Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

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You are just grasping at straws. Last week you stated no one could even obtain a copy. Now you say they won't certify it.

Just more spin from you...

Exactly. The liars were caught and now they are trying to erect new goal posts two steps back spouting yet another lie. It's sad to see how far ObamaTruthers will stoop to defend their idol. Guess they're still *hoping* for *change*. :D
 
Exactly. The liars were caught and now they are trying to erect new goal posts two steps back spouting yet another lie. It's sad to see how far ObamaTruthers will stoop to defend their idol. Guess they're still *hoping* for *change*. :D

That's pretty funny coming from a guy who keeps repeating the falsehood that Hawaii issues certified "long form" certificates, and uses as evidence the fact that...Hawaii refuses to issue certified "long form" certificates.

No matter how hard you and randman wish it were true, Obama has obtained and released the one and only certified documentation of his birth that Hawaii state law permits him to obtain and release. Just as we (and the state of Hawaii) have maintained all along.

Everything else is simply the two of you trying desperately to find some way to dodge around that simple fact.
 
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At this point, the long game is to get the President to request privately that they just release the long form (which contains no relevant additional information) even though the law says they can't.

LOL! I guess I can add another liar to the list. Guess ALB missed Arus' post quoting Fukino and another official saying the state could give Obama a copy of the long form if Obama requested it. :D
 
LOL! I guess I can add another liar to the list. Guess ALB missed Arus' post quoting Fukino and another official saying the state could give Obama a copy of the long form if Obama requested it. :D

How come LTC Lakin couldn't get a copy of his own daughter's Hawaiian "long form" certificate, BAC? Why couldn't he do what he went to military prison demanding that Obama do?
 
Birthers are just another type of 9/11 Truther- They have an insane theory with zero proof, refuse to believe that they have the burden to back up their claims with evidence.

I think many on the right know full well it's BS- Donald Trump is riding the birther train to get the loony vote from the right.
They are just trying to discredit Obama, so they will spin any lie they can
 
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wait, what?

according to that nobody alive today can be president because nobody alive today was yet born at the time of the Constitution becoming law.

Go, Anarchy!

No, he means CATEGORIES of people. Only white landowning males were citizens at the time of the Constitution. So only white landowning males can be citizens now by that reasoning. And nothing since then, the Bill of Rights, the 14th, 15th, or 19th Amendments are valid in this reasoning.
 
I didn't realize I needed to respond to a regurgitation of a lie I'd already proven was a lie. By all means, I hope visitors to JREF look at the discussion on that page of this thread. :D

Why, so you can claim that all lurkers believe you - like you did in the Foster thread?
 
I didn't realize I needed to respond to a regurgitation of a lie I'd already proven was a lie. By all means, I hope visitors to JREF look at the discussion on that page of this thread. :D

Saying something is a lie doesn't make it. You have to prove it. You tried, you quoted a source that ignored portions of the law, you failed and you fled like a coward. The lurkers you're trying to appeal to will see that.
 
I for one think people like BaC and randman over here are appallingly ignorant and are also BEYOND rude to think they have the right to request this of our President.

LOL!

Says a poster who lied when she claimed Obama "met all Constitutional requirements to be the president AS CERTIFIED BY THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES".

Says a poster who lied when she claimed the State of Hawai'i would have to "violate it's own laws" to give Obama a copy of his long form that has "EXACTLY the same information" as what is on the COLB.

Says a poster who lied when she claimed Arus' post said Obama would have to make a copy of the long form himself.

Says a poster who CLAIMS to be military, but doesn't seem to understand what the phrase "Commander And Chief" means.

Says a poster who hasn't a clue what the real definition of "certified copy" is according to sources other than the imagination of ObamaTruthers. By the way … I notice you're running from my challenge to you on that one, too.

You're H ... I ... D ... I ... N ... G, Sabrina. :D
 
Says a poster (Sabrina) who got it pretty much correct, and you repeat it with hysterics and scream 'liar! lair!' to make it seem like there's something wrong. But there isn't.

I don't think you are fooling anyone. Or do all the lurkers support you again?

Maybe you can tell them you're "not a Birther" like you've done before.
 
Why couldn't LTC Lakin get a copy of his own daughter's "long form" birth certificate, BAC? Why did he go to Leavenworth for demanding something from Obama that he himself couldn't obtain?
 
Why couldn't LTC Lakin get a copy of his own daughter's "long form" birth certificate, BAC? Why did he go to Leavenworth for demanding something from Obama that he himself couldn't obtain?

He's still trying to pretend that the law doesn't allow the Department of Health to determine what's on the CoLB and that it doesn't have to be a photocopy. Cognitive dissonance of this level might cause his head to explode...
 
LOL!

Says a poster who lied when she claimed Obama "met all Constitutional requirements to be the president AS CERTIFIED BY THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES".

Says a poster who lied when she claimed the State of Hawai'i would have to "violate it's own laws" to give Obama a copy of his long form that has "EXACTLY the same information" as what is on the COLB.

Says a poster who lied when she claimed Arus' post said Obama would have to make a copy of the long form himself.

Says a poster who CLAIMS to be military, but doesn't seem to understand what the phrase "Commander And Chief" means.

Says a poster who hasn't a clue what the real definition of "certified copy" is according to sources other than the imagination of ObamaTruthers. By the way … I notice you're running from my challenge to you on that one, too.

You're H ... I ... D ... I ... N ... G, Sabrina. :D

Want proof? I will gladly post my DD-214 (with some personal info redacted of course). I can also post copies of my most recent OER (assuming HRC got off their collective bums and actually put it in my OMPF); otherwise I can post the most recent one in there for when I was serving as the company commander of my unit. I currently hold the rank of Captain in the United States Army Reserves and am serving as the brigade S-2 for my unit since my supervisor got deployed a few months ago. I am a proud service member with 9+ years of service under my belt; I think I know a little more about how the military works than some internet yahoo who's never served a day in his life. Want the proof? Ask me for it. Until then, shut your mouth about things you know nothing about.

