Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Chris_Halkides]

headline

Now I see what is up with the photo thing.

Spartacus,

The headline reads, "Revealed: Foxy Knoxy's sisters posing happily for 'macabre' photos at the house where Meredith Kercher died." The two sisters do not look happy to me. The person responsible for the headline deserves a large share of the blame.

 

[LondonJohn]

So, are you telling us that you think those photo's were appropriate then?

That's a whole different matter, but I appreciate the straw man that you've built. I made no judgement on whether the pictures were appropriate, but merely about whether they were salacious (which was a charge levelled at them by some).

However, now that you've asked, I don't think they should really have agreed to be photographed like this for this magazine feature at all. They shouldn't, in my view, have become part of the story. It might have been appropriate for Deanna to give a short interview and maybe one interior photograph (in her hotel room, for example) and for Ashley to have maybe supplied a short one-line quote.

But they shouldn't have allowed themselves (or been allowed) to be photographed at all these locations in Perugia, as far as I'm concerned. However, I'd utterly disagree with the Kerchers' disagreeable lawyer, Maresca, that the very act of the girls posing for a photo in front of the cottage was "macabre". That was a ludicrous comment for him to have made.

And therein lies the truth about the "PR juggernaut" that some are convinced is behind the Knox/Mellas family. The Gente interview and photos took place in mid-2009 - yet seemingly the family just winged it in Perugia and consequently made some potentially less-than-ideal decisions. The simple truth is that Gogerty Marriott does not manage the family's PR effort - it simply serves as the conduit between the family and the US media. AFAIK, pretty much all the interview requests in the US have been one-way: from the media to the family. I believe they were inundated with requests ever since November 2007, and Gogerty Marriott acts as a barrier and arranger for such interviews and appearances. Nothing more or less than that. Exactly as the company states on its website, in fact.

 

[spartacus]

Spartacus,

The headline reads, "Revealed: Foxy Knoxy's sisters posing happily for 'macabre' photos at the house where Meredith Kercher died." The two sisters do not look happy to me. The person responsible for the headline deserves a large share of the blame.

Absolutely. I'm just saying that letting those pictures be taken at all was a bad move from a publicity stand point. It has been taken out of context and made to look like they are on holiday or something.

 

[spartacus]

And therein lies the truth about the "PR juggernaut" that some are convinced is behind the Knox/Mellas family. The Gente interview and photos took place in mid-2009 - yet seemingly the family just winged it in Perugia and consequently made some potentially less-than-ideal decisions. The simple truth is that Gogerty Marriott does not manage the family's PR effort - it simply serves as the conduit between the family and the US media. AFAIK, pretty much all the interview requests in the US have been one-way: from the media to the family. I believe they were inundated with requests ever since November 2007, and Gogerty Marriott acts as a barrier and arranger for such interviews and appearances. Nothing more or less than that. Exactly as the company states on its website, in fact.

That is exactly what the situation is. And the truth is that people convinced of guilt have created this charade that there was an ongoing PR campaign which on the surface looked fairly convincing, until you dig a little below the surface and realize where this message is coming from, and that is not from the family of the victim or anyone that knows her in real life (not at the current time anyway, and the question is when if ever?)

Another point is that the father of the victim worked for a British tabloid which probably help prejudice them against AK. but the bottom line is these tabloids are pleading guilty to hacking into thousands of voice mail accounts of celebs, so why anyone would even consider them as sources when they act like such scoundrels and have demonstrated that they have absolutely no moral compass is beyond me.

 

[christianahannah]

You asked Frank on his blog, it was the very first comment in a post a couple months back. Frank responded that they could indeed appeal it.

Frank did comment in the affirmative, however, he did not supply the article which agrees. Machiavelli says it cannot be appealed (due to fast-track status), however, he did not supply the article which agrees.

I have read much of the penal code but it is difficult for me to understand as legalese is foreign language to me. From what I have researched I think it cannot be appealed but I am definitely not certain of this.

 

[katy_did]

Frank did comment in the affirmative, however, he did not supply the article which agrees. Machiavelli says it cannot be appealed (due to fast-track status), however, he did not supply the article which agrees.

I have read much of the penal code but it is difficult for me to understand as legalese is foreign language to me. From what I have researched I think it cannot be appealed but I am definitely not certain of this.

Did Machiavelli say that the mitigation cannot be appealed, as opposed to the verdict/sentence? My recollection from what Frank posted is that he was talking specifically about appealing the mitigation, while Machiavelli commented generally on the possibility of appealing the sentence but never addressed mitigation. I didn't think they were actually in disagreement, since Frank seemed to accept that the verdict/sentence couldn't be appealed. I'm going from memory though.

