Merged Cold Fusion Claims

[summand]

Let's see what we have so far:

First of all, Rossi does not start with a clean slate:

* Has a diploma from "Kensington University Inc.", a known diploma mill
* Was arrested as part of a money laundering operation and smuggling gold
* Was arrested for illegal trafficking waste materials (Petrodragon affair) and claimed that his "ecological conversion technology" was being suppressed.
* Has claimed to have invented thermoelectric modules with wonderous efficiency. which proved pretty much standard afterwards.

While this does prove nothing about his the cold fusion claim, it doesn't fill me with much trust.

On top of that, lots of small inconsistencies and oddities in the experiments fill me with further doubt. In the last experiment it is still unclear how dry the vapor was and because of that it is totally unclear how much energy was indeed created. Excess warm water has gone down the drain(!), so we do not know even remotely how much water was vaporized.

While the shielding was removed from some Ecats, it was not removed from the Ecat used and the observers could not look at the actual device. So we do not know, if the device actually used and the demonstration devices are equal.

Heating was done with 300 Watt and it heated the water, not the fusion chamber. Combined with the unclear data from the steam (no measurement of dryness), it might even suffice to generate the whole effect...

The claimed flow rate could not be achieved with the pump, the copper isotope ratios in the analyzed powder were "natural"(70:30), which is highly unlikely, a ratio of 99:1 would be expected... And so it goes on and on.

 

[catsmate]

I've seen lenr reactions. They are real.

Really? I'm sure you can provide the evidence that Rossi has signally failed to supply.

Quite the scam if it is one. He has a respected physicist, Focard, as a partner.

Hmm, he also has a "journal" with a dead psychologist and a chemist who'd never heard of him on it's "board".........

Walks into the physics department of a major university to demonstrate it. Leaves it with the university to study and returns to the US.

Simply untrue.

Hires the University of Bologna to study the device for an additional year.

Also untrue.

Has several impartial scientists attend demonstrations and measure input and output with their equipment. Gutsy guy he is.

It wold be, if it were true. However this is also not true.

I really don't have much more to say. We are just going to have to wait and see.

Indeed. I wonder how much money will be invested in this rubbish before it's exposed, like the previous cold fusion scams.

Remember Rossi is an inventor not a physicist.

An "inventor" with a history of fraud, remember.

Rossi wants the marketplace to be the judge.

Yes the marketplace is far easier to scam. Juts look at all the other successful frauds.

There is no accepted lenr theory. It is considered a rogue science, and it is very difficult to get lenr research published in scientific journals.

Provide repeatable evidence sufficient to pass peer review.


In the light of your blind support of him your denials of any link to Rossi are rather thin.

 

[Belz...]

So are you guys convinced heavier than air flight is possible yet?

You mean, like birds ?

 

[Belz...]

Most of you guys wouldn't believe in it if you were boiling in the water it was heating.

Ah, yes. That's even more convincing. Telling other people that they wouldn't believe Jesus was real even if they could put their fingers in his wounds.

Oh, wait. No, that isn't convincing at all.

 

[Belz...]

If Rossi's device works, it won't matter a bit that he didn't play by your rules.

Actually, the only way to demonstrate that it works is by playing by science's rules.

 

[Dancing David]

I've seen lenr reactions. They are real.

How so, what vizualization or material did you use?

 

[Dancing David]

It wouldn't matter if I wrote a book. Most of you guys wouldn't believe in it if you were boiling in the water it was heating. I don't have any inside info on rossi's invention. I am becoming more convinced daily it is for real. We are just going to have to wait and see. Quite the scam if it is one. He has a respected physicist, Focard, as a partner. Walks into the physics department of a major university to demonstrate it. Leaves it with the university to study and returns to the US. Hires the University of Bologna to study the device for an additional year. Has several impartial scientists attend demonstrations and measure input and output with their equipment. Gutsy guy he is.

I have not said that it is not happening, I do however believe that there has not been evidence presented that it is cold fusion. I also belive that while the current thoeries of physics would need to be revised if it is cold fusion, the current mainstream model is so effective in many ways that it seems unlikley.

If it is cold fusion, the WOW WAY COOL, but until that is demonstrated, then I will wait for better data and evidence.

If he was really gutsy he would have real standard protocols in place.

 

[Dancing David]

I really don't have much more to say. We are just going to have to wait and see. Remember Rossi is an inventor not a physicist. He didn't even want to do the university demo. It was Focadi's idea. Rossi wants the marketplace to be the judge. There is no accepted lenr theory. It is considered a rogue science, and it is very difficult to get lenr research published in scientific journals.

Come back in a year and I for one will say WOW WAY COOL!

The US wasted quite a bit of money on earlier versions by other people.

 

[Horatius]

If Rossi's device works, it won't matter a bit that he didn't play by your rules. If it works, it will sell. If it works it will change the world. If he's a fraud, it's still a pretty good story. Nice visiting with you guys. Good nite.

And this is what they said about Pons and Fleischmann. And about Hydrinos. And about Steorn. And probably dozens or hundreds of others.


