Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Danceme said:
LJ! Yes ok, looking again it does look small, like a mini laptop bag because if it isn't it's one ugly purse, all those zippers on top and that thick strap!
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In the video the police make a point of filming the bag but for why I don't know. I am not sure of the dimensions of the bag - photography plays weird things with perspective - large appears small, small appears large, etc.

I don't think it is a handbag - could it be a camera case?
 
Danceme said:
LJ! Yes ok, looking again it does look small, like a mini laptop bag because if it isn't it's one ugly purse, all those zippers on top and that thick strap!




What did it say Rose, the site is now down altogether?
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That was the point. According to Sarah at IIP, the blog has been seized.
 
HumanityBlues said:
Reads to me like Hellmann politely telling Stefanoni to go **** herself.
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No, I don't think that's it.

I think he is saying I understand where you are coming from but let's work together to make sure the experts have what is needed to evaluate the work done, even if some of their requests seem rather confusing. Judges are usually diplomatic like that.
 
christianahannah said:
No, I don't think that's it.

I think he is saying I understand where you are coming from but let's work together to make sure the experts have what is needed to evaluate the work done, even if some of their requests seem rather confusing. Judges are usually diplomatic like that.
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I don't think so. Hellmann comes off like a very polite judge indeed, but you may not be giving him enough credit. Hellmann sends a request to have Stefanoni send over specific documents, to which Stefanoni essentially says "No" in a very long winded way.

If a judge orders something to be done, you do it. Read what Stefanoni says. It's just a long rambling way of saying "No, I don't want to give it you."

Rather than dignify this rambling and dodging diatribe point by point, Hellmann politely says "Ya, that's great and all, but hand everything over".

Or in other words, "Stefanoni, go **** yourself. Give them what they asked for".
 
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why did they even have to ask

christianahannah said:
I think Stefanoni will send what is needed.

I can see no exasperation on Hellmann's part. Of course, the English translation may soften that exasperation somewhat.
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christianahannah,

Does it not strike you as odd that the things being requested were not already part of the case file?
 
theRealBob said:
I think that people who believe they have been burgled have a really good look around.

I am sure that Raff and Amanda knew for certain they had discovered a murder on the morning after. Possibly even the night before or very late on the night before like 5am.
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Are you making a claim that they were in the cottage at 5am? What is your evidence?!


Looking at the photos of Meredith's tiny room it might be possible to see just enough through the keyhole to have some kind of educated guess about what has happened (and we know Meredith had a door with a keyhole.)
Hence the stuttering erratic behaviour from Amanda when the door was being opened.
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In one of Amanda's statements, perhaps the e-mail home on the 4th, there is a mention of Raffaele trying to peer through the keyhole. I thought at the time of generating the view of what would be visible through the keyhole and posted such in the original thread. But it appears that the modern lock hardware has eliminated this security hole with some clever design feature.

The latch hardware on the interior doors of the cottage are AGB Centro interroom lock sets. You are welcome to investigate this yourself to see if anything can be seen through that keyhole.

Also to consider, the statement of those viewing the room when the door was kicked in was that it was dark inside. The room light was probably out and the window shutters closed. There may not have been any light in the room except for the pulsing sleep light from Meredith's laptop until the door was opened to let the sunlight in from the porch.


I would say that Rudy locked Meredith's door while he was washing up and then, because he had, probably had a fiddle around in both flats afterwards (he did have the keys).
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I would say you are wrong here. The bloody shoe print tracks appear to be made of diluted blood which places them in time after Rudy washed up. There is nothing Rudy can accomplish by hanging around the cottage except increase his chance of getting caught.
 
halides1 said:
christianahannah,

Does it not strike you as odd that the things being requested were not already part of the case file?
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I think some, if not all, of the items requested were part of the case file, but perhaps not in the way the experts asked that they be given.

I honestly don't believe anything was withheld from the defense that was required by law that they have.

