Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[platonov]

What piece of 'evidence' did Gunter tell you was legitimate?
Steve Moore said something interesting, that he could 'guarantee' that the DNA 'evidence' would be thrown out. Now, perhaps that was hyperbole, or a figure of speech much like Joe Namath's 'guarantee' was, but he has said he's talked to Italian forensic experts and they share his views.

What will you think if both the bra clasp and 'murder knife' are thrown into the Tiber where they belong, rusting away in its muck?

He knows the situation and he's taking stock !

 

[platonov]

If you want some more of the inside track let me know ?

 

[Kaosium]

If you want some more of the inside track let me know ?

I'm guessing this reference to 'Gunter' is from a TV series or movie I haven't seen. However, it could also be due to the fact there's probably quite a few guys with names like Gunter, Hans, Jacques, and Jean-Claude who are following this case very closely and pretty much know how it's going to turn out...

 

[platonov]

I'm guessing this reference to 'Gunter' is from a TV series or movie I haven't seen. However, it could also be due to the fact there's probably quite a few guys with names like Gunter, Hans, Jacques, and Jean-Claude who are following this case very closely and pretty much know how it's going to turn out...

No. But if you want.....

I think I'll ring him up now, put him on the spot !

 

[platonov]

No. But if you want.....

I think I'll ring him up now, put him on the spot !

Kaosium

Are you interested - when is good for you ?

 

[Kaosium]

Kaosium

Are you interested - when is good for you ?

Ring him up, though you've totally lost me by now.

I've been saying for months that the bra clasp and 'murder knife' are history. What is your prediction?

 

[platonov]

for every paranoid's desire... [story of these knox threads]

Ring him up, though you've totally lost me by now.

I've been saying for months that the bra clasp and 'murder knife' are history. What is your prediction?

OK

Tonight !

Na na na na Naa

 

[Matthew Best]

Someone's getting desperate.

 

[RoseMontague]

He has been hiding from the truth ever since the CPJ letter was made public. Frank™ fans have to take the time out to hold his feet to the fire. Will Rose be the first? Don't disappoint me, Rose!

What truth is Frank hiding from?

 

[RoseMontague]

This quote to me seems to be what Frank considers the truth. I think he has taken the gloves off and I don't believe Mignini is going to be very happy with this one.

In Perugia, they are nice people; perfect. Mignini guarantees it. They, indeed, as we know, have disappeared.
The ones from Rome said goodbye right on November 6: Giobbi ran to hang the picture of Amanda on the wall of criminals. Profazio, after the masterpiece of Perugia, went to sign the one of Caffarella, too...
The ones from Perugia, instead, disappeared during the appeal trial, as soon as the wind changed.
They can try to be forgotten. They can lie in court. They can libel and slander people. There’s no problem, indeed, they know the prosecution will defend them!
Mignini, indeed, for some reason, defends these people.
It’s clear, then, who leads that police station. If that place is the mirror of perfection, we have to thank Mignini.
If, instead, it had turned into a gang of criminals, He would be its absolute chief.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

We appear to have very different ideas of what 'spin' is. Most here consider it trying to put the best face on a story or an event with the media, thus you 'spin' the story to the media, the media doesn't spin it of its own accord. The media gets spun sometimes, but it doesn't generate it.

[/hilite]

See, I'd consider this a particularly disingenuous 'spin' on the event. Is that really why the reporters are being charged? Or is that a 'cover story' to obscure the real reason being that they were embarrassed on TV by the revelation of their incompetence?

Interesting so what was or is your view on “foxy knoxy” moniker, is that the media spinning or the media being spun? I guess I am more cynical than you about the 24/7 media.

Here in the UK, journalist have been charged with listening to politicians and others cell phone voice mails and in some cases writing stories based on those interceptions, I don’t believe those methods are remotely justified or in the public good, because the information was obtained illegally, but that’s me.

Not sure why you view the highlighted text as disingenuous, it was a question based on the list you provided. However, it is fact that members of Sollecito family and others have been charged and there will be a trial, wanting to prove Raffaele’s innocence does not in my opinion justify breaking a law.

I believe there is an American term for what I am describing above “fruit of the poisonous tree”, this certainly applies in the case of the UK journalist but also for me in the case of the alleged actions the Sollecito’s and others, if they are proven to have broken the law then their actions cannot be justified.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

reporters' behavior

Here in the UK, journalist have been charged with listening to politicians and others cell phone voice mails and in some cases writing stories based on those interceptions, I don’t believe those methods are remotely justified or in the public good, because the information was obtained illegally, but that’s me.

CoulsdonUK,

Some of the letters Amanda sent home never got there, but their text ended up in British papers, because reporters had raided the mailboxes. What do you think about that?

 

[Dan O.]

I believe there is an American term for what I am describing above “fruit of the poisonous tree”, this certainly applies in the case of the UK journalist but also for me in the case of the alleged actions the Sollecito’s and others, if they are proven to have broken the law then their actions cannot be justified.

