• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Number of posts made by Biker Druid in threads about Libya, Syria or Barhain= 0

Gee, I wonder why?

What do Palestinians have that other Arab nations don't?
 
Captain.Sassy said:
I think calling this an 'invasion' is a bit of a stretch.
Click to expand...

It involved hundred of Syrian protestors trampling the border fence and crossing over to Israel. That's an invasion.

Michael Toten's take (which I linked to) is very interesting, as is the reaction of the wider Israeli press. The Israeli press and public does not think it is an invasion in the same sense as tanks crossing the borders. They are criticizing the IDF, not for the soldier's reaction at the spot so much (which nobody planned), but for not making sure it would be unnecessary by making sure they had enough riot gear and, above all, enough people.

Toten notes, by the way, that some of the protesters -- of the hundreds who were arrested -- did, in fact, seem not interested in the "Nakba" but in... crossing over to Israel because they're sick of Syria (at least according to some interviews). Of course you can't exactly expect the soldiers to have known that when they are part of a violent mob crossing the border.

So, is anyone denying this is not the same as enemy tanks crossing the border? No. But when a violent mob of hundreds tramples on the fence and tries to overwhelm the soldiers confronting it, just what do you expect?
 
By the way, what are the protestors protesting? The occupation? Israeli policies? Netanyahu? No. They are violently protesting Israel's very existence, which they consider a disaster.

Can someone who says your very existence is a disaster be a good neighbour? Doubtful, to say the least.
 
I know.

They're so crazy.

It's impossible for me to understand why people from that part of the world would have any problem with how Israel was established.
 
bikerdruid said:
no, that's a trespassing.
Click to expand...

When done by one individual, yes.

When done by hundreds as a coordinated effort, it's an invasion. Especially since, as in this case, it's coordinated by another country (Sytria, in this case).

Otherwise, by your definition, the D-day landing was merely a few hundreds of thousands of cases of tresspassers.
 
Saw this about some of the press coverage of events occurring in and around Israel today.

"Traffic Accidents and Protestors: Media Downplays Nakba Violence"

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2...nd-protestors-media-downplays-nakba-violence/

Most of the article:

It’s that time of year again, when the Arab world rises up to protest Israel’s sin of existing. So far the Nakba festivities have included a deadly terrorist attack in Tel Aviv and an attempted mass infiltration of Israel’s Syrian border by rioters.

But almost as predictable as the anti-Israel violence is the media’s attempt to whitewash it. Here’s how the Guardian described today’s Tel Aviv terrorist attack (h/t: CiF Watch):

Inside Israel, police were on high alert for disturbances among the country’s Arab minority. In a reflection of the jitters, a deadly traffic accident involving an Arab lorry driver in Tel Aviv set off fears that an attack had been carried out. The lorry ploughed through a crowded street, crashing into a bus, several cars and pedestrians, killing one and injuring 16 others. Police said the 22-year-old driver claimed it was an accident, but said they were still investigating.

The suspicion that this was a terrorist attack wasn’t so much due to the Nakba “jitters,” as it was due to the fact that the driver mowed down several vehicles before reportedly jumping out of his truck and attacking a woman with a toppled traffic light. During the incident, was also reportedly yelling “itbach al yahud! (death to Jews!)” and “allahu akbar (God is great!)”

Several news organizations have also characterized the mobs rushing the Israeli border as “protestors.” In fact, they appear to be rioters, who were bussed to the area in an attempt to infiltrate the border and provoke Israeli security forces.
Click to expand...
 
Skeptic said:
By the way, what are the protestors protesting? The occupation? Israeli policies? Netanyahu? No. They are violently protesting Israel's very existence, which they consider a disaster.
Click to expand...

I wonder why they chose this year to cross over the border and "protest".

It's been 63 years since the "nakba", why didn't they do it three years ago?
 
Captain.Sassy said:
It's impossible for me to understand why people from that part of the world would have any problem with how Israel was established.
Click to expand...