If my belief is wrong (that the defense was not given what was required by law) I will definitely be on the side of strong sanctions/actions towards those who withheld that evidence.
 
christianahannah said:
I think some, if not all, of the items requested were part of the case file, but perhaps not in the way the experts asked that they be given.

I honestly don't believe anything was withheld from the defense that was required by law that they have.

If my belief is wrong (that the defense was not given what was required by law) I will definitely be on the side of strong sanctions/actions towards those who withheld that evidence.
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What is clear is that the case file does not contain the information that the experts feel they need to make a proper evaluation of Stefanoni's testing. Which is what the defense has also said. If Stefanoni has nothing to hide, there should be no problem providing the information.
 
HumanityBlues said:
I don't think so. Hellmann comes off like a very polite judge indeed, but you may not be giving him enough credit. Hellmann sends a request to have Stefanoni send over specific documents, to which Stefanoni essentially says "No" in a very long winded way.

If a judge orders something to be done, you do it. Read what Stefanoni says. It's just a long rambling way of saying "No, I don't want to give it you."

Rather than dignify this rambling and dodging diatribe point by point, Hellmann politely says "Ya, that's great and all, but hand everything over".

Or in other words, "Stefanoni, go **** yourself. Give them what they asked for".
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Believe me I give judges enough credit - to not do so would not be in anyone's best interest.

Stefanoni says I can't give some of what is asked in the way it is asked because that isn't how the documenation is compiled or I don't understand what it is they are asking.

Hellmann says, I understand but give the experts our (Hellmann's and Stefanoni's) correspondence and clarify with them what it is which confuses you in their request and work together with the result of completing the investigation in a thorough manner.

But I don't see him saying what you have so eloquently written - not yet anyways.
 
christianahannah said:
Believe me I give judges enough credit - to not do so would not be in anyone's best interest.

Stefanoni says I can't give some of what is asked in the way it is asked because that isn't how the documenation is compiled or I don't understand what it is they are asking.

Hellmann says, I understand but give the experts our (Hellmann's and Stefanoni's) correspondence and clarify with them what it is which confuses you in their request and work together with the result of completing the investigation in a thorough manner.

But I don't see him saying what you have so eloquently written - not yet anyways.
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I respect your opinion, but not buying it AT ALL.
 
Perugia Shock shut down by Giuliano Mignini

RoseMontague said:
That was the point. According to Sarah at IIP, the blog has been seized.
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Candace Dempsey just updated her blog:

UPDATE: Google, under pressure from Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini, has pulled the plug on Perugia Shock, according to creator Frank Sfarzo. You can still see Perugia Shock on the Wayback Machine. Sfarzo, already threatened by Perugia police, says that Mignini has accused him of defamation through the press. He wrote the only Amanda Knox case blog written in English by an Italian journalist in Perugia.
 
No credit is due Matteini, Micheli or Massei.
They may well be thoroughly discredited shortly.
Hellmann has made it clear that he will not counternance any obstruction from Stefanoni.
Napoleoni failed to attend the last hearing without giving any explanation.
Consequently Hellmann has ordered her to appear before him on the 21 May.
 
Draca said:
Candace Dempsey just updated her blog:

UPDATE: Google, under pressure from Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini, has pulled the plug on Perugia Shock, according to creator Frank Sfarzo. You can still see Perugia Shock on the Wayback Machine. Sfarzo, already threatened by Perugia police, says that Mignini has accused him of defamation through the press. He wrote the only Amanda Knox case blog written in English by an Italian journalist in Perugia.
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This is quite frankly shocking to my sensibilities. What does the prosecutor have to do with freedom of the press? He should not be trying to suppress information.
 
Draca said:
Candace Dempsey just updated her blog:

UPDATE: Google, under pressure from Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini, has pulled the plug on Perugia Shock, according to creator Frank Sfarzo. You can still see Perugia Shock on the Wayback Machine. Sfarzo, already threatened by Perugia police, says that Mignini has accused him of defamation through the press. He wrote the only Amanda Knox case blog written in English by an Italian journalist in Perugia.
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I'm afraid I do not find this action by Mignini at all surprising.
What is surprising is that he did not act earlier.
He is now looking a desperate man.
He has just been severely embarrassed by the CNN interview, following hard on the news that the DNA evidence is collapsing, as has his star witness, Curatolo.
 