 

[snook1]

The only evidence of this is that Guede was not charged with burglary or theft, not the length of the sentence or the granting of mitigating factors. These charges along with staging fell on RS and AK.

I believe this was done to avoid messing with the theory of the crime, not to give Rudy a break.

It's amazing how Guede's fingerprints were on Meredith's bag, yet Knox and Sollecito were convicted of theft. It's amazing how Knox had money on her account and Sollecito was, well, rich, yet they were convicted of theft instead of Guede, who was broke, had no job and some time earlier broke into nursery in Rome.

 

[spartacus]

It's amazing how Guede's fingerprints were on Meredith's bag, yet Knox and Sollecito were convicted of theft. It's amazing how Knox had money on her account and Sollecito was, well, rich, yet they were convicted of theft instead of Guede, who was broke, had no job and some time earlier broke into nursery in Rome.

You can sing "just amazing" to the tune of the Barney song "just imagine"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5lwZulzKi0

That is the appropriate reaction to a lot of aspects of this case.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

astonishing

It's amazing how Guede's fingerprints were on Meredith's bag, yet Knox and Sollecito were convicted of theft. It's amazing how Knox had money on her account and Sollecito was, well, rich, yet they were convicted of theft instead of Guede, who was broke, had no job and some time earlier broke into nursery in Rome.

snook1,

Didn't the judges ultimately reject the theft but still convict on the charge of faking the burglary? I share your amazement that they were even charged.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

That's a whole different matter, but I appreciate the straw man that you've built. I made no judgement on whether the pictures were appropriate, but merely about whether they were salacious (which was a charge levelled at them by some).

However, now that you've asked, I don't think they should really have agreed to be photographed like this for this magazine feature at all. They shouldn't, in my view, have become part of the story. It might have been appropriate for Deanna to give a short interview and maybe one interior photograph (in her hotel room, for example) and for Ashley to have maybe supplied a short one-line quote.

But they shouldn't have allowed themselves (or been allowed) to be photographed at all these locations in Perugia, as far as I'm concerned. However, I'd utterly disagree with the Kerchers' disagreeable lawyer, Maresca, that the very act of the girls posing for a photo in front of the cottage was "macabre". That was a ludicrous comment for him to have made.

And therein lies the truth about the "PR juggernaut" that some are convinced is behind the Knox/Mellas family. The Gente interview and photos took place in mid-2009 - yet seemingly the family just winged it in Perugia and consequently made some potentially less-than-ideal decisions. The simple truth is that Gogerty Marriott does not manage the family's PR effort - it simply serves as the conduit between the family and the US media. AFAIK, pretty much all the interview requests in the US have been one-way: from the media to the family. I believe they were inundated with requests ever since November 2007, and Gogerty Marriott acts as a barrier and arranger for such interviews and appearances. Nothing more or less than that. Exactly as the company states on its website, in fact.

I don't see any reason for a website dedicated to Meredith Kercher to post pictures of Amanda's youngest sisters but there seems to be some confusion about what the anger was all about regarding PMF's coverage of the youngest sisters. That group decided to search out and browse through the youngest sister's facebook accounts and then discuss what they found. There was absolutely no reason for that group to make any effort at all to view those accounts. Their excuse was that they were looking out for the well being of the girls. Yeah, that's it.

 

[LondonJohn]

Did Machiavelli say that the mitigation cannot be appealed, as opposed to the verdict/sentence? My recollection from what Frank posted is that he was talking specifically about appealing the mitigation, while Machiavelli commented generally on the possibility of appealing the sentence but never addressed mitigation. I didn't think they were actually in disagreement, since Frank seemed to accept that the verdict/sentence couldn't be appealed. I'm going from memory though.

Dobro veče!

I have taken to liberally peppering my posts with Serbian, since it seems to have touched a nerve with a person who's not shy of exhibiting a knowledge of another European language

Srbija je predivna zemlja! The Italian criminal code Article 443 para 3 states that in the case of a fast-track trial, the prosecution cannot appeal the sentence, unless the appeal introduces new offences.

"Sviđa mi se srpski!", as Blaise Pascal once said

 

[LondonJohn]

I don't see any reason for a website dedicated to Meredith Kercher to post pictures of Amanda's youngest sisters but there seems to be some confusion about what the anger was all about regarding PMF's coverage of the youngest sisters. That group decided to search out and browse through the youngest sister's facebook accounts and then discuss what they found. There was absolutely no reason for that group to make any effort at all to view those accounts. Their excuse was that they were looking out for the well being of the girls. Yeah, that's it.

