General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[Matt Giwer]

Their terms are that they drive the Jews into the sea and take the whole land for themselves.

1. The only source of the 'drive into the sea' rhetoric is jewish.

2. Sovereignty is not ownership.

2a. Pardon the stereotype but genius Jews know the difference between sovereignty and ownership yet regularly pretend they do not.

Which leads to my general observation that every time a Jew emigrates to Israel the average IQ of the Diaspora increases because the stupid Jews go to Israel.

See previous joke. A Zionist is a Jew who collects money from another Jew to send a third (stupid) Jew to Israel.

 

[Matt Giwer]

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/5325.htm

It is no secret memri.org is run by the Mossad. It was exposed almost as soon as it appeared. It is also no secret it cherry picks the worst they can find from otherwise unknown people and even then indulges is false translations. That was also exposed shortly after it started.

It is incredible that an intelligent person such as yourself does not know this.

Why do you post as though you are not an intelligent person?

 

[Matt Giwer]

It's sad that people seem to have this ignorant understanding of the situation.

Yes I congratulate on your knowledge of yourself and the aptness of your handle. Johnny, you are what you have named yourself.

 

[Matt Giwer]

Unique, the UN proposed a partition. The Jews accepted, the Arabs didn't. The Arabs chose war, assuming a little Jewish state would be a pushover if they all ganged up. Why compromise when you could just push them all into the sea and take the whole lot?

You are so intelligent yet you post this nonsense. Why?

You know the General Assembly only approved a report and that there was never a binding Security Council resolution involved. And you know the Jewish terrorist organizations immediately began to murder Palestinians in "their" areas and drive them out. You also know Palestinians are not Arabs.

Yet you post nonsense like this. Why? You know better.

 

[Matt Giwer]

We also have a good test of the situation now. Egypt has opened the border crossing. If Hamas is generally interested in peace and not attacking Israel, then there should be no change in fighting and Gaza will have more resources to survive. If they actually do support their own charter, then more rockets will flow into Gaza and rocket attacks will start increasing greatly in the next 6 months or so.

This is an opportunity for Hamas to prove itself. They can use it to help the people of Gaza, or they can use it to attack Israel. Let's keep an eye on this over the next year and see if attacks increase or decrease. The mortar attack from Gaza on the night of the opening didn't help, but we shall see...

As an educated and intelligent person such as yourself knows the Israeli Supreme Court has declared Gaza is under belligerant occupation under the terms of the Hague Convention on Land Warfare, Hague V for short.

As you know that you also know the occupied people have the absolute right to attack the occupying power even to the extent of mass destruction of major cities in fire bombing attacks.

So what are you whining about? Jews CHOSE to live under constant threat and constant lawful attack. Give it a rest.

 

[Matt Giwer]

Exactly. And now Hamas has been welcomed into the PA.

As we all know and at the izziehuggers posted here, before this happened the izzies were claiming they could not negotiate with the PA because it did not represent Gaza. Now that that has been taken away they still object. As my mother used to say, you can't win for losing.

In other words the izzie rhetoric was knowingly and deliberately nothing more than izzie propaganda, izzies lies as usual.

 

[Stout]

It is no secret memri.org is run by the Mossad. It was exposed almost as soon as it appeared. It is also no secret it cherry picks the worst they can find from otherwise unknown people and even then indulges is false translations. That was also exposed shortly after it started.

Got a link to a more "accurate" translation ? Surely, it should be no problem for Arabic speaking members of the activist community to blow this video out of the water and enlighten us as to what Hamas Foreign Liaisons Chief Osama Hamdan really said.

 

[Matt Giwer]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/06/southafrica.israel

Quote:
As far back as 1961, Hendrik Verwoerd, the South African prime minister and architect of the "grand apartheid" vision of the bantustans, saw a parallel. "The Jews took Israel from the Arabs after the Arabs had lived there for a thousand years. Israel, like South Africa, is an apartheid state," he said. It is a view that horrifies and infuriates many Israelis.

............

Desmond Tutu, the former archbishop of Cape Town and chairman of South Africa's truth and reconciliation commission, visited the occupied territories three years ago and described what he found as "much like what happened to us black people in South Africa".

And, in a master stroke of circular reasoning, Israel cited South Africa back when such behavior was acceptable as justification for its discriminatory laws.

Israel and SA were the closest of friends until Apartheid ended. Now Israel demands the same friendship that was only based upon shared racist values.

And Israel has had serious cooperation with India for only two years and those were the years it was ruled by the racist Hindu Party about five years ago.

And in the US it is the racists who still support Israel. If you want to see the alignment look at the view of Islam as related to the presence of "Black Muslims" the Malcom X movement. There is an exact correspondence.