Magister said:
I'm afraid I do not find this action by Mignini at all surprising.
What is surprising is that he did not act earlier.
He is now looking a desperate man.
He has just been severely embarrassed by the CNN interview, following hard on the news that the DNA evidence is collapsing, as has his star witness, Curatolo.
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Giuliano Mignini is still a very dangerous man with a lot of power. Remember what they did to Mario Spezi? A month in solitary before release with a lot of outside pressure.

They could bring Frank in and keep him in jail for a YEAR before even officially charging him. That's what was done to Amanda and Raffaele. Mignini also pushed hard for solitary for them even during that year. The cops have been watching his apartment, especially since the CPJ letter. He could be in serious danger of being jailed or worse.
 
Cpj - mario spezi, giuliano mignini

Here is part of the CPJ letter about Spezi:


The Committee to Protect Journalists, an independent, nonpartisan organization dedicated to defending the rights of journalists worldwide, is deeply concerned about the fate of Mario Spezi, a veteran crime journalist imprisoned in the central Italian city of Perugia.

Officers with the Florence headquarters of the special police unit for investigating serial crimes, Gruppo Investigativo Delitti Seriali (GIDES), headed by Michele Giuttari, arrested Spezi, a freelancer for the Florence-based daily La Nazione, at his Florence home on April 7 on the order of Giuliano Mignini, public prosecutor of Perugia. Spezi was transferred the same day to Capanne Prison in Perugia, where he remains, according to local and international press reports and CPJ sources.

Mignini filed a request with the preliminary investigation judge of Perugia, Marina De Robertis, to invoke a rarely used law under Italy's criminal code to deny Spezi access to a lawyer for five days, Spezi's lawyer Alessandro Traversi told CPJ. The law is typically applied to the most dangerous criminals, yet Judge De Robertis authorized the measure, and for five days Spezi was denied legal counsel and held incommunicado.

Spezi's wife, Miriam, told CPJ that authorities showed no warrant when they took her husband on April 7, nor did they explain why or where they were taking him. News reports say the journalist is now under criminal investigation for allegedly defaming Perugia prosecutors through the media; attempting to sidetrack an official murder probe by planning to plant evidence; and involvement in the 1985 alleged murder of a Florentine doctor.

These are very serious allegations, whose substance and supporting evidence should be clarified and made public. Authorities in Perugia have not done so, and Spezi remains in jail for a 12th consecutive day. On April 14, Judge De Robertis refused to grant a defense motion to release Spezi during the investigation, the Italian news agency ANSA reported.

Spezi's lawyer, Alessandro Traversi, told CPJ that he is planning to file another motion seeking his client's release. "The prosecution has given no substantive explanation and evidence of my client's alleged guilt," Traversi said.

CPJ research and interviews with Italian journalists, some of whom asked to remain anonymous for fear of official retaliation, show a pattern of official harassment against Spezi in connection with his investigation of the "Monster of Florence" case.

Several local journalists told CPJ that Italian reporters are afraid to speak openly in support of Spezi because they fear angering authorities. Several declined to be quoted by name for fear of official harassment.


http://www.cpj.org/2006/04/crime-journalists-imprisonment-raises-alarm.php
 
Draca said:
Giuliano Mignini is still a very dangerous man with a lot of power. Remember what they did to Mario Spezi? A month in solitary before release with a lot of outside pressure.

They could bring Frank in and keep him in jail for a YEAR before even officially charging him. That's what was done to Amanda and Raffaele. Mignini also pushed hard for solitary for them even during that year. The cops have been watching his apartment, especially since the CPJ letter. He could be in serious danger of being jailed or worse.
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I agree it is a very ugly situation and underlines what Frank has been saying,
particularly in his most recent posts.
 
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