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Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Added to that, he had been blinded by a photographer's flash. I have seen a flash photograph of the occupants of the car, taken through the windscreen from directly in front. It was described as "shortly before the crash". IMV that action of letting off a flash in front of the driver would have been enough to cause the crash on its own.

To get back on-topic, Coulsdon's comparison of JFK/Princess Diana CTs with the well-founded evidence for the Perugia stitch-up is laughable, and can only be explained by this: his view of reality is based solely on what the establishment tells him, and not on any facts that he can find for himself. That's why he continually refers back to decisions of the Perugia courts, and seems unable to discuss any actual evidence.

In the case of the JFK, Diana and 9/11 CTs, I agree with you - a few unanswered questions don't contradict the official accounts which are broadly coherent and supported by facts. In the Perugia case, the official version is completely incoherent and unbelievable, while it's the innocence campaigners' account that is entirely convincing. Only blind faith in officialdom could fail to see the difference.

Plus I think some people just need to see it on television. The litany of the fried computers, the attribution of Raffaele's footprints being discovered leading to the desperate return to the crime scene. I think there's something else that might come off as 'revealing' here, as I recall the day before Amanda had been 'interviewed' by Mignini where she told him about the 'bathmat boogie.' Then they go out and 'find' those luminol-enhanced footprints, then hide the failed TMB test and don't bother to do a confirmatory test.

The repeated lies told to the press, and especially the missing tapes...this whole thing really resembles a 70's movie when you stop and think of it. It needs rear-wheel drive gas-guzzling leaded gas behemoths built before the catalytic converter, and plaid polyester suits with wide ties to truly bring out the effect!
 
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The International Journalism Festival in Perugia last month had a panel on the AK case that included Andrea Vogt

http://www.journalismfestival.com/events/media-treatment-of-the-meredith-kercher-murder-case/

She wrote the infamous "I was there" article for the seattlepi.com

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Italian-judges-report-Amanda-Knox-says-she-was-1034687.php

Turns out "I was there" referred to at RS house, not the murder scene, which she knew and willfully reported as a "story" anyway.
 
carnival

Just a general response really to your post. I have just finished watching the “Kennedy’s” miniseries over here, there are people who will never accept the official version of JFK’s assassination, and there are people who actually believe that the movie JFK is historically accurate. My wife believes Princess Diana was killed by powerful forces within the UK establishment because she was dating Dodi Fayed. In short people believe what they choose to believe at the end of the day in this case the verdict of the appeal jury will decide Raffaele and Amanda’s fate.
highlighting mine
CoulsdonUK,
I agree with the section I highlighted. I have heard it said that the first jury did not even consider a verdict of not guilty but rather what the penalty should be. IMO, they came up with a verdict that contradicted physics and physiology but it was what they wanted to believe. What I don't agree with is the implication in your words that if a miscarriage of justice has occurred, it is safe to leave it in the hands of locals. This did not work in Corsicana TX, Durham NC, Norfolk VA, or Tulia Tx, and I am not convinced it will work here. It took NC state attorney general Roy Cooper to put an end to North Carolina's embarrassment known as the Duke lacrosse case. It may take an outside person to end this carnival.
 
The International Journalism Festival in Perugia last month had a panel on the AK case that included Andrea Vogt

http://www.journalismfestival.com/events/media-treatment-of-the-meredith-kercher-murder-case/

She wrote the infamous "I was there" article for the seattlepi.com

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Italian-judges-report-Amanda-Knox-says-she-was-1034687.php

Turns out "I was there" referred to at RS house, not the murder scene, which she knew and willfully reported as a "story" anyway.

I'd say this sums up Andrea Vogt:

Also included are Knox's DNA on a knife alleged to have been used in the murder; Guede's own statements about Knox's presence that night; Knox's bare footprint revealed by Luminol (a chemical agent used to detect blood traces); mixed genetic traces of Kercher and Knox in the sink and bidet; and the testimony of neighbors Nara Capezzali and Alessandra Formica, and homeless man Antonio Curatolo.

The report also lists evidence against Sollecito.

I missed actually reading this in full the first time around, I just caught excerpts from the delighted guilt faction--the newer ones at least who thought it was real 'news.' No wonder some people were so pissed off! I didn't quite 'get' that, until I read the piece in full. This is dreadfully biased, and in particular against Amanda Knox, not so much Raffaele or even Rudy whose goose being cooked is supposedly the reason for the story. She gives 'his side' of the story and even minimizes the evidence against him, not so with Amanda, whom she pretends with the opening paragraph actually 'admitted' to being at the scene.

Isn't there another court case where she could be drooling all over the judges? Aren't there still hikers in Iran? I know they let the girl go, but are the guys still there? Why doesn't the Seattle PI 'reassign' her to that story so she can moon over the brilliance of their judiciary, and the 'guilt' of the poor guys entrapped by it? :p
 
I pointed out the error in the comments section, which appears to be the first time it was ever directly challenged on their site. It looks like she deliberately misrepresented a comment whose real basis she knew about.
 
Interesting that the response notes that they've had many emails which "question the accuracy of our letter as well as our motives for writing it", which they say are linked to the frog's "open letter". One can only imagine the weird individuals firing off their battery of emails to the CPJ, with their variety of over-invested rantings and poor spelling/grammar....

Maybe so, LJ.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7132409#post7132409
 
Could you give an example? I'm curious what you think is 'spin.'



Maybe they looked at the list of Italian journalists who've had investigations started and/or charges filed on them in connection to this case? How many is it now?

5 from the TV station
2 from Oggi
1 from that local paper, Giornale dell 'Umbria

Is that it? It's certainly enough.

I need to correct this. I had gotten it into my mind that there were only two of the Sollecito family charged, the father and sister, and it was 5 journalists from Telenorba. I had it backwards, it was five members of Raffaele's family and two from the TV station.

I need a draft board for all these details!
 
I pointed out the error in the comments section, which appears to be the first time it was ever directly challenged on their site. It looks like she deliberately misrepresented a comment whose real basis she knew about.

Really? They must have deleted some comments then, that kicked up an awful fuss in some quarters, I'd have thought the comments section would be overrun. I was actually wondering why it was considered so bad. I should have just read the damn article.

I hadn't because I'd noted in past articles she'd put something like 'twenty-five judges approved' the conviction, or relaying Mignini's and Maresca's claims of impending doom for Raffaele and Amanda via Guede's conviction, and figured it was just a jarring bit of 'balance' put into her reports. I'd read previous articles which were much better than this one, which looked like it could have been written by Mignini himself.

Well, I suppose that's one way of avoiding a calunnia (or other) charge... ;)
 
Really? They must have deleted some comments then, that kicked up an awful fuss in some quarters, I'd have thought the comments section would be overrun. I was actually wondering why it was considered so bad. I should have just read the damn article.

I hadn't because I'd noted in past articles she'd put something like 'twenty-five judges approved' the conviction, or relaying Mignini's and Maresca's claims of impending doom for Raffaele and Amanda via Guede's conviction, and figured it was just a jarring bit of 'balance' put into her reports. I'd read previous articles which were much better than this one, which looked like it could have been written by Mignini himself.

Well, I suppose that's one way of avoiding a calunnia (or other) charge... ;)

My comment there was the first one. I don't really know what is going on with that. I read about the article on injusticeinperugia.org and googled it and there it was, without comments or corrections, in a Seattle paper of all places. Weird! It seems like her and that other fluid in Italian lady who covered the whole trial were writing copy from the view of judges and prosecutors, e.g. the "I was there" was in the judge's report even though everyone knew it was taken out of context, and she reported on it anyway. Weird. I hope they stop using her for the Seattle papers at least.

