Should zoos be made illegal or do they more good than harm?

[rjh01]

So I have seen a TV program with Sir Richard Attenborough (sp?) in which he demonstrated that a bird species will feign injury to draw off predators if the bird/nest is observed by a walking, observant, human; whereas a person walking about in the same habitat without looking at the ground did not trigger a response from the birds.

Did I fall for a, "just-so" story or is there something to this??

Would that be David Attenborough? He is the one that talks about nature. His brother Richard is an actor.

The reason some birds will do this is to distract the predator away from their chicks. The bird is attacked instead. When the predator comes too close the bird will fly away, giving the chicks time to run away.

 

[JoelKatz]

The premise of this post seems to be, at least implicitly, that if something does more harm than good it should be legally prohibited. That strikes me as a somewhat absurd premise. Candy probably does more harm than good, should it be illegal? Skiing might even do more harm than good.

Also, the idea that something should be legal if does more good than harm is also kind of bizarre. Say a town has been terrorized by a serial killer who died of natural causes. People in the town are still afraid though. Suppose I could show that it would do a lot more good than harm to frame an innocent person for the killings and confine them to jail so the citizens of the town could stop being afraid. Does that mean it should be legal to frame someone?

It's a fair question whether zoos do more good than harm, but it has little to nothing to do with what laws should be regarding zoos.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Are you prejudiced against bulky baggage carriers?

 

[Severus Snape]

That would be the third #1 then. St. L. and Deigo would eat Ohio alive.

We were just ranked number one over even the St Lious and San Diego zoo thanks to our new polar bear exhibit.

 

[Emet]

We were just ranked number one over even the St Lious and San Diego zoo thanks to our new polar bear exhibit.

Yes, according to USA Travel Guide.

Link

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

As long as the animals are healthy and well fed, and have the room and recreation they need zoo's and circus' are fine.

 

[Severus Snape]

As long as the animals are healthy and well fed, and have the room and recreation they need zoo's and circus' are fine.

I hate circuses more than I hate Redwing fans.
You wouldn't believe what Ringling Brothers does to their animals.

 

[wasapi]

I hate circuses more than I hate Redwing fans.
You wouldn't believe what Ringling Brothers does to their animals.

I agree. Circuses should be shut down. As far as zoo's go, I would much rather see the exotic pet trade outlawed.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I hate circuses more than I hate Redwing fans.
You wouldn't believe what Ringling Brothers does to their animals.

I feel obliged to chime in here, given that I'm a circus artist in training. There are circuses that use animals and circuses that do not. In fact, there's a whole "circus genre" (to which I belong) called contemporary circus^WP that mixes theater and circus arts, and one of its trademarks is that it virtually never has animals on stage. I appreciate that you wish animals well, but I don't know if you're doing your cause a favour by (probably not intentionally) painting all circuses with the same broad brush. Contemporary performances can deliver just as much, if not far more, quality and excitement as shows using animals, so you'd be doing the animal welfare cause a far bigger favour by promoting animal-free performances instead of condemning circus in general. The more people grow up to enjoy circus performances without animals, the weaker the "you can't have circus without animals" stance will become.

Bit of a derail, I suppose. Perhaps I should start a new thread elaborating on my points here, and giving a bit more info on contemporary circuses in general.

ETA: come to think of it, as fate would have it I wrote a blog post on this subject just yesterday. It's in Norwegian, but at least the Scandinavians on this forum may enjoy it. Or you could use one of those web page translators, I suppose.

 

[Emet]

Your point is well taken, Safe-Keeper. Cirque du Soleil is well known and loved in the US.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Thanks. Just wanted to add another angle to the subject. Making a circus thread now.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

I hate circuses more than I hate Redwing fans.
You wouldn't believe what Ringling Brothers does to their animals.

So, in your opinion, is mistreatment of animals inherent in any circus?

And a follow up question: what counts as mistreatment?

 

[rjh01]

If large animals (big cats, etc) must be kept in captivity they should be given a large area in which to roam for most of the day, every day. A travelling circus would have extreme difficulty in doing this.

Of course I have no issues with circuses that do not use large animals, as long as they look after any small animals they do have.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I know some circus and carnival horses that would like to take issue with claims they are abused. I'm sure some are, but certainly not all

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I know some circus and carnival horses that would like to take issue with claims they are abused.

The horses we practiced equestrian vaulting^WP on certainly would. They live at a horse centre where they have everything they could possibly wish for and are cared for well by a dedicated staff. The circus class would show up on Fridays, prep them for practice, do some equestrian vaulting for 45 minutes, and lead them back to their places when we're done with them and take off their gear.

I imagine that if we actually used them in a circus performance (like, say, drove them to some nearby locale, held our performance, and drove them back), very few activists would have a problem with it, except of course from the "it's unnatural for animals to be made to entertain humans" crowd.

 

[Emet]

The issue I have with the use of animals in circuses comes down to using domesticated animals vs. tamed/trained animals (with perhaps an exception or two) (Of course I don't want to see any animal abused)

Lions, tigers, elephants, etc. are not domesticated--they always retain the potential to act out in violent and unpredictable ways. And when they do, they are often killed.

I recognize that domesticated animals can also go bonkers--but it is much less likely.

 

[Cainkane1]

A well run zoo will keep endangered animals such as gorillas from going completely extinct.

 

[Varanid]

I agree. Circuses should be shut down. As far as zoo's go, I would much rather see the exotic pet trade outlawed.

Baby....bathwater....etc.

There is nothing wrong (my opinion) with keeping exotic pets provided the owners are educated and interested in the true needs of their animals.

No, endangered animals shouldn't be removed from the wild and made into pets, buta huge number of animals sold in the exotic pet trade are in fact captive born and bred.

This applies to a number of reptile, amphibian, and invertebrate species. In fact, a large percentage of the best suited "pets" are "weedy" species which aren't going to be in danger of extinction any time soon.

Further, by people keeping these pets, they increase their education and understanding of the natural world, which helps us to conserve, love, and understand them as I mentioned above.

 

[Varanid]

I appreciate that you wish animals well, but I don't know if you're doing your cause a favour by (probably not intentionally) painting all circuses with the same broad brush.

QFT.
This is applicable to all of the areas being discussed lately, zoos, circuses, exotic pet trade, etc.

 

[AmandaM]

There is nothing wrong (my opinion) with keeping exotic pets provided the owners are educated and interested in the true needs of their animals.

There was a TV show on recently that dealt with animal hoarding, and they did a spin off featuring people who kept, and were attacked by, large exotic animals. Some of the "keepers" were killed; others mauled.

There was a segment on a lady who kept tigers, and I have no doubt in my mind that she was educated about them, and she was very interested in their needs -- the problem was that she couldn't afford to feed them. Eventually hunger got the best of one them and it attacked and ate her.

Especially with people who "collect" animals, they may know the animals need vaccines, but they can't afford them. When I was in college, I'll admit my indoor cat went without shots for 2 years -- not because I was stupid or didn't care about her, but because I decided I didn't have the money to spend on that. I could kick myself over that to this day. In any case, I can remember how easy it was for this otherwise educated and caring owner to make excuses why I couldn't afford shots, but managed to buy pizza.