General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[mortimer]

Are you honestly going to tell us that Likud's ideology and agenda play no significant part in Israel's affairs???

*This* is a strawman. I never said that Likud's agenda plays no significant part in determining Israel's policies. I said that, just because Likud is leading the coalition, doesn't mean it's platform automatically becomes Israel's platform.

 

[Thunder]

*This* is a strawman. I never said that Likud's agenda plays no significant part in determining Israel's policies. I said that, just because Likud is leading the coalition, doesn't mean it's platform automatically becomes Israel's platform.

ah, so you admit that Likud's ideas and goals play a major part in the current Israeli govt?

good. I'm glad we can agree.


....now, why is it ok for an Israeli political party, that refuses to acknowledge the possibility of a Palestinian State in the West Bank, to lead the governing coalition? its only a stone's throw away from Hamas' refusal to recognize Israel's right to exist.

 

[Virus]

Netanyahu has said many times that he doesn't oppose a Palestinian state.

 

[mortimer]

ah, so you admit that Likud's ideas and goals play a major part in the current Israeli govt?

Well, I didn't say that either. But since you asked rolleyes, yes, I would say that Likud's platform plays a major part in current Israeli policy.

....now, why is it ok for an Israeli political party, that refuses to acknowledge the possibility of a Palestinian State in the West Bank, to lead the governing coalition?

I would think this would be obvious. Because Israel's democratic process put them there. Do you suggest this shouldn't be allowed?

its only a stone's throw away from Hamas' refusal to recognize Israel's right to exist.

I would say it's much further than a stone's throw.

 

[Thunder]

Well, I didn't say that either. But since you asked rolleyes, yes, I would say that Likud's platform plays a major part in current Israeli policy.

I would think this would be obvious. Because Israel's democratic process put them there. Do you suggest this shouldn't be allowed?

Israel refuses to participate in peace talks with Hamas part of the coalition government, partially due to their refusal to recognize Israel's right to exist.

By that logic, the Palestinians should have the right to refuse to negotiate with Israel, until Likud recognizes the right of a Palestinian state in the West Bank, no?

 

[mortimer]

Israel refuses to participate in peace talks with Hamas part of the coalition government, partially due to their refusal to recognize Israel's right to exist.

By that logic, the Palestinians should have the right to refuse to negotiate with Israel, until Likud recognizes the right of a Palestinian state in the West Bank, no?

Sure, they have that right. They could refuse to negotiate because they don't like the color of Bibi's necktie, if they wanted to. But IMO it would be in their best interest, if they indeed want their own state, to do whatever they can to begin negotiating.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

....now, why is it ok for an Israeli political party, that refuses to acknowledge the possibility of a Palestinian State in the West Bank, to lead the governing coalition? its only a stone's throw away from Hamas' refusal to recognize Israel's right to exist.

Lying for Hamas again, Parky?

The Hamas charter pledges the extermination of the jews and promises perpetual war until non-muslims everywhere agree to accept second class citizens status.

There is nothing even remotely close to Hamas's sociopathic dribble in Likuds platform.

 

[Thunder]

Lying for Hamas again, Parky?

baseless accusations of lying are not cool, my friend.

please counter my arguments with arguments of your own, and do not make false-accusations against me.

 

[bikerdruid]

With Israeli Arabs? I really doubt it. Perhaps you can paraphrase some for me, since the thunderous entity is on my ignore list.

thunder said,

The situation in the West Bank is most certainly one of Apartheid, no two ways about it.

There are seperate roads for Israelis and Palestinians.

The Israeli Knesset makes decisions that effect the lives of the Palestinians on a daily basis, but the Palestinians have no right to vote for the Knesset members.

Israel has confiscated thousands of acres of Palestinian property since 1967, and used it for homes that Palestinians cannot live in.

Israel has given Permanent Residency status to Palestinians in East Jerusalem, but has covertly revoked this status from thousands of the people, which is illegal under international law.

The Israeli police are known for lending a blind eye towards violence by Israeli settlers against Palestinians and their property.

Surely, the situation in the West Bank is one of Apartheid. One highly discriminatory rule for Palestinians...with a highly favorable rule for illegal Israeli settlers.

 

[Thunder]

The situation in the West Bank is most certainly one of Apartheid, no two ways about it.

There are seperate roads for Israelis and Palestinians.

The Israeli Knesset makes decisions that effect the lives of the Palestinians on a daily basis, but the Palestinians have no right to vote for the Knesset members.

