The Massei/Mignini Conspiracy Theory

[tsig]

For the most part I agree with you. You should know however that Meredith kept her desk lamp on the floor as well (next to the head of her bed). So if she did borrow it and left it on the floor, that would not be unusual.

I consider the lamp as having more importance than the mop(s). The problem I see with the lamp as evidence is that the people standing at the door when it was broken down never mention the lamp or the lamp cord that had to be right in front of them judging by the pictures. If you can find such a statement or quote, it would be helpful. The description of the lamp and its location come later from the medical personnel and investigators including Stefanoni. At this point, I consider the lamp being introduced to the room by LE as a reasonable theory.

Are the defense attorneys using this?

 

[platonov]

Are the defense attorneys using this?

Of course not, what a silly question have you forgotten - It has already been established that the defence lawyers are in on the conspiracy.

As AK appears to be - in on the conspiracy against herself that is.

 

[platonov]

Why are 'we' still talking about this lamp anyway if its of no importance (in isolation its of little importance indeed) - so many words (and pictures ) and what imagination/confabulation over such a trifle.

I am starting to regret having introduced the lamp into the thread.



But wait...

OK,

<snip>

LE wanted some more light to see by so they reached over and grabbed the lamp that was still plugged in, being careful not to go too far into the room as to step in the blood and disturb the scene. They also used it to examine the knife imprint on the bed and then set the lamp down out of the way behind the door at the foot of the bed where it was knocked down by some idiot LE person tripping over the cord and dragging the base under the bed. LOL.

ETA: This also explains why the people breaking down the door made no mention of the lamp at that time. I don't think the cops initially realized it was even Amanda's lamp.

I stand corrected - it wasn't a trifle.

Imagine the scene ....


Q What did you see when the door was broken open.

A We were shocked, there appeared to be 2 lamps in the room.

Q Indeed, any other feature of interest that caught your eye.

A Not really - No wait, now that I recollect there was a body.

Q A body you say - do go on.

 

[Kaosium]

Why are 'we' still talking about this lamp anyway if its of no importance (in isolation its of little importance indeed) - so many words (and pictures ) and what imagination/confabulation over such a trifle.

It's a mystery that hasn't been cleared up, thus people try to come up with plausible scenarios. As long as there's people who will insist it's 'proof' of the 'clean-up' I imagine there's interest in trying to determine what it might be.

I am starting to regret having introduced the lamp into the thread.

Or it could be we're being punished for past indiscretions, and you of all people betrayed us! Just like you think Amanda did on the stand to herself.

Let's talk about that instead. What testimony in particular is indicative to you that Amanda 'conspired' against herself on the stand? The link to the testimony is on page ten, the first before all the Webber/Rice links.

I stand corrected - it wasn't a trifle.

Imagine the scene ....


Q What did you see when the door was broken open.

A We were shocked, there appeared to be 2 lamps in the room.

Q Any other feature of interest that caught your eye.

A Not really - No wait, now that I recollect there was a body.

Q A body you say - do go on.

LOL! Note I was thinking something very similar when reading about the ones so convinced that Amanda and Raffaele were failing to plot together to not open the door, what they were worried about was obviously Meredith, not Amanda's damned lamp.

 

[Draca]

It is in the pictures. The position of the lamp looks like it is there so she can turn it on and off without getting out of bed.

This photo shows the lamp was plugged into the power strip under the bed.



This shows the lamp is backward and partially resting on its own cord.






This photos tells the story to me:
1. The items on the bedside table all shoved over to the right, the lamp jostled onto the floor.
2. A first wound inflicted by the bed with blood on the floor and the wood bed slats.
3. The bloody fingers on the wall where RG or MK raised their bloody hand and wiped it on the wall above the struggle.


]


Ron Hendry's view on how the attack started:
"The mattress had been jammed against the corner wall, leaving a portion of the bed frame and slats exposed at that end. Blood dripping was observed on the exposed slat and bed frame areas. A long bloody hand swipe was on the wall above the bed and nightstand. The desk lamp was on the floor between the bed and nightstand and may have been knocked off during a struggle."

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RonHendry8.html[/url

 

[platonov]

<snip>

Originally Posted by platonov

I am starting to regret having introduced the lamp into the thread.

Or it could be we're being punished for past indiscretions, and you of all people betrayed us! Just like you think Amanda did on the stand to herself.

<snip>

Oops - I stand corrected again

Now that I recollect it wasn't I that introduced this infernal lamp.
It was London John.

My apologies - I had to see a the man about a dog some pigs [wretched business] and lost track.

ps You now seem interested in this lamp again ? Can we straighten this out once and for all

 

[platonov]

Originally Posted by RoseMontague

It is in the pictures. The position of the lamp looks like it is there so she can turn it on and off without getting out of bed.