This is really interesting. The interview with Barbie Nadeau on the Ron and Don Show in Seattle (radio). Note the word "student killer" is in the title of her book.

“No one knows exactly what happened to Meredith Kercher or how she was murdered. We know she died of multiple knife wounds to her neck and that she was sexually assaulted but until there’s a confession there’s really not going to be any real story into what happened that night. I think, as I said, the purpose of the book is just to give perspective into the trial itself and to investigation and to the situation in Perugia,” Naseau said.

“Well, if you don’t know what happened,” Don asked, “then how can you call it the ‘True Story of a Student Killer Amanda Knox’. You just admitted that you don’t know what happened.”

Naseau said, “Well, nobody knows what happened. I don’t think Amanda Knox knows what happened even if perhaps she was even there in that room that night. I think the story of how she was convicted is the story I’m telling, and the story of the investigation and what happened. You know, Meredith Kercher’s murder is one of the great mysteries, I think. If you look at true crime stories, it’s one of those stories that nobody really knows ….”

Don interrupted, saying, “So what you’re saying, Barbie, is there’s a possibility that Amanda Knox didn’t commit this murder?”

“Well, uh, Amanda Knox is one of three people who were convicted of the sexual assault and murder. No one is saying she committed this murder alone. You know, uh, I think there’s a lot of evidence that shows that she was complacent in some way and I lay that out in the book. I think very clearly that what the jury heard and what was used to convict her of this crime. Her appeal will probably be very interesting. They will present some new evidence that will most likely bring out a new witness or two here and there,” Nadeau said.

http://www.examiner.com/headlines-i...-released-book-about-amanda-knox?render=print
 
I wrote this comment on CPJ.org:

I would like to thank the Committee to Protect Journalists for their dedication to the safety and well being of journalists throughout the world. Frank has been under extreme pressure and it is comforting to see his situation receiving this much needed attention.

The group Kermit represents has a vision of a superhuman PR firm that can manipulate all aspects of the media. Kermit's group honestly believes that the CPJ letter voicing concern for journalists in Perugia, Italy, is part of a grand scheme put together by this magical PR firm they love to talk about.

Constant repetition of the PR firm fantasy has been damaging to Amanda Knox but has done nothing to give the allegation any credibility. The truth is Amanda's family hired a PR firm to organize interviews with the media. There was a media storm surrounding their daughter and they had every right to voice their support. The situation was new to them so looking for professional guidance was not out of the ordinary. This firm is not made up of super villains equipped with the capability of taking over every major news outlet in the world like Kermit and his group would like you to believe. As long as Kermit's group continues to voice this absurd nonsense, I don't think they warrant any attention at all.


I was told that my credibility was destroyed by writing falsehoods about the PR firm. I was given this link to prove me wrong: http://www.gogertymarriott.com/showcase/amanda_knox

If you read the information provided on the Gogerty Marriott website, you will see that my description of the PR firm's involvement was right on target. The lies regarding the PR firm need to stop. I have no idea how anyone could read the information provided and come to the conclusion that there is a PR firm "supertanker" that has complete control over the media coverage of Amanda Knox.
 
My comment there was the first one. I don't really know what is going on with that. I read about the article on injusticeinperugia.org and googled it and there it was, without comments or corrections, in a Seattle paper of all places. Weird! It seems like her and that other fluid in Italian lady who covered the whole trial were writing copy from the view of judges and prosecutors, e.g. the "I was there" was in the judge's report even though everyone knew it was taken out of context, and she reported on it anyway. Weird. I hope they stop using her for the Seattle papers at least.

I don't think that's possible, she has a contract. She's been on this story for a while, so she must have known that was utter tripe about the 'I was there.' She's written better stuff before, her entry on Amanda's testimony was very complimentary, but this one I just read, probably the only one I'd skipped of late, was horrific.

