Merged Cold Fusion Claims

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jond said:
Why do you suppose none of them came out in support of Steorn after taking a look? Could it be because it was not what it claimed to be?
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Certainly. If they had been impressed they probably would have looked further. I'd be surprised, though, if they'd throw in support without a thorough investigation.
 
CaveDave said:
:rolleyes:

If the shoe fits... :D

Dave
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But it doesn't. What's sometimes alluded to as conspiracy theory on this board is actually the kind of collusion that has been spearheaded by the special interest big money groups, has been going on forever, and is evident to all but the naive and/or uninformed.
 
unclep2k said:
In the P&F era with test tube experiments and very small amounts of energy gain, I can see where measurement error was a big issue. I don't think a junior high science class could mess up the results on the scale of Rossi.
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Nobody is talking about a mess-up. Mostly the assumption here is - reasonably skilled intentional fraud on the side of Rossi, and insufficient skills (or ability to modify the test) to detect it on the side of the observers.

Note that you have to also consider not only the skills of the observers, but the amount of authority to change anything that they have in these demonstrations. In most cases the amount of authority is zero. They are mostly coming as "good friend" guests which can not make "too difficult" request in fear to be kicked out and lose good relations with the demonstrator, and lose their moment in the spot-light.

Let's say you get a greatest genius in the world, put him in the photograph close to the apparatus and than claim that he was present in the demonstration. Does it mean he has _verified_ the setup or _organized_ the test? Not necessarily. It all depends how much leverage he has with the "demonstrator".
Let's say Danish professors would say - "we need to verify absence of trickery
in the lead shielding and thermal insulation by replacing it with our own."
The answer would be "sorry, for security reasons we can not do it".

So what does their presence or absence, or their skill level change? Nothing.
They have no ability to make any difference!

The only test that would be valid is a test completely organized by external
observer using their own equipment and 100% decision rights about any
elements of the setup. In this case, I quite agree, the needed accuracy
is quite achievable by a 5th grade science project level of skill and 500$ worth
of measurement equipment.

Regards,
Yevgen
 
attaboy said:
But it doesn't. What's sometimes alluded to as conspiracy theory on this board is actually the kind of collusion that has been spearheaded by the special interest big money groups, has been going on forever, and is evident to all but the naive and/or uninformed.
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Well... You COULD say that...

If you weren't much concerned with accuracy or completeness...:rolleyes::)

The concept includes MANY other subcategories of belief types (such as: Professional Scientists are in a cabal to suppress anything not part of the "accepted party line" and will ostracize, discredit, ridicule, or worse anyone crossing the "line" ; There are abundant exemplars among the people (read: Trolls) on this subforum, SMM&T.
Big Business / Industry / Big Oil / The Rich / The Joos(Jews) / whatever - Only care about obscene profits and WILL destroy anything - The Environment / The World / The Country / whatever to protect those - many more exemplars here.
The "Religious" want to destroy "secularism" and Our Right to Choose.
The "Godless Heathen Atheists" will Destroy our Children, Women, Morality, Society, Future, whatever.

The thing is, any of these postures sees the "enemy" as a nebulous, faceless, ruthless, Conspiratorial entity hell bent on the annihilation of whoever is postulating the "theory".

Ergo, Conspiracy Theory.;):)

Cheers.

Dave
 
attaboy said:
I don't know what world you live in but being RIGHT doesn't count for a whole lot in some circles. But of course if I say more I'm liable to be accused of conspiracy theory.
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Say, how many people tried to recreate the effect of Fleishmann and Pons', did they do it in secret, huh? I wonder was it more that ten? More than 100? More than 1000?

Your rhetoric shall avail you not.

How many people have had it RIGHT and been denied in recent history?

Get serious and tell me.
 
unclep2k said:
Rossi has certainly been given enough rope to hang himself if he's a fraud. 100 watts in and 10,000 watts out seems like extraordinary evidence, and there could hardly be enough measurement error to erase that gain.
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10,000 watts out from a method that is so unrelaible you can't put error bars on it, what is the margin of error? Fractions or orders of magnitude?

How do you know?
 
attaboy said:
And what will be proved by my answer to that?
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What is the potential margin of error in the method they used?

Hmmmmmm, try to answer that?

1%, 10%, 100%, 1000%

Answer the question, you say that the possible error could not matter, so what level of error is there with the method they used?

Was it a still water bath?
 
attaboy said:
But it doesn't. What's sometimes alluded to as conspiracy theory on this board is actually the kind of collusion that has been spearheaded by the special interest big money groups, has been going on forever, and is evident to all but the naive and/or uninformed.
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In the lest fifty years in physics, do tell the story , and not lies about asbestos and tobacco, where in physics, eh?

Was Guth denied or given a fair heraing?
Was string theory given a fair hearing?

Who in physics was denied a fair hearing in the last fifty years?

Hmmm, what are you talking about.

What is the level of error in the heat measurement Rossi used?
 
jond said:
Why do you suppose none of them came out in support of Steorn after taking a look? Could it be because it was not what it claimed to be?
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Google "the three blind mice" in conjunction with Steorn. You will find that indeed some engineer came in support of steorn results.
 
I've been following this issue for some time.

And based on what I've seen and read, here's my prediction.

Andrea Rossi and his colleagues will be VERY wealthy and VERY famous people VERY soon.

:D
 
maryyugo
June 2nd, 2011 at 1:08 PM
Dear Mr. Rossi,

Thank you again for your patience in responding to questions. There are people who are saying that two E-Cats are being tested independently at this time by universities and that one of those is University of Upsala. This information appears, for example, at peswiki.com. I had thought you said this would not happen until October. Which is correct? And if you are waiting until October, perhaps you would be kind enough to explain why, considering that you have many E-Cats already constructed. Thank you. M.Y.
Andrea Rossi
June 2nd, 2011 at 3:29 PM
Dear Ms Maryyugo:
Before October there will be no public conferences regarding our E-cats. Until then we will make R&D, closed doors, with Bologna and Uppsala Universities.
Warm regards,
A.R.
 
I guess what you guys are really upset about is that Rossi won't let you play with his machine.
 
I agree It looks like he's letting 2 universities look at it. Unless you think they are part of the conspiracy.
 
Um, when he does what he should have done the first time and uses proper methods then I will be able to say :

Way Cool or Oh Too Bad

I am not concerened about fraud or conspiracy, just the measurements.

If they use real methods then the debate ends and the investigation begins.
 
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Two major universities. I suspect they something about how to handle this. Start dancing Dave...it's time to celebrate.
 
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