Israel was established by a war when five Arab nations -- and the Palestinian national movement at the time -- tried to push the Jews into the sea the day Israel was created.

Them losing that war, not the establishment of Israel, caused the Nakba -- much like Germany losing WWII caused German refugees. The goal is still the same: Israel's destruction.

What would you say about someone who yearly violently protests V-E day and considers the allied victory in WWII a "disaster"? Would you think it's someone who merely has "problems with how west Germany was created"?

...exactly.
 
Pardalis said:
I wonder why they chose this year to cross over the border and "protest".

It's been 63 years since the "nakba", why didn't they do it three years ago?
Click to expand...

I don't know, but Assad's current need for an external enemy might be a reason. At least that's a reasonable guess.
 
Pardalis said:
And yet nobody has a problem with how Jordan was established.
Click to expand...

...or 90% of the nations established after WWII.

The Pakistanis had millions of refugees from other parts of India in 1947. Yet you don't see them yearly officially commemorating India's establishment a "catastrophe" with the official goal of eventually destroying it and establishing a Hindu-free Pakistan on all of its territory.
 
Skeptic said:
"Unarmed protestors" who deliberately cross and invade another country's borders are not protestors, but invaders. Of course it's OK to shoot them -- it's the same with any country whose borders are invaded.
Click to expand...

So the old british mandate troops would have been justfied in simply killing everyone on the refugee ships that kept turning up?

But hey, good idea. I think Israel, if it wants some more territory, should just send some unarmed citizens across the Syrian border. I'm sure the Syrian army won't mind.
Click to expand...

Given the size of the Syrian armed forces, the terrian involved, the smaller size of the isreali population and frankly isreali standards of living it is entirely possible that the Syrian armed forces would be able to expell any such attempt without resorting to lethal force. If they would bother to do so is a seperate matter.
 
Skeptic said:
I don't know, but Assad's current need for an external enemy might be a reason. At least that's a reasonable guess.
Click to expand...

It seems like a coordinated effort.

In Lebanon, they filled buses with Palestinians refugees, trying to forcefully return them to Israel.
The biggest of the border protests by far was in Lebanon, where an estimated 50,000 Palestinians were bussed from refugee camps scattered around Lebanon to Maroun er Ras. The huge turnout surprised even organizers. "I was expecting 21,000 at the most. We ran out of buses to carry everyone," said Mahmoud Zeidan, a protest organizer from the Ain al-Hilweh refugee camp in the southern Lebanese city of Sidon. "Ain al Hilweh looks deserted. I haven't seen it so empty since the 1982 Israeli invasion when everyone evacuated," he said.
Click to expand...

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2071599,00.html#ixzz1MSTKcyZh

Talk about using people as living pawns...
 
Skeptic said:
...or 90% of the nations established after WWII.

The Pakistanis had millions of refugees from other parts of India in 1947. Yet you don't see them yearly officially commemorating India's establishment a "catastrophe" with the official goal of eventually destroying it and establishing a Hindu-free Pakistan on all of its territory.
Click to expand...

The process of Partition isn't exactly viewed positively and that pretty much is Pakistan's aim in Kashmir.
 
Pardalis said:
And yet nobody has a problem with how Jordan was established.
Click to expand...

Jordan was carved out of land that for the most part was NOT part of historic Palestine. The only reason Jordan today has soo many Palestinians is because they are REFUGEES from Israel in 1948.
 
bigjelmapro said:
No, Mycroft has finally nailed down TF. Simple.
Click to expand...

Is this forum some kind of meeting point for parallel universes, one the normal sane world of evidence, one a bizarro world where mind reading really works and you can tell each other what everyone else thinks. And this is only one example of many where such mind reading is used as evidence. I do have Mycroft on ignore, he is pretty much the Matt Giwer of your side. So you will have to forgive me for not accepting anything he says.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom