Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Woah woah woah. Are we to believe the Washington Post failed to read all of Kermit's super relevant articles, with pictures to boot? For shame! You would think all these papers would consult True Justice, the most heavily visited website of all time.


Yes: it is indeed a mystery why the mainstream media haven't taken on board the lengthy, increasingly-irrational rambling rants of an angry, over-invested, small green amphibian.

And it's far from surprising that a website's owner who bizarrely refers to himself frequently in the plural ("we") is unnaturally obsessed with charting whether his site is 431,870th most-visited on the web or 1,663,980th most-visited. I wonder if he's issued libel proceedings against Bruce yet though (I'm guessing I know the answer already).
 
Interesting.

Speaking of the "same fingers in the ears approach"........

Did these individuals learn how to 'cover their ears' per chance when they read Amanda's voluntary written 'gift' to her questioners, detailing how she 'blocked her ears in the Kitchen as she said she heard Meredith screaming while being attacked by Patrick. in the next room ??


Oh, hi stipilot!

No. Rational observers evaluated that written statement in the context of how and when it was written. Have you read it? How often does Knox write of being confused: This is how the "gift" begins:
This is very strange, I know, but really what has happened is as confusing to me as it is to everyone else. I have been told there is hard evidence saying that I was at the place of the murder of my friend when it happened. This, I want to confirm, is something that to me, if asked a few days ago, would be impossible.

Does that sound like a firm confession and accusation to anyone with any reasoning powers and an open mind?

She goes on to state many times that she's incredibly confused about everything, and writes the following:

However, it was under this pressure and after many hours of confusion that my mind came up with these answers. In my mind I saw Patrik in flashes of blurred images. I saw him near the basketball court. I saw him at my front door. I saw myself cowering in the kitchen with my hands over my ears because in my head I could hear Meredith screaming. But I've said this many times so as to make myself clear: these things seem unreal to me, like a dream, and I am unsure if they are real things that happened or are just dreams my head has made to try to answer the questions in my head and the questions I am being asked.

and:

I also know that the fact that I can't fully recall the events that I claim took place at Raffaele's home during the time that Meredith was murdered is incriminating. And I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that could have taken place in my home with Patrik, but I want to make very clear that these events seem more unreal to me that what I said before, that I stayed at Raffaele's house.


Here's the entire text of the "gift", just to refresh your memory.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1570225/Transcript-of-Amanda-Knoxs-note.html

In my opinion, anyone who interprets this statement as any sort of "confession" or "accusation" is either a fool or in the severe grips of confirmation bias.


And PS: It's written "perchance". Or if you also write "perhaps" as "per haps", then my apologies for failing to take account of your personal spelling idiosyncrasies.
 
I wonder if that ain't one of the reasons Raffaele chose not to testify.

People who testify against Mignini get charged with calunnia. Hadn't you noticed?

Do you suppose Amanda might have discussed this subject---the reason for quitting her job--- with her boyfriend? Had he said Amanda quit because she thought Patrick was the murderer.........just how "internalized" by the cops would her accusation appear?

Let's get this straight: you think Amanda got the idea on her own that Patrick was the murderer, and told Raffaele. So Raffaele declined to testify because it would undermine her claim that the police fed the story to her. Have you got the slightest basis in fact for this?

And if you think Amanda's testimony in court is pure gospel truth, you should watch the video on YouTube (if still there) of Amanda explaining to the judges the meaning of "Foxy Knoxy." Not relevant to her guilt or innocence, but she's playing stupid.

So to support your innuendo that Amanda wasn't truthful in court, I'm supposed to hunt out a video that might or might not be available. Since I haven't found it, maybe I will just take your word for it that it doesn't show her in a good light. I don't think so.

And I've never described Amanda's testimony as "pure gospel truth"; however, I do say that there is far more reason to doubt the word of the Perugia police and prosecutor than there is to doubt Amanda Knox.
 
Woah woah woah. Are we to believe the Washington Post failed to read all of Kermit's super relevant articles, with pictures to boot? For shame! You would think all these papers would consult True Justice, the most heavily visited website of all time.

Kermit's articles don't just contain pictures, they contain extremely relevant pictures such as Muammar Gaddafi. We all know that Gaddafi has been front and center in the CPJ scandal!
 
Interesting.

Speaking of the "same fingers in the ears approach........"

Did these individuals learn how to 'cover their ears' per chance when they read Amanda's voluntary written 'gift' to her questioners, detailing how she 'blocked her ears' in the Kitchen as she said she heard Meredith screaming while being attacked by Patrick. in the bedroom ??