What I found most interesting was that she'd quoted a PMFer as a 'DNA expert' or somesuch, who was currently working in the fashion field. Previously she had some twelve or so years in some sort of scientific field, and a BS in Biology as I recall, but that's an awfully strange place to be quote-mining for scientific subjects. I understood the time she was photographed with PMF on the screen, as I can certainly understand using it as a resource--I do myself, many do. However I think I understand why some thought she'd sold out body and soul when they read that piece, it's simply...inexcusable.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact the version of the Massei Report on the Seattle PI website went dark a couple weeks back? I liked that version better, easier to read without the bracketed Italian.


This is really interesting. The interview with Barbie Nadeau on the Ron and Don Show in Seattle (radio). Note the word "student killer" is in the title of her book.

“No one knows exactly what happened to Meredith Kercher or how she was murdered. We know she died of multiple knife wounds to her neck and that she was sexually assaulted but until there’s a confession there’s really not going to be any real story into what happened that night. I think, as I said, the purpose of the book is just to give perspective into the trial itself and to investigation and to the situation in Perugia,” Naseau said.

“Well, if you don’t know what happened,” Don asked, “then how can you call it the ‘True Story of a Student Killer Amanda Knox’. You just admitted that you don’t know what happened.”

Naseau said, “Well, nobody knows what happened. I don’t think Amanda Knox knows what happened even if perhaps she was even there in that room that night. I think the story of how she was convicted is the story I’m telling, and the story of the investigation and what happened. You know, Meredith Kercher’s murder is one of the great mysteries, I think. If you look at true crime stories, it’s one of those stories that nobody really knows ….”

Don interrupted, saying, “So what you’re saying, Barbie, is there’s a possibility that Amanda Knox didn’t commit this murder?”

“Well, uh, Amanda Knox is one of three people who were convicted of the sexual assault and murder. No one is saying she committed this murder alone. You know, uh, I think there’s a lot of evidence that shows that she was complacent in some way and I lay that out in the book. I think very clearly that what the jury heard and what was used to convict her of this crime. Her appeal will probably be very interesting. They will present some new evidence that will most likely bring out a new witness or two here and there,” Nadeau said.

http://www.examiner.com/headlines-i...-released-book-about-amanda-knox?render=print

Did they really spell her name wrong twice? LOL! Serves her right, you should have seen how she butchered Hellmann's name when he allowed the DNA re-tests. I made fun of it recently but managed to spell it wrong myself, as LJ subtly noted when he made his return. :)

Her book didn't get many good reviews, even amongst the some of the PMF faction, but I was thinking of buying it anyway for completion's sake when I finally went to pick up "Murder in Italy." However they wanted twice as much for about half the content, much of which I knew was...inaccurate...and while money wasn't the issue, the principle of the thing dismayed me. I'll wait until it's half the price of Dempsey's book, then I won't feel cheated.

I find it hilarious she thinks it's a 'great mystery.' She was right there in the middle of it flapping her skirts at Mignini and she never figured it out. It's really not that tough. All you have to be is at least slightly skeptical of authorities that tell you silly things. I can't help but note she bought into Mignini's 'PR Conspiracy'--and in Mignini's mind it is a conspiracy centered in Italy of all places--and helped sell that fantasy too.

However she was good at getting the lowdown on some dirty dealings as well, from the HIV test to the failure of the prosecution to appeal Rudy's sentence as part of a 'deal' which along with his fast track and possible future reductions means he might be back on the streets by the time he's thirty.

Where was Maresca as the voice of vengeance there? He demanded nine months solitary for Amanda to start her sentence as I recall, yet didn't press for Rudy to at least serve the maximum possible sentence under fast track? That just occurred to me, where was the Jackal when Rudy was getting his 'deal?'
 