Israel has confiscated thousands of acres of Palestinian property since 1967, and used it for homes that Palestinians cannot live in.

Israel has given Permanent Residency status to Palestinians in East Jerusalem, but has covertly revoked this status from thousands of the people, which is illegal under international law.

The Israeli police are known for lending a blind eye towards violence by Israeli settlers against Palestinians and their property.

Surely, the situation in the West Bank is one of Apartheid. One highly discriminatory rule for Palestinians...with a highly favorable rule for illegal Israeli settlers.

hmm..why is it that the opponents of peace & justice have refused to refute even ONE of my claims of Apartheid in the West Bank?

I wonder.. Instead we have name calling, baseless accusations, and childish character assassination.

 

[mortimer]

hmm..why is it that the opponents of peace & justice have refused to refute even ONE of my claims of Apartheid in the West Bank?

I wonder.. Instead we have name calling, baseless accusations, and childish character assassination.

I will counter all of those with this: Apartheid, by definition and at it's heart, is racial discrimination. None of these listed (whether they're factual or not) constitutes racial discrimination.

 

[bikerdruid]

hmm..why is it that the opponents of peace & justice have refused to refute even ONE of my claims of Apartheid in the West Bank?

I wonder.. Instead we have name calling, baseless accusations, and childish character assassination.

i think some of them don't read your posts.
i think they avoid the truth.

 

[WildCat]

thunder said,

The situation in the West Bank

I asked for evidence that Israeli Arabs live comparable to blacks in apartheid South Africa, not hostile foreign Arabs.

Why don't you just admit Israeli Arabs have the rights of other Israeli citizens?

 

[JudeBrando]

Benjamin Netanyahu

A Place Among The Nations

http://www.amazon.com/Place-Among-N...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1306719854&sr=1-1

My highest recommendation.

 

[Thunder]

Why don't you just admit Israeli Arabs have the rights of other Israeli citizens?

because it is a lie. Israeli Arabs are treated very differently than Israeli Jews.

I have provided support for this argument, and for some reason NO ONE will challenge it.

 

[Thunder]

I will counter all of those with this: Apartheid, by definition and at it's heart, is racial discrimination. None of these listed (whether they're factual or not) constitutes racial discrimination.

wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_apartheid#Allegations_of_apartheid_in_Israel_and_the_occupied_territories

Such accusations have recently been picked up in documents of the United Nations. In a 2007 report, United Nations Special Rapporteur for Palestine John Dugard stated that "elements of the Israeli occupation constitute forms of colonialism and of apartheid, which are contrary to international law" and suggested that the "legal consequences of a prolonged occupation with features of colonialism and apartheid" be put to the International Court of Justice.[20]

South Africa's statutory research agency the Human Sciences Research Council (HSRC) stated in a 2009 report that "the State of Israel exercises control in the [Occupied Palestinian Territories] with the purpose of maintaining a system of domination by Jews over Palestinians and that this system constitutes a breach of the prohibition of apartheid."[21] Based on these findings, Richard Falk, the successor of John Dugard as UN Special Rapporteur for Palestine has detailed some of the indicators of apartheid in the occupied territories....


the article includes many examples of ethnic & religious discrimination that takes place in Israel & the West Bank, which makes the accusation of Apartheid, one with serious evidence backing it up.

 

[Thunder]

Benjamin Netanyahu

A Place Among The Nations

http://www.amazon.com/Place-Among-N...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1306719854&sr=1-1

My highest recommendation.

Bibi Netanyahu: a former terrorist who honors terrorists.

 

[bikerdruid]

Why don't you just admit Israeli Arabs have the rights of other Israeli citizens?

because it is simply not true.
for one thing, they are routinely evicted from their homes and farms to make room for israeli 'settlers'.

 

[The Fool]

Why don't you just admit Israeli Arabs have the rights of other Israeli citizens?

not that there is much point in asking but are you claiming that every right that Jews have in Israel...arabs have the same right? That they are equal in rights in the state of Israel?

 

[Thunder]

how can one argue that Israeli Arabs have the same rights as Israeli Jews, when we ALL know that folks who immigrate to Israeli via Aliyah have all sorts of benefits that non-Aliyah immigrants do not have, let alone citizens..and ONLY Jews can immigrate by Aliyah?

how can one say Arabs and Jews in Israel are treated the same, when we know their is soo much housing, education, employment, benefits, legal rights, and other discrimination against them?

is this an issue of total ignorance on the issue...willfull denial...or outright lying?