Merged Cold Fusion Claims

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Well, 10+ MeV neutrons do indeed come from certain kinds of fusion events---but not, in fact, from any of pp, pd, dd, p-Zn, d-Zn, etc., which are the reactions Mosier wants to claim are occurring. But yeah, if you were running d-t fusion, 10+ MeV neutron bursts would be a good sign that fusion was really occurring.
Yep.
Mosier is not claiming that nuclear reactions are occurring from pp,pd,dd,p-Zn,d-Zn, etc.
Actually nobody knows what are the actual reactions that occur.

Many suppose that tritium is formed:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Articl..._cold_fusion_in_Pamela_Mosier-Boss_experiment
 
Only one man believed that Relativity Theory should be possible, earlier its confirmation by experiment
there were 3 men who believed relativity theory to be correct. The rest of the world, ie, millions of people and hundred of thousand of scientists did not believe
:)
I don't believe this is an accurate statement either, particularly since the two pillars of experimental evidence for relativity near that time, the Michelson-Morley and Fizeau experiments, were both performed decades before relativity.

In any case, it doesn't seem all that apt a comparison to make: relativity was a theory explaining pre-existing experimental data that fitted (through re-interpretation) very well with older theoretical framework made by others. Cold fusion has neither theoretical nor experimental evidence going for it.
 
OK, ElMondo, as you are a perfectionist, then let me say it in accurate words:

there were 3 men who believed relativity theory to be correct. The rest of the world, ie, millions of people and hundred of thousand of scientists did not believe
:)

That isn't true. It was Galileo who proposed the theory of relativity and it stood up for hundreds of years. Then there was an issue after Maxwell did his stuff on electro-magnetism and there was a requirement to unify relativity with the maxwell equations. Hence came Special and General relativity.
 
Is here a place to discuss FACTS, obtained in scientific experiments, or is it a place where I have to accept everything claimed by you and other guys?

The triple tracks observed in Mosier-Boss experiment are not something that a fusion researcher "says".
It's interpretation was made by experts in intepreting CR-39 tracks:
Johan Frenje at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, an expert at interpreting CR-39 tracks produced in conventional high-temperature fusion reactions, says the team's interpretation of what produced the tracks is valid.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...=pt-BR&ct=clnk&gl=br&source=www.google.com.br


Have I trust you, or an expert at interpreting CR-39 ?
:eek:

And how did they demonstrate the source of the neutrons, eh?

get all excited and handwavy will you.
 
Supposedly it's from the reaction 12C + n --> alpha alpha alpha n.

The question is: Why focus on this bizarre, rare reaction? Why not measure the neutron flux from ordinary elastic scattering (single tracks)? Why not thermalize the neutrons and measure the captures?

Because they're not really doing serious neutron measurements---the sort where you put together a complete and accurate picture of the neutron flux vs. energy, or time, or distance, etc.. Rather, they're looking for anything that can vaguely pass as an "LENR confirmed" press release. Triple tracks? Triple tracks = neutrons! Yes! That hits the confirmation bias button! We're done measuring, get that press release out!

Pedrone, do you understand this?
 
How do you know they really do it?

How can you be so sure?

Wow, I know how do you know it !!!

It's because you are sure that Quantum Mechanics cannot be wrong. Theferore your conclusion is obvious: all the cold fusion researchers are liars, charlatans, and pseudocientists.
:p

No , he said the material they are using is not a good way to verify the events that they claim to have measured.
 
OK, ElMondo, as you are a perfectionist, then let me say it in accurate words:

there were 3 men who believed relativity theory to be correct. The rest of the world, ie, millions of people and hundred of thousand of scientists did not believe
:)

OMG, I can't believe you did that.

There were more than 3 men; I was only naming those who either came immediately to my mind or whom I found in quick references to websites discussing relativity. And the fact that only a few physicists out of the world's population who were looking into it doesn't automatically mean that the rest of the population outside of that group disbelieved in relativity.

You're setting up the standard false dichotomy (as I said, you're a walking demonstration of logical fallacies), one between a supposed small group of researchers who "believe" in a phenomenon and go on to study it, and the rest of the world at large who supposedly stand in their way. The history of scientific research is not like that at all. Most times, the reason phenomena gets studied is because some people note an occurance/event, make a description of it, then others pick up on that description and carries research forward, and still others build on that.

Read these two links:
... and you will notice that a plethora of scientists and mathematicians are all named, all of whom contribute either by noting some element of one of the details of relativity, or who collaborate with Einstein on certain details, or who assist with confirmation. Not only is it more than 3 men, it also shows that there was no resistence to the notion outside of standard scientific "lets-see-the-evidence" skepticism. Which evaporates as soon as more results and work is done.