PR supertanker

Bruce,

The idea that there is a big, bad PR supertanker working for Knox is one of the things that might actually belong in the CT threads here, despite my reservations about the whole concept of a CT section. If the Knox PR machine resembled any ship, it would be more like the Edmund Fitzgerald. Maybe we can persuade Gordon Lightfoot to write a song....
 
unappealing action

However she was good at getting the lowdown on some dirty dealings as well, from the HIV test to the failure of the prosecution to appeal Rudy's sentence as part of a 'deal' which along with his fast track and possible future reductions means he might be back on the streets by the time he's thirty.

Where was Maresca as the voice of vengeance there? He demanded nine months solitary for Amanda to start her sentence as I recall, yet didn't press for Rudy to at least serve the maximum possible sentence under fast track? That just occurred to me, where was the Jackal when Rudy was getting his 'deal?'
Kaosium,
Good point about Maresca. I know that Raffaele also spent some time in solitary, but I do not have the exact length of time. The failure of the prosecution to appeal Rudy's mitigation to the Supreme Court is most troubling.
 
Kaosium,
Good point about Maresca. I know that Raffaele also spent some time in solitary, but I do not have the exact length of time. The failure of the prosecution to appeal Rudy's mitigation to the Supreme Court is most troubling.

Yes, it appears that Rudy, the career criminal, knew best how to play the system. Comes back to Perugia, takes the rap, goes for the fast track trial, serves a laughably brief sentence given the enormity of his offense, and he's back on the street almost before Amanda and Raffaele are exonerated. And he will kill again.
 
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Her book didn't get many good reviews, even amongst the some of the PMF faction, but I was thinking of buying it anyway for completion's sake when I finally went to pick up "Murder in Italy." However they wanted twice as much for about half the content, much of which I knew was...inaccurate...and while money wasn't the issue, the principle of the thing dismayed me. I'll wait until it's half the price of Dempsey's book, then I won't feel cheated.
Hey Kaosium,
My opinion only, but I bet that you would have fun tearin' apart Barbie's book here on the JREF.:D
 
Kaosium,
Good point about Maresca. I know that Raffaele also spent some time in solitary, but I do not have the exact length of time. The failure of the prosecution to appeal Rudy's mitigation to the Supreme Court is most troubling.

Well there is some confusion whether the prosecution was/is able to appeal mitigation for fast-track trials. I have searched the penal code and have found some evidence saying no, they can't, but I am not certain of this.

Maresca filed the civil suit during Rudy's trial and before Micheli ruled that there was enough evidence for Amanda or Raffaele to proceed to trial. I don't believe Maresca has had leniency or nice words for Rudy, as well as Amanda or Raffaele.
 
Yes, it appears that Rudy, the career criminal, knew best how to play the system. Comes back to Perugia, takes the rap, goes for the fast track trial, serves a laughably brief sentence given the enormity of his offense, and he's back on the street almost before Amanda and Raffaele are exonerated. And he will kill again.

Hard to argue with this. One of the saddest aspects of miscarriages of justice is that the wrongly-accused often fare worse than the rightly-convicted, for the simple reason that the system demands that they "acknowledge" their crime. And as you point out, people completely unconnected with criminal behaviour are often those least equipped to "play the system" and obtain favourable treatment.

In this case, perhaps the most disturbing aspect is the way Rudy Guede has been treated favourably by those blinded by vindictiveness towards Amanda and Raffaele.
 
He will kill again?

Yes, it appears that Rudy, the career criminal, knew best how to play the system. Comes back to Perugia, takes the rap, goes for the fast track trial, serves a laughably brief sentence given the enormity of his offense, and he's back on the street almost before Amanda and Raffaele are exonerated. And he will kill again.
Hi BabyCondor,
I disagree.
I've known a few career criminals, they've been busted time and time again and spent many years of their life in+out of prison. As far as I know, Rudy Guede had not, hence I do not believe that he was a career criminal. It seems that he had just recently turned onto that road though when he was involved in Miss Kercher's brutal murder.