And it's what you'll say about the next fast-talking pitch artist who tells you what you want to hear.

And this history is exactly why we insist that he "play by our rules", and dismiss him if he can't, or won't do that. Because these "rules" you are so dismissive of are the only way to avoid being taken for yet another ride by yet another fraud.

 

[nathan]

And this history is exactly why we insist that he "play by our rules", and dismiss him if he can't, or won't do that. Because these "rules" you are so dismissive of are the only way to avoid being taken for yet another ride by yet another fraud.

Can anyone think of a case where someone played from the scammer's playbook yet did come up with a breakthrough?

(I mean *any* case, not just a cold fusion instance)

 

[Cuddles]

If Rossi's device works, it won't matter a bit that he didn't play by your rules.

Actually, it will. You see, the "rules" exist for very good reasons - as ben m says, we have very easy ways of working out how much energy any given device is outputting, as well as very easy ways of taking it apart and seeing what is actually inside. As long as Rossi refuses to use any of those very easy ways - as long as he refuses to play by the rules - it won't matter a bit if his device actually works because he will be unable to demonstrate to anyone that it actually does.

If it works, it will sell.

No. If it works and it can be proven to work it will sell.

OK, that's not necessarily the case. As the history of free energy claims demonstrates, if it doesn't work it will probably still sell because an awful lot of people are just plain stupid. Ultimately, that's Rossi's only hope. Even if his claims are true, the only way it will be proven is by some idiot being fooled by his hype, buying the thing, and then accidentally finding out it works and publishing the results independently. Rossi himself will certainly never be able to prove it, since it would be utterly trivial for him to have already done so.

If he's a fraud, it's still a pretty good story.

No, not really. Free energy crackpots are ten a penny, and there's nothing particularly original or interesting about this one.

 

[unclep2k]

here's some fresh meat xttp://pesn.com/2011/05/02/9501822_NyTeknik_Validates_Rossis_Energy_Catalyzer/

 

[CriticalThanking]

here's some fresh meat xttp://pesn.com/2011/05/02/9501822_NyTeknik_Validates_Rossis_Energy_Catalyzer/

To me, "meat" implies something you can sink your teeth into and chew on. There is no additional detail we can evaluate "chew on". It is still a press release.

The only thing that will be (not "is") interesting is after the universities are given their units for true independent testing. Until then, I remain as I always was: hopeful such a revolutionary discovery is true, but not holding my breath or opening my wallet for someone not "playing by [the] rules" of science.

CT

 

[Belz...]

To me, "meat" implies something you can sink your teeth into and chew on.

Maybe he meant that this meat was for the grinder.

 

[BenBurch]

Until a still water bath test is done under non-inventor-controlled conditions, as I described earlier, we can safely assume there is nothing to see here.

I would be happy to perform this test and will waive my usual engineering fees if Rossi will cover all other costs.

 

[Jimmy42]

Works: -verb Functionality of a device that promotes investors to send money, and inhibits filing of criminal and civil complaints.

 

[Horatius]

One thing I really like about my job is, even when doing real work, I run across this stuff. While trying to find a reference for a completely different case, I managed to Google up a paper by Rossi and Focardi from March 22, 2010, that discusses their results.

www.fysik.org/WebSite/fragelada/resurser/Rossi-Focardi_paper.pdf

I haven't read this yet, but it's 34 pages long, so one would hope there's something more substantial there.

 

[catsmate]

here's some fresh meat xttp://pesn.com/2011/05/02/9501822_NyTeknik_Validates_Rossis_Energy_Catalyzer/

Wow colour me impressed; the website of a bunch of free energy and water fuel cranks boosts Rossi's rubbish.

 

[catsmate]

One thing I really like about my job is, even when doing real work, I run across this stuff. While trying to find a reference for a completely different case, I managed to Google up a paper by Rossi and Focardi from March 22, 2010, that discusses their results.

www.fysik.org/WebSite/fragelada/resurser/Rossi-Focardi_paper.pdf

I haven't read this yet, but it's 34 pages long, so one would hope there's something more substantial there.

I wouldn't be too optimistic; I've skimmed the "paper" (the first eight pages of the document) and it appears to be mainly padding. There are a lot of equations and some diagrams lifted from a freshman level physics textbook¹ and references to irrelevant papers to give a patina of respectability. He inserts phrases like:

Nevertheless we have an experimental evidence of a large energy that can only arise from nuclear reactions between Nickel and Hydrogen

without the slightest justification.

The rest of the document details the supposed testing of the device.


¹ The Atomic Nucleus, by Evans published in 1955 it would appear.

 

[unclep2k]

You guys seem to be over complicating this whole issue. Maybe overblowing your importance in the world. If his invention is legit, I imagine Rossi could care less what you guys think. If he sells the thing, and his customers utility bills go down, thats all the proof needed. If the bills stay the same or go up he's a fraud. If the utility bills go down, manufacturing competition around the world will cause a stampede to his door.