Merged Cold Fusion Claims

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Dave: That assumes some honesty on the part of the heat suppliers. A pound of ice water would give the same result as a pound of steam. Except for customer satisfaction.

Heh heh.

Point taken...

In the case of the university, though, everybody's paychecks were signed by the same person.

Besides, these folks were METHODISTS -- good Christians -- if they can't be trusted, who can?:D

Cheers,

Dave
 
OK: It's nonsense. It's the sort of thing you would write in a sci-fi screenplay when you need Mr. Scott to explain the engines to Kirk. You don't care how the engines work, but you have a glossary of quantum-y sounding physics words, which you mix and match until it sounds good.

There is not much to even comment on. Almost every sentence is a bluntly ignorant statement contradicting all known quantum mechanics.

Just to pick a random example, the author "realizes" that he "needs to explain" how 511keV gamma rays don't escape from the catalyst. He looks in his jargon-glossary and finds that the "photoelectric effect", whatever that is, is something that can stop gamma rays. Done! He declares that the photoelectric effect explains why the gamma rays are not escaping. (Nope, sorry, the photoelectric effect is one of the things we already knew about ... that contributes a little to the fact that an inch-thick wall of lead can stop 511 keV gamma rays. It's one of the things we already knew about that does not prevent 511 keV gamma rays from escaping from a hypothetical "e-cat" that's actually undergoing fusion.)

This is like trying to sell someone a car with no brakes. "I read about this thing called FRICTION. Friction stops things gradually. I think that's how the car can stop without brakes." Uh, yeah, we knew about friction already when we were deciding to build normal cars with brakes.

I registered yesterday specifically so that I could complain about this comment.

I happened to be browsing this thread just after the link to the paper was posted, and noticed that you declared it absolute nonsense 7 minutes later. You then edited it to make further derogatory statements.

I also participate in the Ekstrom and Polywell forums (and if you don't know what I'm talking about then why are you commenting here?); they at least have and are taking proper time-out to study it properly.

If there's any example of flim-flam then it's coming from you...
 
I registered yesterday specifically so that I could complain about this comment.

I happened to be browsing this thread just after the link to the paper was posted, and noticed that you declared it absolute nonsense 7 minutes later. You then edited it to make further derogatory statements.

I also participate in the Ekstrom and Polywell forums (and if you don't know what I'm talking about then why are you commenting here?); they at least have and are taking proper time-out to study it properly.

If there's any example of flim-flam then it's coming from you...

Yeah right, so how is the photo electric effect pertinent to why those gamma rays are not pouring out?

Care to address teh argument or just how fast someone who knows something about something can call it nonsense.
 
Yeah right, so how is the photo electric effect pertinent to why those gamma rays are not pouring out?

Care to address teh argument or just how fast someone who knows something about something can call it nonsense.

Sighs. Heavily.
 
I happened to be browsing this thread just after the link to the paper was posted, and noticed that you declared it absolute nonsense 7 minutes later.

Ahem. It was seventeen minutes.

A good rule of thumb in teaching: it's really quick to grade an A+ exam. ("correct; correct; correct; correct. Done.") It's really, really slow to assign a B or C. ("Is part (b) just repeating the mistake in part (a), which would be -1 point, or making a whole new mistake which would be -2?") Coming full circle, grading an F exam is really fast.

Your blog post, IMO, consists of elementary and obvious material, all done obviously wrong.

You then edited it to make further derogatory statements.

Guilty as charged!
 
One note; A Polywell is a version of the Farnsworth-Hirsch Fusor which attempts to get around the fatal flaw of the Fusor, namely that the grid electrodes are destroyed by any large amount of fusion. As such, it is not cold fusion, but is electrostatic inertial confinement fusion.

Just in case anybody interpreted Aam's comments as indicating that the Polywell is some sort of CNF woo.

It's still a long shot as to whether it will ever reach break-even or whether it will find some industrial use as a neutron source, but unlike EVERY CNF scheme yet devised, fusion verifiably happens in a Fusor.
 
I registered yesterday specifically so that I could complain about this comment.
Isn't there more interesting stuff to talk about, than meta-discussion about how long someone took to make a post? It's sort of borderline ad hominem argument, IMO: trying to handwave away Ben's statements without addressing their substance. It would be much more fun to discuss the substance, wouldn't it?

The article in question says, essentially, that the process is Ni-62 -> Cu-63, and Ni-64 -> Cu-65 by means of fusion with hydrogen. It seems to dismiss all of the other Ni isotopes as irrelevant because they become unstable Cu isotopes that decay.