Why did you take your rant from .org to .net? Did you catch a little heat from Pete for your wonderful ground report disaster? Keep up the good work, you prove our point over and over again.
 
Yes: it is indeed a mystery why the mainstream media haven't taken on board the lengthy, increasingly-irrational rambling rants of an angry, over-invested, small green amphibian.

And it's far from surprising that a website's owner who bizarrely refers to himself frequently in the plural ("we") is unnaturally obsessed with charting whether his site is 431,870th most-visited on the web or 1,663,980th most-visited. I wonder if he's issued libel proceedings against Bruce yet though (I'm guessing I know the answer already).

I would welcome "libel proceedings" from Q. Hundreds of emails await public consumption. Q can just say the word. The only thing I would welcome more would be a defamation lawsuit from Mignini. I am really jealous of Joe Cottonwood and Steve Shay!
 
Dr. Hampikian on gut feelings

Tina Jensen’s article about Greg Hampikian has two especially good quotes:

“‘It's looking in an area of the results where the machine's really not accurate unless you've specially trained your machines to work in that range - and I don't think there's evidence that they've done that in this case.’ His reports weren't allowed in the trial because the judge didn't want foreign forensic reports. But the lawyers were able to use the unique points from their reports in their arguments. That helped to result in the new DNA testing that the appeals court judge has ordered.”

“‘It's a pretty simple story. If they waited for the DNA first, they would have solved this quickly without any kind of mess.’ Instead, he says the investigators stuck to their gut feelings. ‘Nothing wrong with a gut feeling--for an investigation. But when the DNA speaks, you've got to put away the gut feeling if it's wrong. They didn't do that in this case.’”
 
Here is the quote from a Google spokesperson: "After receiving an Italian court order, we have been forced to take down this blog. In an effort to protect free expression, we take care to narrow all court takedown orders. Unfortunately, in this case, we would face criminal noncompliance charges if we refuse to comply." One hopes that this ends speculation elsewhere that Frank Sfarzo took down Perugia-Shock.

_________________

Corporate cowardice. (And apparently anonymous too!) So Google has been forced, huh? "We would face criminal noncompliance charges"....oh my, Google can't face that to defend some vaporous principle like freedom of expression. Instead, let some impoverished journalist in Perugia face criminal charges--- alone--- if he's so fond of principles.

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_________________

Corporate cowardice. (And apparently anonymous too!) So Google has been forced, huh? "We would face criminal noncompliance charges"....oh my, Google can't face that to defend some vaporous principle like freedom of expression. Instead, let some impoverished journalist in Perugia face criminal charges--- alone--- if he's so fond of principles.

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I appear to have lost track of what point you are trying to make. Could you clarify?
 
Why did you take your rant from .org to .net? Did you catch a little heat from Pete for your wonderful ground report disaster? Keep up the good work, you prove our point over and over again.

True, what you say. Sometimes the most convincing people are the antagonists with the weak arguments. They, by their weak arguments, make the opposite point they think they are making. You could say the same of Mignini too. Trouble is, their choir/cult believes the BS.

On the other hand, it is sometimes a waste of time to use logic to convince those that do not know logic or know only broken logic (frequently those with low IQ's). However, the low IQ people seem to band together and believe that the majority determines truth and rightness.

I spent 15 years on internet forums trying to logically convince one person of a couple points using logic and fact. I wasted my time. He never changed. However, I did. I decided never to waste my time doing that again. Then I decided that a good antagonist makes a good story.

Sometimes too, the antagonist helps you get your ideas straight for your next book. If he doesn't discourage you. My books never got off the ground because I was so frustrated by the antagonists.

Just some patterns from the Amanda Knox discussions.
 
I appear to have lost track of what point you are trying to make. Could you clarify?

___________________________

Judging from their statement, Google is no more interested in defending FREEDOM OF SPEECH than they are in defending NUDISM. (Maybe less.)

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Tina Jensen’s article “‘It's a pretty simple story. If they waited for the DNA first, they would have solved this quickly without any kind of mess.’ Instead, he says the investigators stuck to their gut feelings. ‘Nothing wrong with a gut feeling--for an investigation. But when the DNA speaks, you've got to put away the gut feeling if it's wrong. They didn't do that in this case.’”

