Vaccine/autism CT discussion

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Travis said:
Please explain how any of those on your list are not solid citizens. Why is Big Pharma not a solid citizen for example?
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Political influence in the U.S.

The top twenty pharmaceutical companies and their two trade groups, Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) and Biotechnology Industry Organization, lobbied on at least 1,600 pieces of legislation between 1998 and 2004. According to the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics, pharmaceutical companies spent $900 million on lobbying between 1998 and 2005, more than any other industry. During the same period, they donated $89.9 million to federal candidates and political parties, giving approximately three times as much to Republicans as to Democrats.[1] According to the Center for Public Integrity, from January 2005 through June 2006 alone, the pharmaceutical industry spent approximately $182 million on Federal lobbying.[2] The industry has 1,274 registered lobbyists in Washington D.C. [3]

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Snipped for compliance with Rule 4. Do not copy and paste lengthy tracts of text available elsewhere. Instead, just post a short quote and a link to the other source.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_lobby

Is that enough Travis?
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If we declare every industry that spends money on lobbying to be "evil" pretty much everything will be "evil."

So no, that's not enough.
 
Using anti-vaxxer standard data analysis methods, I have come to the following conclusion:

Autism rates increased after the removal of thimiserol from children's vaccines, therefore thimiserol must prevent autism in vaccinated children.
 
Alareth said:
Using anti-vaxxer standard data analysis methods, I have come to the following conclusion:

Autism rates increased after the removal of thimiserol from children's vaccines, therefore thimiserol must prevent autism in vaccinated children.
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Keep that up and you'll never eat with grownups on Thanksgiving.

Do you really think decisions concerning the health of Americans should be dictated by lobbyists whose concern is profit. Is there a counterbalancing patient lobby?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Do you really think decisions concerning the health of Americans should be dictated by lobbyists whose concern is profit.
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So you've switched your stance from 'vaccines are evil because they cause autism' to 'vaccines are evil because a company wants to make a profit.'

While living in the idealist universe you've concocted in your head would be wonderful, we live in a capitalist society. Almost every company is motivated by profit. This is not enough reason to dismiss a product, especially one that makes essentially nothing when compared to major medications like say...Viagra. I don't even think it's possible to run a pharmaceutical company without seeking to make profits, how else are you going to fund research and development costs?

Is there a counterbalancing patient lobby?
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People dying/not dying tends to make a very strong counterbalance to pharmaceutical lobbying. And then there's you know...the FDA?
 
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Clayton Moore said:
Do you really think decisions concerning the health of Americans should be dictated by lobbyists whose concern is profit. Is there a counterbalancing patient lobby?
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I'm in Britain, where decisions on healthcare provision are made by NICE, a body set up to provide cost-effectiveness in the NHS; in other words, to minimise the cost of healthcare, an aim diametrically opposed to the maximising of profit to pharmaceutical companies. And yet NICE backs MMR vaccination. It's almost as if it had nothing to do with the profits of pharmaceutical companies, and was only a matter of what's the most effective way of maximising the health of the population. But that can't really be true, can it?

Dave
 
excaza said:
So you've switched your stance from 'vaccines are evil because they cause autism' to 'vaccines are evil because a company wants to make a profit.' Decisions concerning the health of Americans isn't dictated by lobbyists, it's dictated by experimentation.

While living in the idealist universe you've concocted in your head would be wonderful, we live in a capitalist society. Almost every company is motivated by profit. This is not enough reason to dismiss a product, especially one that makes essentially nothing when compared to major medications like say...Viagra. I don't even think it's possible to run a pharmaceutical company without seeking to make profits, how else are you going to fund research and development costs?


People dying/not dying tends to make a very strong counterbalance to pharmaceutical lobbying. And then there's you know...the FDA?
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Try and focus. The reason there over a thousand lobbyists isn't because isn't because their widgit is better than the other widgit. They are telling the government what should be mandatory. They are convincing the FDA that the drugs and vaccines they sell are safe. They even convinced the government to set up a court that was/is the only place persons can take legal action against vaccine makers.

4 or 5 times a day I see law firms virtually ambulance chase on TV asking for perspective victims of specific drugs that, of course, have been approved by the FDA per documentation from big pharma. I live in a small town and I can walk, less than a mile to THREE CVS drug marts and a Rite Aid. Stretch it to two miles and 2 Wallgreens and 2 or 3 others kick in.