Fruit of the poisonous tree^WP is a term applied to evidence gathered illegally as in unauthorized wiretaps, searches without proper warrants or interrogations taken without proper legal safeguards such as miranda warnings and the right to have a lawyer. To allow the fruit of such illegal activity to be used as evidence in court would be to nullify the legal protections against such official misconduct.

 

[Matthew Best]

if they are proven to have broken the law then their actions cannot be justified.

I'll be sure to pass on that message to Rosa Parks.

 

[babycondor]

... if they are proven to have broken the law then their actions cannot be justified.

Rather a harsh view. Do you believe that anyone following their own conscience rather than human law "cannot be justified"? All forms of civil disobedience: unjustified? Ghandi, The Velvet Revolution, the American Civil Rights movement: unjustified?

If you meant that if they are proven to have broken the law, they should be punished, I might agree with you. But to dismiss all such actions as "unjustified" demonstrates a lack of awareness of morally justifiable responses to abuses of power and repressive or unjust laws.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Stilicho: "The way things sit, nobody has any solid evidence either way even though Kermit's version is considerably different than Frank's™ is."

Can someone explain to me how it's possible for Kermit to have a "version?" Did Kermit witness the multiple interactions between Frank and the authorities? Was Kermit on Frank's couch when Frank was assaulted in his own home by a group of thugs?

The Committee to Protect Journalists is a well respected organization that has serious concerns about how reporters are being treated in Perugia, Italy. That's the way things "sit." This is not Frank's word against Kermit's. 10 or 12 people online will believe that Kermit is the authority in this matter. The rest of the world will see reality.

 

[Kaosium]

Interesting so what was or is your view on “foxy knoxy” moniker, is that the media spinning or the media being spun? I guess I am more cynical than you about the 24/7 media.

Tabloid trash. Gossip gone public. I see your point and don't want to engage in semantics, there is an element of 'spin' involved in 'infotainment,' though it is a predictable and banal one and expected of that genre. In this case it appears to me it was originally the attempt of the prosecution to defame the character of the defendants in the eyes of potential jurors, then taken to absurd lengths by the fervent imaginations of the tabloids and the paparazzi.

Here in the UK, journalist have been charged with listening to politicians and others cell phone voice mails and in some cases writing stories based on those interceptions, I don’t believe those methods are remotely justified or in the public good, because the information was obtained illegally, but that’s me.

I'd say that sums up the 'Foxy Knoxy' campaign in whole and in part. They took 'leaked' diaries and phone calls and 'spun' them as salaciously and as detrimentally as they could. The Daily Mail paid Patrick Lumumba 70k Euros for the 'soulless' smear, they went all the way to Seattle waving around fist-fulls of dollars in order to get what they wanted, in the latter case rather less than they expected I would imagine.

Not sure why you view the highlighted text as disingenuous, it was a question based on the list you provided. However, it is fact that members of Sollecito family and others have been charged and there will be a trial, wanting to prove Raffaele’s innocence does not in my opinion justify breaking a law.

I wrote that because on no level is the fact that a couple fuzzy frames of the victim were revealed a reason for the charge. The official reason was something to the effect of 'interfering in an investigation' which was Mignini's old standby when he was partnered with Michele Giuttari and which got him convicted of abuse of power. The real reason in my view is they humiliated the police, not out of capriciousness, but in the interests of justice. Real journalism, for the best of reasons, not the worst. You seemed to be trying to justify it with 'noble aims' which were not in any way relevant to the law or the 'offense' they were charged with.

I believe there is an American term for what I am describing above “fruit of the poisonous tree”, this certainly applies in the case of the UK journalist but also for me in the case of the alleged actions the Sollecito’s and others, if they are proven to have broken the law then their actions cannot be justified.

Do you suppose the police are going to come right out and tell you 'we're charging these people because we really screwed the pooch and they're letting people know?' Once, even twice one can imagine the press/family might have gotten out of hand, but in this case there's about twenty people so far being charged with extraneous offenses, all of them on dubious grounds for anything supposedly a free society.

Six months to a year from now this will probably be considered one of those things everyone can see in hindsight and wonder how anyone could have been fooled at the time.

 

[snook1]

http://www.hulu.com/watch/219422/lifetime-movies-beyond-the-headlines-amanda-knox

Thanks, but that's only available to US viewers.

 

[snook1]

He can't watch Hulu in Europe (without a proxy).

Exactly. And I'm not that good with this proxy stuff...!

 

[CoulsdonUK]

CoulsdonUK,

Some of the letters Amanda sent home never got there, but their text ended up in British papers, because reporters had raided the mailboxes. What do you think about that?

Halides1

Doesn't matter to me whether Amanda's letters appeared in UK, US or Italian print media if they were intercepted or stolen from a mailbox then whoever was responsible should be charged, any newspaper knowingly printing such information should be heavily fined and if like in the case of UK journalist tried and sent to prison.