 

[Matt Giwer]

Keep trying to redefine apartheid a_u_p.

Over 1 million Israeli-Arabs, all of whom have the same civil rights as any other Israeli. That is not apartheid.

As a knowledgeable and intelligent person you know that non-Jews in Israel have no greater civil rights than Blacks in the old American South.

As you know that, why do you post to the contrary?

 

[Matt Giwer]

How can it be apartheid then? Oh right, because you're trying to jam a square peg into a round hole.

It is Apartheid when segregation is a matter of law as it is in Israel.

 

[Matt Giwer]

How about you compare/contrast the rights of Israeli Arabs to the rights of black South Africans during apartheid?

How about compare and contrast their rights to Blacks in America?

Can't do that because segregation is still in full force in Israel. Isael would make George Wallace proud.

Israel only looks good when compared to the Anus Mundi.

 

[DC]

As a knowledgeable and intelligent person you know that non-Jews in Israel have no greater civil rights than Blacks in the old American South.

As you know that, why do you post to the contrary?

non jewish israeli have on average more rights than muslim citizens in muslim countries.

 

[DC]

How about compare and contrast their rights to Blacks in America?

Can't do that because segregation is still in full force in Israel. Isael would make George Wallace proud.

Israel only looks good when compared to the Anus Mundi.

what rights do non jewish israelis lack?

 

[Matt Giwer]

Unless he has expressed actual hatred towards Jews, Jewish culture, or Jewish people, you have no right to accuse him or anyone else of anti-Semitism.

Accusing folks who are highly critical of Israeli policies, of anti-Semitism..without actual proof of anti-Semitism, is a vile & pathetic tactic. Save the accusations of anti-Semitism for true bigots, please.

You owe AUP an apology.

First off hatred is an emotion, not rational.

And negative criticism is a rational act which cannot be construed as an emotion simply because it is negative absent high praise surrounding it.

Anyone who dismisses criticism as hatred is simply a stupid asterisk not worth considering as truly human.

 

[Matt Giwer]

Got a link to a more "accurate" translation ? Surely, it should be no problem for Arabic speaking members of the activist community to blow this video out of the water and enlighten us as to what Hamas Foreign Liaisons Chief Osama Hamdan really said.

After observing memri.org is an Israeli government website why would you ask after the issue of accurate translation when it was stipulated the source would be otherwise unknown had not memri.org posted it?

 

[Matt Giwer]

non jewish israeli have on average more rights than muslim citizens in muslim countries.

Everyone agrees Israel is the least stinking turd save for Lebanon which has an older democracy than Israel.

But as Israel claims to be a western country the proper comparison is to another western country such as Greece.

Fact is Israel is not yet up to the standards of Turkey.

 

[DC]

Everyone agrees Israel is the least stinking turd save for Lebanon which has an older democracy than Israel.

But as Israel claims to be a western country the proper comparison is to another western country such as Greece.

Fact is Israel is not yet up to the standards of Turkey.

I would prefer to be a muslim Israeli over a kurdish Turk.

 

[Matt Giwer]

what rights do non jewish israelis lack?

The same rights that Blacks lacked before the civil rights movement. And as it is officially legal for neighborhood councils to rule on the suitability of home buyers it is officially an Apartheid state by definition. In the west it is criminal to even try to control who buys a house where. In Israel it is permitted as black letter law.

Is there anything else you are going to pretend you are ignorant of in matters of Israel? You knew what I posted yet you pretended you did not. Why?

 

[Stout]

After observing memri.org is an Israeli government website why would you ask after the issue of accurate translation when it was stipulated the source would be otherwise unknown had not memri.org posted it?

So what if MEMRI is run by the Mossad ? I don't care.

What I do care about is whether or not they're lying to me, either directly or by omission ?

So, we have an example of a MEMRI translation, the video Virus posted and your claim about MEMRI translations in post #4122. Let's use this video as an example and debunk MEMRI, punch them right in the nose, catch them in the ac of lying and bury them as a source forever.

Now I can't do it as I lack the language skills however, there are dozens of Palestinian organizations listed as supporters of the upcoming Gaza Freedom Flotilla and I'm sure there's someone within one of those groups who would jump at the chance to help you back up your claims.

 

[DC]

The same rights that Blacks lacked before the civil rights movement. And as it is officially legal for neighborhood councils to rule on the suitability of home buyers it is officially an Apartheid state by definition. In the west it is criminal to even try to control who buys a house where. In Israel it is permitted as black letter law.

Is there anything else you are going to pretend you are ignorant of in matters of Israel? You knew what I posted yet you pretended you did not. Why?

Its not apartheid and it is in no way to compare with Black civil rights movements.

so that is one you listed, so thats the only thing they lack? what else? can they vote? can they have representatives in the government? etc etc.