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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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bigjelmapro said:
Another hapless attempt at moral equivalence.
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No. Fool was referring to charter wars. I disagree with a charter that does not recognise Israel. I also disagree with one that does not recognise Palestine.

Stating a right to settlement in the WB, which from a legal perspective has nothing inherently illegal/wrong/etc about it, is not the same as Hamas calling out for the destruction of Israel and the legitimization of terror against all those in Israel and the disputed territories.
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It is internationally recognised, including by the US, Israel's closest ally, as being legally wrong.

The Likud platform (settlement in the WB, etc.) is and has been stating, as far as their argument goes, that the Mandate of Palestine and subsequent agreements provided the legal argument for settlement in Judea/Samaria.

As for any peace agreements, I think Likud doesn't believe that an independent Palestinian state will function by itself and would better be absorbed by a neighboring Arab country with the option of being autonomous. At least, I think that's a viable option.
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Yes, apartheid. The supremacists caring for the lesser beings.
 
WildCat said:
The conversation went exactly as Mycroft described it. If The Fool has an ounce of decency he'll apologize fot lying and repeatedly misreprese3nting the positions of others.
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another charter whine? but it hasn't been the required 2 months since the last :)
 
a_unique_person said:
I quoted Fool.
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Right, where he made it clear that he thinks amending the Charter in writing is just too much to expect from the Palestinians. And then, just as claimed, tries to deflect with comments about the Likud party platform, as if that had any relevance at all the the issue at hand.

Any comment on how The Fool constantly misrepresents the positions of those he disagrees with? Or is this just how it's done Down Under? :rolleyes:
 
The Fool said:
another charter whine? but it hasn't been the required 2 months since the last :)
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Why do you think they haven't written down the alleged amendments to the Charter The Fool? They can't find a pen? The copy machine is broken? They forgot where the official document is? They know where but lost the key to the desk drawer it's locked in? Or maybe they don't do it because this allows them to claim one thing to their people in Arabic while saying another in English to the west?

I know which scenario I find most likely.

If they can't manage a simple thing like amending the Charter as promised years ago what does that say about their sincerity in forging new agreements?
 
WildCat said:
Why do you think they haven't written down the alleged amendments to the Charter The Fool? They can't find a pen? The copy machine is broken? They forgot where the official document is? They know where but lost the key to the desk drawer it's locked in? Or maybe they don't do it because this allows them to claim one thing to their people in Arabic while saying another in English to the west?

I know which scenario I find most likely.

If they can't manage a simple thing like amending the Charter as promised years ago what does that say about their sincerity in forging new agreements?
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ok son, here is the deal. I'm quite happy to repeatedly correct you but about every 2 months or so is the most I can manage. Please raise the issue of your lack of understanding of the term "amended" in another couple of weeks.
 
The Fool said:
WildCat said:
Why do you think they haven't written down the alleged amendments to the Charter The Fool? They can't find a pen? The copy machine is broken? They forgot where the official document is? They know where but lost the key to the desk drawer it's locked in? Or maybe they don't do it because this allows them to claim one thing to their people in Arabic while saying another in English to the west?

I know which scenario I find most likely.

If they can't manage a simple thing like amending the Charter as promised years ago what does that say about their sincerity in forging new agreements?
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ok son, here is the deal. I'm quite happy to repeatedly correct you but about every 2 months or so is the most I can manage. Please raise the issue of your lack of understanding of the term "amended" in another couple of weeks.
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I've hilited the questions you were expected to answer just in case you missed them and aren't just trying to run away from them. Is it possible for you to answer them?
 
theprestige said:
If the charter has been amended, where are the amendments?
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not going to repeat this....The search function is your friend....If you missed the last charter discussion maybe you can sign up for the next....I'm not available for this current one.
 
theprestige said:
If the charter has been amended, where are the amendments?
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not going to repeat this....The search function is your friend....If you missed the last charter discussion maybe you can sign up for the next....I'm not available for this current one.
 
The Fool said:
not going to repeat this....The search function is your friend....If you missed the last charter discussion maybe you can sign up for the next....I'm not available for this current one.
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I thought you said you were not going to repeat it?
 
Basically, you can believe the English-language version of the PLO press release, which says the charter has been amended, or you can believe every other source out there, including the Arabic-language press release by the PLO and the PLO spokesperson, that it hasn't been amended. Is it any surprise The Fool prefers to believe the former source and not all the others that contradict it?
 
mortimer said:
Basically, you can believe the English-language version of the PLO press release, which says the charter has been amended, or you can believe every other source out there, including the Arabic-language press release by the PLO and the PLO spokesperson, that it hasn't been amended. Is it any surprise The Fool prefers to believe the former source and not all the others that contradict it?
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wrong....I have my own opinions on the amendment....shared by all the major players at the time....the Israeli government, the US government. There are a small fringe group of right wing Israelis and their internet parrots who don't and never will accept it....I have no interest in wasting my time trying to convince a fringe groups that the charter was amended or that al quaeda was behind 911 or that Bin Laden is really dead.

I think I will take a break from the thread until this current rerun of the charters whine has burned out.

go for it guys....enjoy.
 
mortimer said:
Basically, you can believe the English-language version of the PLO press release, which says the charter has been amended, or you can believe every other source out there, including the Arabic-language press release by the PLO and the PLO spokesperson, that it hasn't been amended. Is it any surprise The Fool prefers to believe the former source and not all the others that contradict it?
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Basically, I don't believe any of the press releases. I believe the amendments themselves.

Only, the amendments themselves don't seem to exist. Have they been published anywhere?

The Fool? Have you seen the amendments?

ETA: I mean, the amendments to the US Constitution are all over the place. You can find them on the Internet. You can find them in libraries. They're cited all the time in federal court cases. They're referenced repeatedly in Supreme Court opinions, and in Supreme Court dissenting opinions. You can't throw a rock in this country, without hitting an amendment. You can't shake a stick, without poking an amendment in the eye.

So where are these mystery amendments, The Fool?
 
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theprestige said:
Basically, I don't believe any of the press releases. I believe the amendments themselves.

Only, the amendments themselves don't seem to exist. Have they been published anywhere?

The Fool? Have you seen the amendments?

ETA: I mean, the amendments to the US Constitution are all over the place. You can find them on the Internet. You can find them in libraries. They're cited all the time in federal court cases. They're referenced repeatedly in Supreme Court opinions, and in Supreme Court dissenting opinions. You can't throw a rock in this country, without hitting an amendment. You can't shake a stick, without poking an amendment in the eye.

So where are these mystery amendments, The Fool?
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sigh....no...they never did redraft the stupid plo charter. They actually ended up writing a whole new constitution. Not that you guys would care though eh?


If you want to play "have you read"

Have you read the Palestinian constitution?

here....have a read..pay particular attention to article 119.
After you have read it....forget all about it and join your friends for further uninformed charter ranting.
 
Article 119 says:

Everything in contradiction with provisions of this amending law to Basic law shall be repealed.
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What am I supposed to be looking at?

Of course, what's the constitution worth of a corrupt, careerist gangster clique?
 
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a_unique_person said:
No. Fool was referring to charter wars. I disagree with a charter that does not recognise Israel. I also disagree with one that does not recognise Palestine.
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Moral equivalence no matter how hard you're trying to back peddle.

It is internationally recognised, including by the US, Israel's closest ally, as being legally wrong.
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Argumentum ad populum. See the changing designation and unique position of this territory in the UN throughout the decades. Its disputed, pure and simple.

Yes, apartheid. The supremacists caring for the lesser beings.
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Tried and failed the apartheid bit.
 
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