So, I have three questions:

(1) Why isn't the "used" Ni radioactive? Does this process magically touch only Ni-62 and Ni-64 somehow?

(2) How did the "used" powder get 10% Cu, when Ni-62 and Ni-64 together are less than 5% of Ni? It seems that this rules out Ni-62 and Ni-64 as being the only reactants, but that leaves us at question (1) above.

(3) Why did the isotope abundances of the "used" Ni, and of the Cu within it, match natural abundances? It's exactly what you'd expect if the "used" powder was faked up by mixing Ni and Cu, but seems unlikely to be what's left after real fusion.
 
Sighs. Heavily.

So any argument about the argument or just a false dichotomy that an assesment can not be made in a short time.

Feels free to sigh, it is free. :D

So is the photoelectric effect a reason to not see the gamma rays, that would be a really cool sheilding technology.

So someone makes a blog post...
 
Even better a blog post...

alleged to be from

Christos Stremmenos


who is alleged (in other places) to be a Professor at University of Bologna

http://search.unibo.it/CMSUniboWeb/...:Cristos++cognome:Stremmenos&tab=PersonePanel

Except it is hard to find anything about him there is this:

"Christos STREMMENOS is a retired Professor of the Department of
Physical and Inorganic Chemistry of the Faculty of Industrial
Chemistry in the University of Bologna. He has served as Ambassador
of Greece in Italy (1982-1987), and has been awarded the title of
“Cavaliere di Gran Croce al Merito” of the Italian Republic. In the
University of Bologna, as well as in the Polytechnic of Athens
(National Technical University of Athens) he has taught Molecular
Spectroscopy, Applied Spectroscopy and Photochemistry. His research
work, from the beginning of his academic career until the assumption
of his duties as Greek Ambassador, was in the field of spectroscopy of
both solid and liquid crystals and he studied their static and dynamic
structure by employing quantum mechanics criteria. After his mission
at the Embassy of Greece in Rome was completed, he tried to reproduce
the Fleishmann-Pons Experiment, however he did not achieve reliable
results and thus he started to work in the field of nuclear reactions
between nickel and hydrogen or deuterium."

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg45913.html

So maybe he stopped understanding physics is 1982?
 
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Aam:

Care to defend this nonsense?
"These electrons, together with the “naked nuclei” of hydrogen (protons), form a freely moving cloud of charges (plasma at a degenerate state) inside the crystalline lattice."

Please do because then it is followed by this whopper
"That cloud is being defused through the surface to the polycrystallic mass of the metal, covering empty spaces of the non-canonical structure of the crystalline lattice, as well as the tetrahedral and octahedral spaces between the molecules. As a consequence, the crystalline structure is covered by “delocalized plasma” (degenerate state), which is consisted by protons, electrons produced by the “absorbed atoms” of hydrogen, as well as by the electrons of the chemical valence of Nickel of the lattice, at different energy states (Fermi’s band). "

Obviously the author doesn't use the word 'plasma' like any one else, what word do you think he should have used?

I think the correct word is phlogiston or fairies.

It is nonsense which procedes for another page before the crap about the photo-electric effect.

So sigh all you want, it is nonsense.
 
I can continue commenting on your document, if you like, given that enough time has elapsed that it's no longer worth focusing on.

According to the Uncertainty Principle of Heisenberg, the temporary atoms of hydrogen will cover during that small time interval Δt, a wide range of energies ΔΕ, which means also a wide range of atomic diameters of temporary atoms, satisfying the De Broglie’s condition. A percentage of them (at fist a very small one) might have diameters smaller than 10ˆ-14 m, which is the maximum active radius of nuclear reactions. In that case, the chargeless temporary atoms, or mini-atoms, of hydrogen together with high energy but short lived electrons, are being statistically trapped by the Nickel nuclei at a time of 10ˆ-20 sec. In other words, the high speed of nuclear reactions permits the fusion of short lived but neutral mini-atoms of hydrogen with the Nickel nuclei of the crystalline lattice, as during that short time interval the Coulomb barrier (of the specific hydrogen mini-atom) does not exist.

That is a handwaving guess about the semi-classical, semi-quantum-mechanical behavior of protons and electrons. You ignore the fact that actual quantum mechanics (the version that uses the Schrodinger Equation to make explicit calculations and predictions) has now been known for most of a century, and the effects that you guess are there---formation of mini-atoms---are simply not. You made them up, but you did not (and you will not) find them as as solution to Schrodinger's Equation.

Your attempt at a "logical" walk through the Uncertainty Principle is also nonsense. Note that the uncertainty principle---including the behavior of electrons---is already used in the tunnelling calculations that make fusion possible to begin with. Among other problems: look at the funny state that you have "lasting for 10^-20 seconds" That state, you say, spontaneously forms from the hydrogen already in the nickel lattice, and then (you say) is small enough to fuse. Well, supposing it is small enough---it still has to get from a lattice interstitial site to a nickel nucleus in order to fuse. Too bad---the nickel nuclei are 10^-10 meters away, and moving at the speed of light your state could only travel 3x10^-12 meters. Oops!

Nearby electrons, and their charge-screening effects, do have an impact on fusion rates, when compared with unscreened proton-proton fusion. This is called the "Salpeter correction"; in an environment like the center of the Sun (with a 10x higher electron density than mere nickel) the presence of those electrons enhances fusion rates by ~1%. Remember the mainstream calculations that say that the tunneling-fusion rate should be 10^-40 or whatever? That means that with electron corrections the tunneling-fusion rate is 1.01 x 10^-40. That includes any sort of hydrino-like states, off-shell electrons, etc., whose importance you merely guessed at.

Regarding the "absence of radiation", both the photoelectric effect and the Compton effect have finite, known cross sections. It is well known theoretically, and experimentally observed for ~100 years now, that 511 keV gamma rays can easily pass through several centimeters of nickel. The photoelectric effect and Compton scattering occur rarely on a per-atom basis; the average gamma ray will zoom right past hundreds of millions of atoms before doing anything at all. That necessarily includes the (very likely) possibility of escaping from the apparatus altogether.

If your explanation is true, it would be easy to test. Take an ordinary 511 keV gamma source (say 22Na) and see whether nickel---or hydrogen-soaked nickel, or hot nickel, or whatever---has an unprecedented ability to absorb them. (It won't. As it so happens I've done plenty of work with actual radioactive sources embedded in nickel, and gamma rays get out just fine.)

The funny thing about your blog post is that it seems to invalidate anything Rossi has tried to patent---his "special catalyst" for example. No, your blog post says pseudoatoms and weird-Boltzmann-tails are generic property of hydrogen in metals. (You didn't use any nickel-specific properties whatsoever in your reasoning.) The Rossi result, if it were one, is not "hydrogen tunnels easily into metal nuclei because that's how quantum mechanics works"; if that were true, lots of ordinary industrial machinery would have melted down and turned into copper by accident. The Rossi result is supposed to be "hydrogen tunnels into metal nuclei only in the presence of my special patentable catalyst/alloy/etc." which is notably unnecessary in your attempt to reason things through.

I wouldn't worry too much about this point, because there are so many other problems with your reasoning. But still!
 
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One note; A Polywell is a version of the Farnsworth-Hirsch Fusor which attempts to get around the fatal flaw of the Fusor, namely that the grid electrodes are destroyed by any large amount of fusion. As such, it is not cold fusion, but is electrostatic inertial confinement fusion.

Just in case anybody interpreted Aam's comments as indicating that the Polywell is some sort of CNF woo.

It's still a long shot as to whether it will ever reach break-even or whether it will find some industrial use as a neutron source, but unlike EVERY CNF scheme yet devised, fusion verifiably happens in a Fusor.

I guess that people who think Polywell is Cold Fusion, shouldnt even be taking part of this thread.

I think Polywell is much more capable of achievent net fusion before other devices, like the money devourator Tokamak... the US Navy is funding the Polywell and a lot has been done with a fraction of the money of the Tokamak, and so far, all steps have been reached. The current version is the 8th, and it has followed the scalability predicted by the late Dr Bussard. Its quite possible that the construction of a 7m wide Polywell, capable of producing net energy of about 100 MW, for demonstration (that means it wont produce electricity) will start to be built still this year.

Btw, the Talk-Polywell Forum has a very long, over 100 pages thread about Rossi´s LERN. Since there are lots of people with knowledge of physics and fusion there, its really interesting. (most people think its a scam, of course, but there are some defenders there that also know a good bit of science)
 
This has always been the problem with lenr. It isn't that there aren't enough theories how it works, there are way too many theories how it works. It just isn't understood.
 
Oooh, ooh me Sir, pick me!

Argument from incredulity or failure of imagination. Just because you can't think of a way that the device might be a fake, doesn't mean one doesn't exist.

Can I take the dunce's cap off and go back to my desk now?
 
Can I take the dunce's cap off and go back to my desk now?

You may--after you or someone else answers this (knowing the answer would be speculative):

Is this most likely intentional fraud? Or is it possible that these guys really believe they're on to something, and just don't understand enough about the science?

I don't understand all the principles involved here, but folks can stubbornly hold on to irrational scienc-y stuff in biology and medicine, something I understand a bit better.
 
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