The president has absolutely NOTHING to do with the day-to-day running of the military, WHICH INCLUDES issuing deployment orders. If he did, he'd have to work 24/7/365 with absolutely no breaks in order to be able to approve every single action taken by the military on a daily basis.

The only one hiding here is you, BaC. Just admit that you can't stand Obama and you'll do anything to validate that hatred, even if it means you latch onto a rapidly sinking ship just to give yourself some validation. It's sad and pathetic, and quite frankly painful to watch.
 
Here, I won't even wait.

Here's my DD-214, and my most recent OER (with all personal info of myself and other persons, such as my rater and senior rater, redacted).
 

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The type of certificate he has released says that a medical professional registered his birth (had the registration been done by a family member, per the laws of Hawaii at the time of his birth, Obama wouldn't have received a "prima facie" certificate).

First of all, I'd like to see your source for this claim. Because I think you are lying again, ANTPogo. Here's what the 1955 Hawaiian Law that was in effect at the time Obama was supposedly born says regarding registration of births:

Compulsory registration of births. Within the time prescribed by the board, a certificate of every birth shall be filed with the local registrar of the district which the birth occurred, by the physician, midwife, or other legally authorized person in attendance at the birth; or if not so attended, by one of the parents.

That means a parent could have given birth to a baby outside the US, brought the baby to Hawaii, and then claim that she had an unattended birth (no witnesses).

The 1955 law next states

Local registrar to prepare birth certificate.
(a) If neither parent of the newborn child whose birth is unattended as above provided is able to prepare a birth certificate, the local registrar shall secure the necessary information from any person having knowledge of the birth an prepare and file the certificate.

That means a local registrar could prepare a birth certificate for a claimed unattended birth using information from anyone claiming to have knowledge of the birth. A parent could have a baby outside the US, bring the baby into the US, then have anyone supply false information to the local registrar. In fact, anyone could supply the information to the registrar while the birth mom and child were still outside the US.

The 1955 law also allowed for certificates of birth to be filed as much as a year after the birth. So a parent could have a baby outside the US, bring that child into the US within a year of his stated DOB and then file for the birth certificate using the above procedures.

For this reason, the prima facie value of a COLB is limited. A Hawaiian COLB is NOT evidence of a Hawaiian birth for a foreign national born in the year 1961, because under Hawaiian law, it was compulsory for the Department of Health to register a newborn child of a Hawaiian resident, even if no documentation of place and time of birth was actually presented. It took only the *word* of one parent (or not even a parent) claiming the child was born in Hawaii on such and such a date to register the child. That's why seeing the name of the doctor and the hospital on the long form is so important.

As Joseph Farah notes in this article

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=285741

Hawaii had a long history of handing out those "short-form" certifications of live birth to parents and grandparents as registrations of births that actually took place elsewhere – including other countries.

Furthermore, "prima facie" is another phrase whose definition you don't seem to know, ANTPogo. "Prima facie" does not mean evidence that is conclusive or irrefutable. As Wikipedia notes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_facie

Prima facie is often confused with res ipsa loquitur ("the thing speaks for itself"), the common law doctrine that when the facts make it self-evident that negligence or other responsibility lies with a party, it is not necessary to provide extraneous details, since any reasonable person would immediately find the facts of the case. The difference between the two is that prima facie is a term meaning there is enough evidence for there to be a case to answer. Res ipsa loquitur means that because the facts are so obvious, a party need explain no more.

Also, from Wikipedia,

Most legal proceedings require a prima facie case to exist, following which proceedings may then commence to test it, and create a ruling.

And how would one test it in this case? Easy. Ask for and see the long form birth certificate.

Prima Facie means "on the face of it" until proven otherwise. With a long form copy in existance which shows more detail, things can be proven otherwise. In a court trial if one one side offers prima facie evidence and both sides stipulate to it, it is entered into evidence. But if one side objects, it is not and the original has to be produced.

And here are some more legal sources with the same definition of "prima facie":

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/prima_facie

Latin for "at first sight." Prima facie may be used as an adjective meaning "sufficient to establish a fact or raise a presumption unless disproved or rebutted;" e.g., prima facie evidence. It may also be used as an adverb meaning "on first appearance but subject to further evidence or information;" e.g., the agreement is prima facie valid.

A prima facie case is the establishment of a legally required rebuttable presumption. It is generally understood as a flexible evidentiary standard that measures the effect of evidence as meeting, or tending to meet, the proponent's burden of proof on a given issue. In that sense, a prima facie case is a cause of action or defense that is sufficiently established by a party's evidence to justify a verdict in his or her favor, provided such evidence is not rebutted by the other party.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/prima-facie/

Prima facie is a Latin term meaning "at first look," or "on its face," and refers to evidence before trial which is sufficient to prove the case unless there is substantial contradictory evidence shown at trial. … snip … If an applicant submits the evidence necessary to prove a prima facie case, absent a response (or evidence to the contrary), the applicant should prevail.

But we have made a response in this case.

Show us the long form, Obama. :D
 
Here, I won't even wait.

Here's my DD-214, and my most recent OER (with all personal info of myself and other persons, such as my rater and senior rater, redacted).

You're only posting that because they didn't say a single bad thing about you!

"CPT <redacted> is a consummate professional and excellent officer. Promote ahead of peers and place in positions of greater authority and responsibility".

My quest to find dirt on you just took another dive. Dangit :mad:
 
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