I agree totally with you, and in fact in an earlier post (prior to the one you quoted above) I hope I represented your position correctly:

And, in response to a direct question, I believe (although most of this happened before I became interested in the case) that Bruce Fisher and others were not complaining about the posting of the photos of the girls outside the cottage per se, but rather they were complaining about the excess digging into the girls' lives (including, apparently, attempts to access their Facebook accounts), and the mocking of the girls' emotional behaviour.

 

[spartacus]

More Serbian! More Serbian! Ha ha ha!!

 

[katy_did]

Dobro veče!

I have taken to liberally peppering my posts with Serbian, since it seems to have touched a nerve with a person who's not shy of exhibiting a knowledge of another European language

Srbija je predivna zemlja! The Italian criminal code Article 443 para 3 states that in the case of a fast-track trial, the prosecution cannot appeal the sentence, unless the appeal introduces new offences.

"Sviđa mi se srpski!", as Blaise Pascal once said

"Nimis vīnī bibere coepī itaque iam plānē madidus sum", as we say in Ancient Rome.

Yes, I think Frank acknowledged that the sentence itself can't be appealed, but suggested that the mitigating circumstances applied to the sentence can. If he's right, then perhaps mitigation is considered a separate issue from the verdict and the sentence and so is judged separately.

 

[Justinian2]

Another interesting thing about the break-in at my house was that the robbers moved two lotion bottles in front of the statue of the Virgin Mary. It's as if they didn't want her to see. Or they didn't want to see her as they committed the crime.

Flashback to the Meredith murder. Guede covered the body, gave her a pillow and closed the door. He also had sex with her - as a serial murderer would.

The robbers at my house and Guede all treated inanimate objects as if they were alive.

Anybody know anything about this characteristic? Is there a name for it?

Is my wife in danger?

 

[theRealBob]

It's amazing how Guede's fingerprints were on Meredith's bag, yet Knox and Sollecito were convicted of theft. It's amazing how Knox had money on her account and Sollecito was, well, rich, yet they were convicted of theft instead of Guede, who was broke, had no job and some time earlier broke into nursery in Rome.

This was another item I could have added to my criticism of Masse's court-like thing.

I also could have said that during the entire duration of a controverisial trial with slimey evidence regularly disappearing, or more importantly slipping down the slime hole Massei failed to direct one single or searching question toward the offensive offence.

Massei simply acted as a prosecution goalie saving every scrap of evidence litter he could scrounge.

One additional factor in this is that short guys like Massei and Mignini bond. I know a few from the clubs around here and the short guys do get to know each other and realy do really bond. Must get worse when you're getting older and looking for friends in retirement.

 

[theRealBob]

Another interesting thing about the break-in at my house was that the robbers moved two lotion bottles in front of the statue of the Virgin Mary. It's as if they didn't want her to see. Or they didn't want to see her as they committed the crime.

Flashback to the Meredith murder. Guede covered the body, gave her a pillow and closed the door. He also had sex with her - as a serial murderer would.

The robbers at my house and Guede all treated inanimate objects as if they were alive.

Anybody know anything about this characteristic? Is there a name for it?

Is my wife in danger?

I'd certainly keep her away from Mignini.

 

[theRealBob]

Where did Filomena make the claim that her room was nice and neat and clean when she left it?

Just a comment on an old post.

Filomena is a liar.

Look at the washing machine rubbish.

She is also susceptible to manipualtion like Patrick and a few other figures at the heart of the case.

And she obviously dislikes Amanda.

Well that's it for today, I think I'll nip off and do a quick cartwheel...

 

[spartacus]

Just a comment on an old post.

Filomena is a liar.

Look at the washing machine rubbish.

She is also susceptible to manipualtion like Patrick and a few other figures at the heart of the case.

And she obviously dislikes Amanda.

Well that's it for today, I think I'll nip off and do a quick cartwheel...

Clearly the Italians threw the American under the bus on this one. I think it is because she didn't feel a strong bond and decided to save herself when the cops got rough. In Micheli she says she isn't sure that she closed the shutters but in Massei... surprise! She has closed the shutters. Memory gets better with time, thanks cops! She also says she was in a hurry to get to the train, and the prosecution latched onto AK's statement that she was normally tidy. But any casual glance at the picture of the room shows a normally untidy room like any college student, it obviously was not "tossed" as the prosecution says. Why are all the items still on the desk top??

What is the washing machine rubbish?

 

[Bruce Fischer]

I agree totally with you, and in fact in an earlier post (prior to the one you quoted above) I hope I represented your position correctly:

Thanks LondonJohn. I apologize for not reading through the posts more thoroughly. You have it exactly right.