I also think that a lot of the loopey behaviour after the crime and at the police station that seems to be the 'proof' the cops need, could be caused by the frostiness from Meredith's very upset friends. They are also quite snooty and I am sure would despise Amanda under any circumstances causing her to grow increasingly uncomfortable and erratic while around them.
And not turn up to the memorial because of it etc

The 'foriegn police' would be very, very big on picking up 'who dislikes who' at this stage of the crime.
And of course, possibly overestimating what they hear...
 
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embellishments

I also think that a lot of the loopey behaviour after the crime and at the police station that seems to be the 'proof' the cops need, could be caused by the frostiness from Meredith's very upset friends. They are also quite snooty and I am sure would despise Amanda under any circumstances causing her to grow increasingly uncomfortable and erratic while around them.
And not turn up to the memorial because of it etc

The 'foriegn police' would be very, very big on picking up 'who dislikes who' at this stage of the crime.
And of course, possibly overestimating what they hear...
TheRealBob,

I agree, but I wonder to what degree the strange behavior has gotten exaggerated and embellished by the witnesses becoming convinced of Ms. Knox's involvement in the crime, as Kestrel and others (including myself) have argued. I am not sure, but I don't recall hearing about cartwheels prior to testimony in early 2009.
 
TheRealBob,

I agree, but I wonder to what degree the strange behavior has gotten exaggerated and embellished by the witnesses becoming convinced of Ms. Knox's involvement in the crime, as Kestrel and others (including myself) have argued. I am not sure, but I don't recall hearing about cartwheels prior to testimony in early 2009.


It looks like this cartwheel first came up in the testimony of Giacinto Profazio during testimony the morning of February 27, 2009. Nick Pisa made the initial report in the user comments on Frank's Blog.
(If I convert the times properly, that would be about Noon in Perugia; before anything happened)

Perugia Shock 2009-02-27...
Nick Pisa: Knox 'Did Cartwheel At Station' said...
"I was also told that she did the splits and a cartwheel in one of the rooms at the station - then later after being questioned all night she burst into tears."

FEBRUARY 27, 2009 4:22 AM​


Nicks story is published by Sky News (and others)
4:54pm UK, Friday February 27, 2009
Nick Pisa, in Perugia

Giacinto Profazio, the then head of the Flying Squad in Perugia, told the court: "I heard that on the night Knox and Sollecito were arrested she was in a room at the police station sitting on his knee.
"I was also told that she did the splits and a cartwheel in one of the rooms at the station - then later after being questioned all night she burst into tears."​


And in a new blog post by Frank that evening
CARTHWEELS AT THE POLICE STATION
A new bravery of Amanda Knox was revealed today by the police. While waiting for her interrogation at the police station, in that long night of November 5th that led to her arrest, the vice questore Monica Napoleoni sees her doing the splits and and turning cartwheels in the corridor!

FRANK SFARZO AT 8:39 PM​


As an aside, does Italy have the same concept of limiting hearsay in criminal trials that is employed by the civilized world?
 
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True, what you say. Sometimes the most convincing people are the antagonists with the weak arguments. They, by their weak arguments, make the opposite point they think they are making. You could say the same of Mignini too. Trouble is, their choir/cult believes the BS.

On the other hand, it is sometimes a waste of time to use logic to convince those that do not know logic or know only broken logic (frequently those with low IQ's). However, the low IQ people seem to band together and believe that the majority determines truth and rightness.

I spent 15 years on internet forums trying to logically convince one person of a couple points using logic and fact. I wasted my time. He never changed. However, I did. I decided never to waste my time doing that again. Then I decided that a good antagonist makes a good story.

Sometimes too, the antagonist helps you get your ideas straight for your next book. If he doesn't discourage you. My books never got off the ground because I was so frustrated by the antagonists.

Just some patterns from the Amanda Knox discussions.

I am honestly not frustrated by people like Pilot. They like to think that I am some angry guy that's foaming at the mouth reading their rants. They couldn't be more wrong. But it's not the first time they've been wrong. Every time that group is proven wrong, they just move onto something else to argue about. Look at what has just happened with the latest story about Mignini. Pilot's friends said it was all a hoax. They wrote letters to CPJ and tried to discredit Frank. They laughed at IIP and mocked Candace Dempsey. Today the Washington Post article proves them wrong.

Do they admit they were wrong? Of course not. They go on an all out attack on Frank saying that he deserved the defamation lawsuit. A lawsuit that just yesterday they were calling a hoax.

They simply keep moving forward always on the attack. The truth is nowhere on their radar. Just attack. That's all they know. I point out their actions but I know they will never change.
 
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Indeed it is. Whether it's July or September the result will be the same, AK and RS will lose their appeal. What will the faithful do then? As the lovebirds final appeal to the Supreme Court drags on for a few more years most of the faithful will move on to some other cause they find interesting. After all, Amanda won't be so young anymore, she'll be hardened by years in prison, "wacky Amanda" will be replaced by a bitter women pushing 30 and there will always be another cute American girl in trouble for the faithful to latch on to. And in the next case, as in this one, the faithful will continue believe that have complete knowledge of every aspect of the planet, from forensic pathology to international law to criminal psychology....all because they can Google.

'Pass the hash pipe, I'll play the Doors tapes!' :)

As we're both 'Lost in a Roman wilderness of pain' in this discussion, perhaps one of us has chosen to alleviate their discomfort by partaking in the usage of non-traditional pain relievers now legal in certain states? It's possible you think that of me, though my state is not one of them, thus let me explain just why I think why things are going especially well for the Good Guys, part of an nearly inevitable process that will lead to their exoneration long before Raffaele is thirty, let alone Amanda.

Have you ever considered the possibility that even if there was a cabal of licentious males obsessed over the fate of this college-aged chick and her funnyman boyfriend they still might be right? That if there was a 'PR campaign' that actually amounted to more than the parents going on TV and telling their side of the story, that the facts might be on their side and Amanda and Raffaele are innocent? That's at least possible, right?

After all, how is it that what can be found through google, library cards and in textbooks--truly curious sources compared to just accepting the word of prosecution authorities on various subjects--seem to back the contentions of the innocentisti? Are they part of this 'shadowy network' too? Why is it that no one has been able to dig up a link, or cite a book or text, that actually backs the contention that a healthy 20 year-old girl eating a small to moderate meal having consumed no or little alcohol could have failed to pass anything into her duodenum for more than five hours? Or that for it even to have been four was at the edge of probability? Why is it that in attempting to refute Itrona's testimony the 'infallible' guy named Giancarlo never bothers to actually address that argument?

I will freely admit that I'm terribly proud of the 'B' (on a curve!) I earned having to take that obnoxious 5 credit biology class in college. Your argument elsewhere on this page suggests you believe I've no business even offering an opinion on that topic, whereas I suspect that if I, whose now spent more time reading on that subject the last six months than I ever did my textbook during that miserable (classroom) experience, can look into it and find not only those links but others that corroborate it, and note no one disputing that can do anything but attempt to obfuscate, that there is something terribly wrong with the idea that Meredith died anytime after 10:30 and that's it's highly unlikely it was after 9:30.

That's not the only example, it's one of legion. This whole case is replete with examples where the prosecution's contentions do not survive even basic scrutiny. Also, neither does the story of the police, especially regarding the interrogation and subsequent arrests of Patrick, Raffaele and Amanda. Now, knowing that I'm actually not interested in this solely because Amanda's a pretty girl, and it just so happens that I've more knowledge and experience regarding subjects related to this than I do the above, I can get a pretty good idea of what probably occurred: the cops blew the interrogation because due to coincidence, clownish incompetence, confirmation bias--and perhaps even animus--they convinced themselves Amanda was complicit with Patrick in the murder of Meredith Kercher. I certainly don't expect you to take my word for it, but that's where I'm coming from.

Therefore as this plays out all that's needed is exposure to reveal the real story to all. The trial will be a big part of that, of course, they'll be taking that crippled case through court again, running into ambushes at every juncture, but more than that the inconsistencies in the prosecution's story and the lengths at which they've gone to keep people from criticizing them can't help but surface. These have been some bad little piggies, and bad little piggies become bacon at market. A meltdown from Mignini wasn't required, but it sure does help to speed up this process, as one thing real journalists are pretty much in accordance with despite other differences is that they shouldn't be thrown in jail for reporting their take on what happened in an event. It tends to piss them off too, and that's not often the best way to get puff pieces out of them.

Perhaps you could consider the possibility that if you're willing to accept the proposition that all these disparate people from all over the world who argue or campaign for Amanda's innocence are obsessed over Amanda's looks, and perhaps even 'coordinated' by some backwater PR firm which is only a disguise for the master manipulators of the media they are, maybe the idea the cops really screwed the pooch and are covering it up is not such a unlikely possibility? Isn't it a more plausible motivation for a group of people who work together on the same 'team' to go beyond the bounds of propriety to cover their asses, which in turn provides even more incentive to think they're doing it for the 'greater good' to put a monstrous murderess behind bars, and as such would go out of their way to help out the 'team?'