This photo shows the lamp was plugged into the power strip under the bed.

<snip>

So

If the anomalous lamp in the room wasn't enough to be getting on (and on, and on, and on) with, we are now going to solve the crime by studying photos of MK's own lamp.

Nancy Drew - eat your heart out.

ps Is MK's own lamp part of the conspiracy ?

 

[tsig]

So

If the anomalous lamp in the room wasn't enough to be getting on (and on, and on, and on) with, we are now going to solve the crime by studying photos of MK's own lamp.

Nancy Drew - eat your heart out.

ps Is MK's own lamp part of the conspiracy ?

No, no, you have to listen to the photos and they will tell you a story.

 

[platonov]

No, no, you have to listen to the photos and they will tell you a story.

But hold on.

I have already shown here using arguments from Kevin Lowe, London John, Rose Montague etc that MK was killed by her english friends (by 8.30 at the latest)

So presumably the lamp [MKs] was disturbed in moving the body back to the room from wherever the murder took place ?

How can one tell from a photo ?
I cant but I shall have to doubt Ron Hendry's (and others) expertise if the above scenario wasn't obvious to him at a glance.

 

[RoseMontague]

This photo shows the lamp was plugged into the power strip under the bed.
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_401664da63d04ef930.jpg[/qimg]


This shows the lamp is backward and partially resting on its own cord.
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_401664da63d1ee65fc.jpg[/qimg]





This photos tells the story to me:
1. The items on the bedside table all shoved over to the right, the lamp jostled onto the floor.
2. A first wound inflicted by the bed with blood on the floor and the wood bed slats.
3. The bloody fingers on the wall where RG or MK raised their bloody hand and wiped it on the wall above the struggle.


][qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_401664da6426febde2.jpg[/qimg]


Ron Hendry's view on how the attack started:
"The mattress had been jammed against the corner wall, leaving a portion of the bed frame and slats exposed at that end. Blood dripping was observed on the exposed slat and bed frame areas. A long bloody hand swipe was on the wall above the bed and nightstand. The desk lamp was on the floor between the bed and nightstand and may have been knocked off during a struggle."

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/R...r the closeups and your own theories on this.

 

[RoseMontague]

But hold on.

I have already shown here using arguments from Kevin Lowe, London John, Rose Montague etc that MK was killed by her english friends.

So presumably the lamp [MKs] was disturbed in moving the body back to the room from wherever the murder took place ?

How can one tell from a photo ?
I cant but I shall have to doubt Ron Hendry's expertise if the above scenario was obvious to him at a glance.

I was pointing out the facts of the testimony of her 3 friends on the time they ate. My opinion is that Rudy is the killer, but you know that.

As far as the discussion on the lamp, it is just one of the many things in this case that remain a mystery and for that reason, I find it an interesting exercise to explore the details on the lamp.

 

[Kaosium]

But hold on.

I have already shown here using arguments from Kevin Lowe, London John, Rose Montague etc that MK was killed by her english friends (by 8.30 at the latest)
So presumably the lamp [MKs] was disturbed in moving the body back to the room from wherever the murder took place ?

How can one tell from a photo ?
I cant but I shall have to doubt Ron Hendry's (and others) expertise if the above scenario wasn't obvious to him at a glance.

Something just occurred to me about this. (no, not that she was killed by Sally Purton or whatever her name is) I was wondering just how solid that time she left the English girls was? I know there's that CCTV shot that catches someone (presumably Meredith) entering the property but as I recall the timestamp on that is missing for some reason. Apparently the Seattle PI is no longer hosting the Massei Report, and I'm too lazy to download it at this moment from elsewhere, and I cannot recall for certain with what confidence that particular time has been determined.

Feel free to get in a good sneer at my undying ignorance of the myriad details of the case, but answer the question as well if you know the answer. I was just wondering if it's possible she was in fact killed circa 8:30 or so?

Incidentally, I've not perused PMF lately. Why is the Massei Report no longer on the Seattle PI's website? Did they ask them to take it down? I first tried a few days ago and it wasn't working, I was thinking it was a technical glitch.

 

[RoseMontague]

Something just occurred to me about this. (no, not that she was killed by Sally Purton or whatever her name is) I was wondering just how solid that time she left the English girls was? I know there's that CCTV shot that catches someone (presumably Meredith) entering the property but as I recall the timestamp on that is missing for some reason. Apparently the Seattle PI is no longer hosting the Massei Report, and I'm too lazy to download it at this moment from elsewhere, and I cannot recall for certain with what confidence that particular time has been determined.