I also disagree with your last sentence. Rudy Guede has not been convicted of any other murders, nor was he a suspect in any other murders that I am aware of. So why do you, a fellow innocentisti, believe that Rudy Guede will kill again? Isn't the whole purpose of prison to make a person pay for their crime by imposing a sentence of incarceration, thereby denying them their own personal freedom, while also hopefully rehabilitating the convicted person so that they may re-enter society again? Don't you think that Rudy Guede could be rehabilitated?

However, if Rudy was to commit another horrible crime once he gets out of jail, I'd place my $$$ down that this would be the crime of rape. From what I have read, it seems more convicted rapists rape again than non-serial killers kill again. But what do I really know?

Anyways, I hope neither happens, ever again...
RW
 
I wrote this comment on CPJ.org:

I would like to thank the Committee to Protect Journalists for their dedication to the safety and well being of journalists throughout the world. Frank has been under extreme pressure and it is comforting to see his situation receiving this much needed attention.

The group Kermit represents has a vision of a superhuman PR firm that can manipulate all aspects of the media. Kermit's group honestly believes that the CPJ letter voicing concern for journalists in Perugia, Italy, is part of a grand scheme put together by this magical PR firm they love to talk about.

Constant repetition of the PR firm fantasy has been damaging to Amanda Knox but has done nothing to give the allegation any credibility. The truth is Amanda's family hired a PR firm to organize interviews with the media. There was a media storm surrounding their daughter and they had every right to voice their support. The situation was new to them so looking for professional guidance was not out of the ordinary. This firm is not made up of super villains equipped with the capability of taking over every major news outlet in the world like Kermit and his group would like you to believe. As long as Kermit's group continues to voice this absurd nonsense, I don't think they warrant any attention at all.


I was told that my credibility was destroyed by writing falsehoods about the PR firm. I was given this link to prove me wrong: http://www.gogertymarriott.com/showcase/amanda_knox

If you read the information provided on the Gogerty Marriott website, you will see that my description of the PR firm's involvement was right on target. The lies regarding the PR firm need to stop. I have no idea how anyone could read the information provided and come to the conclusion that there is a PR firm "supertanker" that has complete control over the media coverage of Amanda Knox.

Then again there's the old adage 'Never interfere when your opponent is in the process of destroying themselves.'

Just reading that...they're carrying their 'PR conspiracy' nonsense right into the heart of the Forth Estate, pretending they 'know' something about it whilst parroting 'suspicion' of that line "earned and paid media" not realizing what it means! For crissakes I told one of them what it was two weeks ago, if there was anything actually 'sinister' about it does anyone in their right mind think it would be on their website?

They're smearing Douglas Preston with mindless 'suspicion,' allegations of corruption and salacious excerpts, they're making the case that it's OK to abuse Frank because he uses a thinly disguised pseudonym and wholly unsupported 'suspicion' that his charges aren't related to the Kercher case even though it was five 'heroes' of November 6th that showed up on his doorstep and claimed he had 'beaten' them, they're attacking the 'credibility' of the CPJ with absurd allegations they obviously know more about--as in what information they relied upon in writing their letter.

In short, they've displayed before an organization dedicated to the rights of journalists overseas that none of that matters to them if said journalists don't support their point of view. That they're a bunch of vindictive cranks who will stoop to any smear, and they have no idea what they're talking about. Ignorant, bilious, hate-mongering crackpots.

I betcha the CPJ simply responded to that 'open letter' because it was posted on a site that claims it's dedicated to the memory of Meredith Kercher. Now the CPJ knows that pretense is a fraud, as does anyone with an interest in the rights of journalists abroad, which might just include some people who may be about to report on the upcoming appeal...

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it."

--Voltaire
 
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Bruce,

The idea that there is a big, bad PR supertanker working for Knox is one of the things that might actually belong in the CT threads here, despite my reservations about the whole concept of a CT section. If the Knox PR machine resembled any ship, it would be more like the Edmund Fitzgerald. Maybe we can persuade Gordon Lightfoot to write a song....


Fellas, it's been good to know ya.....
 
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