israel is the home of only some of them to explain how its not contradictory.

so far...nobody (including yourself) is interested in explaining the contradiction in their statements.
 
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The Fool said:
I'm not challenging anyone to prove anything is not true....I am simply asking for members (such as yourself) who state that all Israeli citizens are equal and state that Israel is the home of only some of them to explain how its not contradictory.
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Israeli immigration law discriminates against non-Jews.

Arab students receive 50% as much funds as Jewish students.

Housing discrimination is legal in Israel.

Education discrimination is legal in Israel.

Israeli-Arabs are routinely accused of being a fifth-column, a demographic threat, and are constantly the subject of neo-fascist legislation in the Knesset.

There are all sorts of benefits only available to Israelis who are Jewish immigrants.


...sure, Israeli-Arabs have civil and political rights. But non-Jews are surely not treated the same as Jews in Israel. Denial of this is either utter ignorance, or utter dishonesty.
 
The Fool said:
but how did it get the 2 ? what is the problem with civil liberties that places Israel behind australia for example?
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clearly, the study is anti-Semitic.

why else would a study suggest civil liberties in Israel are less than in Australia?

anti-Semitism and hatred of Jews, is the only possible answer.
 
theprestige said:
Maybe you think Israel's sovereignty in the West Bank is illegitimate, but that simply means that you're in favor of de-legitimizing Israel by recognizing a Palestinian state in the West Bank. But if you think that de-legitimizing Israel is a good thing, why deny that's what you want? On the other hand, if you think it's a bad thing, why do you want to do exactly that?
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my friend, Israel has NEVER imposed its sovereignty upon the West Bank.

Israel has annexed the Golan Heights, and made the Druse citizens Permanent Residents.

Israel has annexed East Jerusalem, and made the Arab residents Permanent Residents.

However, Israel has NOT annexed the West Bank. They have never imposed their sovereignty upon the area. Israel civilian law does not govern the West Bank.

Not only that, but multiple Israeli PMs have recognized the land as Occupied Territory, in dispute between two parties. Recognizing Palestinian soveriegnity has is simply picking sides in the dispute, but it has no relevence upon the legitimacy of the State of Israel itself. This is just silly fear-mongering and hyperbole.

what's next, suggesting that a vote for Palestinian statehood in the UN= a vote for Hitler?
 
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So you guys hate Israel because it gets a 2 in civil liberties? Do you hate Japan too?

Let's start threads about Japan. Scanning Japanese newspapers for bad things to say about it. A post every hour, on the hour. Pretending to be all outraged and stuff.

Maybe we could scold it over not being friendly enough to North Korea.
 
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Let's start threads about Japan. Scanning Japanese newspapers for bad things to say about it.

no one is stopping you.
 
Virus said:
So you guys hate Israel because it gets a 2 in civil liberties? Do you hate Japan too?

Let's start threads about Japan. Scanning Japanese newspapers for bad things to say about it. A post every hour, on the hour. Pretending to be all outraged and stuff.

Maybe we could scold it over not being friendly enough to North Korea.
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Silly man, Japan isn't run by Jews.
 
Originally Posted by WildCat
Silly man, Japan isn't run by Jews.

translation: the only reason to criticise Israel is anti-Semitism.
 
The Fool said:
I'm not challenging anyone to prove anything is not true....I am simply asking for members (such as yourself) who state that all Israeli citizens are equal and state that Israel is the home of only some of them to explain how its not contradictory.

so far...nobody (including yourself) is interested in explaining the contradiction in their statements.
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See, if I say "America is the home of the brave", as is stated in our national anthem, it doesn't imply that cowards have fewer civil liberties than brave people. In a similar way, if I say "Canada is home to the Inuit people", which is true, it still doesn't mean that non-Inuit people are second-class citizens.

So, nobody wants to take up your challenge because the "contradiction" is in your mind. If you disagree and want to demonstrate it's a contradiction in real life, then put up the evidence.
 
bikerdruid said:
hmmm...are you admitting that jews call all the shots in israel?
are there no non-jews in the israreli government?
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Why do you even participate in these discussions if you can't absorb even the basic facts? C'mon, you can't possible not know that there are many non-Jews in the Israeli government.
 
Mycroft said:
Here is an informative study showing the opinions of Israelis and Palestinians towards the various proposals towards peace. I think it will serve as in important wake-up to anyone who honestly believes that Israeli intransigence is the sole obstacle to peace.

http://onevoicemovement.org/programs/documents/OneVoiceIrwinReport.pdf
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It will be interesting to see if the usual Israel-bashers here can (or even will try to) somehow reconcile their positions on the peace process with the results of this survey.
 
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=194259

Hamas leader says Jews were kicked out by France, Britain, Russia and Germany “because they betrayed, stole and corrupted these countries."

The Jews will soon be expelled from Palestine that same way they were kicked out by France, Britain, Belgium, Russia and Germany, Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar said over the weekend.

“The only nation that received the Jews after they were expelled was the Islamic nation, which protected them and looked after them,” Zahar said in a speech in Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza Strip over the weekend.
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Gotta love that kind of double-speak. Jews are evil and we will soon kick them out, but we are their only friends...

So...how do you make peace with that?

Edited to add, great picture to go along with the article.
 
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mortimer said:
It will be interesting to see if the usual Israel-bashers here can (or even will try to) somehow reconcile their positions on the peace process with the results of this survey.
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Yes, I wish I could quote sections of it for easier discussion, but the PDF format makes that difficult.

My prediction is they will do what they always do. Focus only on the parts they like and ignore the rest.
 
Mycroft said:
Yes, I wish I could quote sections of it for easier discussion, but the PDF format makes that difficult.

My prediction is they will do what they always do. Focus only on the parts they like and ignore the rest.
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There's not much to like, if one still thinks the Palestinians are in any mood to negotiate anything.
 
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