Thus as we wind on down the road I suspect you'll find that more time and exposure will reveal that indeed those damned 'groupies' were right all along regarding just about everything. That each and every step of the process from here on out will just serve to reveal that, and by spitting in the face of the CPJ with another preposterous charge Mignini has revealed himself. Consider that initial reports assume there's substance to the charge, that Frank actually did say something defamatory about Mignini. As you know, that's not the case, which will make this charge even more evidence of the desperation, delusion or both of Mignini.

It's only a matter of time at this point in my view. I'd rather make my case with movies and music being as that's lots more fun, but I've been through all those boring and tedious subjects relating to the luminol footprints and the DNA evidence and I'm pretty damn sure I know what they mean, and how they will eventually effect the case. Your appeal to credentialism elsewhere doesn't take into account all those experts stepping forward drown the clowns and incompetents that caused this travesty with their credentials, and outside the forlorn hope they might all be sexually obsessed or motivated by instinct to help a young lady in peril, there's nothing to refute their analysis. Nor that of all those scientific and other texts in which that couldn't possibly be a factor.

That's why with this trial I suspect the final result will be 'Good Guys win, Bad Guys lose, and this time justice prevails!' :)
 
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Oh Golly Gee; that is a tremendously jolly good idea indeed.:boggled:

Let's all rely totally on Amanda's ' recorded Court Testimony' with alacrity and assurance.

Let's not use innuendo, but instead use the 'recorded' words of an individual who has been caught in so many carefully documented unequivocally totally erroneous and contradictory 'best truths that she can think of', that she has been called by many who came in contact with her before during and after her unanimous conviction, as a being a classic pathological liar.:rolleyes:

Incidentally, of course, the ' recorded (WoW) Court Testimony' that you fallaciously allocate so much unwarranted credence to is not given 'under oath' in Italian Courts.
In fact, testimony and a spontaneous statement from a defendant in Italian Courts is routinely expected to be anything but truthful.

But surely you knew that.;)

Hi Pilot! 'Would you like to play a game?' :)

Let's call it 'Liar's Club.' You post a 'lie' you think you have found from Raffaele or Amanda, and I show you how it is probably just a mistake, misunderstanding due to language or mistranslation, and is meaningless besides. Then I post something the police told the press and then evidence that it wasn't true and they should have known it. Also that it was of actual importance as it was presented to a court as 'evidence' of her guilt, or served to incriminate her in the eyes of the public and suggest she was a liar.

'But wait, there's more!' The second round will consist of determining whether that 'error' was due to them either lying or simply being incompetent. Unlike you having to try to mine 'lies' from fluffy insignificant statements without remorse, I will allow the possibility that they were simply 'beyond stupid' about it, and you get to make that case! I recall you once thought that an 'interesting' turn of a phrase, and at that time I was trying to construct a scenario defending them! It's your turn now, I am through trying to save these little piggies from market, I want to see them fry like bacon! :p

So let us begin. Go ahead and post a 'lie' from Amanda, we'll start there.

"Con permiso, mon capitaine. The hall is rented, the orchestra engaged. It's now time to see if you can dance."

:)
 
Nice, Kaosium, nice!
I remember reading something that Raffaele Sollecito had written while in prison, something along the lines of how he missed being at the sea shore. As I am a surfer and a Doors fan also, well this song sprung to mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd-VbT1t3bQ

Waiting for the Sun.

Sometimes I'm out surfing in the waters of L.A., and I think of this guy, and the girl he had fallen for, and the terrible injustice that they have had to endure, as this song plays in my mind, awaiting my next wave to ride. I hope the appeals work, and Raffaele and Amanda may soon stand again on Freedoms Shore.
Waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting...

It has now been 1282 days that they have been wrongfully imprisoned.
 
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Wow,

I cant keep up here...

I’m still back at the "staged" break-in...

Filomena was the self proclaimed house manager in that she collected the rent from the others and paid it to the landlord and she also reported the repair issues necessary.

There are statements that Filomena had lodged two complaints to the landlord.

1. The front door lock was broken and had been so since mid Oct. The lock worked prior to that time by simply closing the door. But now it failed to latch itself and required a key to actually lock it in order to keep the door from blowing open on its own.

2. Filomena also complained to the landlord that the shutters in her room were in need of repair. She explained that one shutter was warped which made it impossible to latch the two together. She added that this allowed the shutters to blow open and since her window was level and easily viewed from the driveway that she was concerned about the security and privacy risk.
 
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