Feel free to get in a good sneer at my undying ignorance of the myriad details of the case, but answer the question as well if you know the answer. I was just wondering if it's possible she was in fact killed circa 8:30 or so?

Incidentally, I've not perused PMF lately. Why is the Massei Report no longer on the Seattle PI's website? Did they ask them to take it down? I first tried a few days ago and it wasn't working, I was thinking it was a technical glitch.

IIRC, Sophie testified there was a TV show at 9PM she wanted to see and was certain she (Sophie) made it just in time. They had split up just shortly before 9PM.

 

[platonov]

I (dont appreciate that) was pointing out the facts of the testimony of her 3 friends on the time they ate. My opinion is that Rudy is the killer, but you know that.

As far as the discussion on the lamp, it is just one of the many things in this case that remain a mystery and for that reason, I find it an interesting exercise to explore the details on the lamp.

We have to follow the arguments where they lead, whether its appreciated or not.

Perhaps there are some who mightn't appreciate what they would consider JAQing off over a dead young woman but we rationalists here can only deal with the arguments as presented.

Indeed 'the facts of the testimony of her 3 friends on the time they ate' as you present them imply [as I showed earlier] that your 'facts' aren't the complete facts or else the defence teams are in on the conspiracy.

 

[RoseMontague]

Indeed 'the facts of the testimony of her 3 friends on the time they ate' as you present them imply [as I showed earlier] that your 'facts' aren't the complete facts or else the defence teams are in on the conspiracy.

The 3 experts (whose testimony I sometimes appreciate and have quoted here) testified 2-3 hours to 3-4 hours. A TOD of shortly after 9PM is consistent with that testimony and of a meal that started at 6PM. You can argue percentages with Kevin and LJ but the way I see it, the later TOD claimed by the court is extremely unlikely.

 

[platonov]

Something just occurred to me about this. (no, not that she was killed by Sally Purton or whatever her name is) I was wondering just how solid that time she left the English girls was? I know there's that CCTV shot that catches someone (presumably Meredith) entering the property but as I recall the timestamp on that is missing for some reason. Apparently the Seattle PI is no longer hosting the Massei Report, and I'm too lazy to download it at this moment from elsewhere, and I cannot recall for certain with what confidence that particular time has been determined.

Feel free to get in a good sneer at my undying ignorance of the myriad details of the case, but answer the question as well if you know the answer. I was just wondering if it's possible she was in fact killed circa 8:30 or so?

Incidentally, I've not perused PMF lately. Why is the Massei Report no longer on the Seattle PI's website? Did they ask them to take it down? I first tried a few days ago and it wasn't working, I was thinking it was a technical glitch.

I'm not sure why you are asking me about PMF - last time someone went down that road a bunch of posts got moved to AAH (the mods have enough to do) and the pigs got loose.

But I'd be surprised if the Massei report isn't still available there.

In any case, don't one of the FOA sites - Hendry or Waterbury or someone have a synopsis.
Why not use that - it was tremendous fun last time [ and the previous times - remember the 'patient zero' issue ]

ps Sure its possible, as is quad's 'lovelorn Sasquatch' theory or most of the Foaker theories and about as likely IMO

 

[platonov]

The 3 experts (whose testimony I sometimes appreciate and have quoted here) testified 2-3 hours to 3-4 hours. A TOD of shortly after 9PM is consistent with that testimony and of a meal that started at 6PM. You can argue percentages with Kevin and LJ but the way I see it, the later TOD claimed by the court is extremely unlikely.

I was referring to 'the facts of the testimony of her 3 friends on the time they ate' as you presented them.

 

[RoseMontague]

I was referring to 'the facts of the testimony of her 3 friends on the time they ate' as you presented them.

Her 3 friends testified 6PM, around 6Pm or perhaps earlier, and 5:30-6PM. I quoted that testimony. I have also quoted the three experts that testified 2-3 hours to 3-4 hours from the last meal. How is a TOD of shortly after 9PM not consistent with that testimony?

 

[Draca]

So

If the anomalous lamp in the room wasn't enough to be getting on (and on, and on, and on) with, we are now going to solve the crime by studying photos of MK's own lamp.

Nancy Drew - eat your heart out.

ps Is MK's own lamp part of the conspiracy ?

Rose started it !

I was curious why she thought MK stored her lamp on the floor...

 

[platonov]

Her 3 friends testified 6PM, around 6Pm or perhaps earlier, and 5:30-6PM. I quoted that testimony. I have also quoted the three experts that testified 2-3 hours to 3-4 hours from the last meal. How is a TOD of shortly after 9PM not consistent with that testimony?

Link & Link

While this Cartwheel is long on mispokes as per Dan O (and again ) and others - its short on spokes or else is spinning ever faster.