Quote:
The top twenty pharmaceutical companies and their two trade groups, Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) and Biotechnology Industry Organization, lobbied on at least 1,600 pieces of legislation between 1998 and 2004. According to the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics, pharmaceutical companies spent $900 million on lobbying between 1998 and 2005, more than any other industry. During the same period, they donated $89.9 million to federal candidates and political parties, giving approximately three times as much to Republicans as to Democrats.[1] According to the Center for Public Integrity, from January 2005 through June 2006 alone, the pharmaceutical industry spent approximately $182 million on Federal lobbying.[2] The industry has 1,274 registered lobbyists in Washington D.C. [3]

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Snipped for compliance with Rule 4. Do not copy and paste large tracts of text from other sources. Instead, just cite a short quote and post a link to the other source.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL


Realizing of course that the Democrats get money, just not as much. They still owe Big Pharma.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_lobby
 
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Clayton Moore said:
4 or 5 times a day I see law firms virtually ambulance chase on TV asking for perspective victims of specific drugs that, of course, have been approved by the FDA per documentation from big pharma.
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Given the fact that every human being has a slightly different physiology, it's not surprising that some people have an adverse reaction to any given drug. Add to that the willingness to sue based on post hoc, propter ergo hoc reasoning in an extremely litigious society, and the lawsuits need no explanation.

There are risks to taking perscription medication. In general, the risk isn't quite as high as in crossing the street, but it is slightly more than in drinking a glass of water.

It's in the best interests of lawyers and the media to exaggerate these risks.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Try and focus. The reason there over a thousand lobbyists isn't because isn't because their widgit is better than the other widgit. They are telling the government what should be mandatory.
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And yet vaccines are not mandatory.

They are convincing the FDA that the drugs and vaccines they sell are safe.
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Actually, no. They have to go through a lot of trials and work to convince the FDA that a drug is safe. It has been argued that the FDA's requirements are so stringent that if asprin were developed today it would never make it to the market.

They even convinced the government to set up a court that was/is the only place persons can take legal action against vaccine makers.
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And the government thought it was a good idea because the lawsuit happy nature of people vs. the low profitability of vaccines would mean that the pharma companies would just drop the whole line - and then we'd have a problem.

4 or 5 times a day I see law firms virtually ambulance chase on TV asking for perspective victims of specific drugs that, of course, have been approved by the FDA per documentation from big pharma.
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The FDA's testing is not perfect, and a lot of drugs may turn out to have long-term effects. Go to Europe some time and look at their drug approval standards. A few greedy lawyers and a couple of drugs that turned out to have long term side effects in a tiny fraction of the population does not mean vaccines are causing autism.

I live in a small town and I can walk, less than a mile to THREE CVS drug marts and a Rite Aid. Stretch it to two miles and 2 Wallgreens and 2 or 3 others kick in.
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This is the USA, our drug stores sell a lot of things besides prescription and over-the-counter drugs.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Try and focus.
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So you tell me to focus, then talk about 3 different topics?

The reason there over a thousand lobbyists isn't because isn't because their widgit is better than the other widgit. They are telling the government what should be mandatory. They are convincing the FDA that the drugs and vaccines they sell are safe.
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Vaccines aren't mandatory.

They even convinced the government to set up a court that was/is the only place persons can take legal action against vaccine makers.
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Do you actually understand why this was set up? Or are you just going to attribute it to some massive conspiracy to make all Americans autistic?

4 or 5 times a day I see law firms virtually ambulance chase on TV asking for perspective victims of specific drugs that, of course, have been approved by the FDA per documentation from big pharma.
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Since every person is different, it's almost impossible not to eventually have someone who has an adverse reaction to a drug. This is why all medications have documented side effects. How many of those ambulance chasers actually win anything?

I live in a small town and I can walk, less than a mile to THREE CVS drug marts and a Rite Aid. Stretch it to two miles and 2 Wallgreens and 2 or 3 others kick in.
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Congratulations? What does that have to do with...anything?
 
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If the FDA is really in their pocket then why does the FDA refuse to license so many of the expensive drugs they produce?

You do realize that one of the reasons that prescriptions cost a lot of money is because the companies have to try and recoup all the money they spend on drugs the FDA refuses to approve.
 
Clayton Moore said:
They are if you want your child to attend school.
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Seems reasonable to me, since most schools would want to reduce any potential risk of bringing together hundreds, if not thousands, of children together in a relatively small space.

The alternative is homeschooling, which as I understand it, is still a perfectly viable and legal alternative in the US.
 
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