If you want to come up with an example of a scientist who proposes a hypothesis and meets organized opposition, you should've invoked Wegener and Continental Drift. And even then, it wasn't a case of a heroic scientist struggling against the oppresion of the old guard geologists, it was a case of standard scientific skepticism saying "prove it to me". When arguments accumulated - notably but not limited to Jack Oliver, who contributed seismic evidence to advance the theory, and Arthur Holmes, who described thermal convection deep below the surface - and evidence was discovered that supported the notion, the mainstream scientific community completely accepted the notion because the hypothesis had supporting evidence and could make testable predictions. And as the results of tests of those predictions rolled in, the hypothesis gradually became more and more accepted as the proper theory. But the reason that it became accepted was specifically because the supporting evidence rolled in.

Contrast that to the claims you're championing. You're citing arguments that not only have more than one explanation, but have more than one explanation that is more likely than what you're championing. I point you at the past posts where you hang onto the triple-alpha tracks as significant, while totally ignoring background noise. And I'll let Ben M. and others straighten you out on that.

But the overall point I'm making is this: You cannot go around creating myths and pretending that they help your cause. You betray a severe ignorance of scientific history when you assemble arguments the way you do. Relativity was worked on my many people, individual aspects of it were noted long before Einstein put it together, and the work that was done establishing it as the correct theory was never presented in a way that reeked of quackery. The history of how relativity was developed couldn't be any farther from the way that cold fusion is being presented. And you birth a false myth when you try to pretend it is.
 
bruto, your argument equals the following:

1- Prof Bolotov does not need to worry about to improve his experiments, because he knows that other researchers will do it.

2- And other cold fusion researchers also do not need to worry about to improve their experiments, because they know that other researchers will do it.

3- Therefore everybody will be doing nothing, because each cold fusion researcher will be expecting that the other researchers will do it (the work which he is not doing), and everybody do nothing.

4- So, nobody needs to do anything. The palladium will become no expensive in the future... by itself.
:D

Not quite. My argument is that if Bolotov has the exclusive knowledge of what amounts to a money machine, he should be able to bootstrap it without asking for a huge investment. He'd be a fool to sell his license. If his knowledge is not exclusive, and if others can be expected to get the same results without his input, then his license is worthless, and only a fool would pay for it.
 
Everything you said does not matter.

When a scientist submits a paper regarding an experiment, what does matter is:

1- The results obtained in the experiment

2- Can the experiment be replicable ?

Nope. Your paper does not typically publish raw data: "a Fisher Scientific thermometer model #3346532 had the following readings, in C: 30, 30, 32, 32, 36, 36, 32, at 5-minute intervals. We scanned a CR-39 neutron detector; complete video of the scans is attached." Rather, it publishes an interpretation of the data: "The device generated 10kW of heat. Triple-alpha tracks were observed, and are suggestive of fusion."

Those interpretations may be wrong. You don't have to repeat the experiment to determine this.

The reviewer does ask "is it correct to report 10kW, given your data? And please calculate a systematic error." "What else did you see in the CR-39 scan?" "What did your unexposed CR-39 sample look like?"

Peer review is not designed to detect outright fraud, of course.
 
In a long human lifetime (1869-1969), we went from horse-and-buggy technology to walking on the moon. Just sayin'.

Yes. My post was in reply to Gawdzilla comparing the beginning of LTA flight to the beginning of HTA flight. They're two unrelated technologies.
The Wright brothers had to build a wind tunnel because the published aerodynamic data at the time was crap. This was because the people before them were more interested in supporting their pet theories than taking good data.
Just forty years after the Wright's demonstration flights, we could fly faster than sound.
 
Originally Posted by pedrone View Post
Ockham argument does not mean that nothing is missing in known physical principles invoked.
Why the nucleos of Earth is so active after billion years of existence ?


Radioactive decay. Well understood.

Then I suppose the radiactivity was already measured by those researchers who penetrate into the mouth of the volcanos in activity.

Do the researchers get cancer ?

And about the citizens of cities near to volcanos in activity ? When the lava flows from the volcano, are the citizens shot by radioactivity.
Is there a great incidence of cancer among the citizens ?
 
Pedrone, the triple track is caused by neutrons, any neutrons, background as well.
No, you're wrong.
If triple track should be produced by any neutrons, it would not be tipically of nuclear reactions, and the nuclear physicists could not detect a nuclear reaction taking in consideration the triple track.
 
I've merged the various cold-fusion threads into this one. Please use this thread for all cold-fusion discussion. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.
Posted By: jhunter1163

I dont understand wy.
This cause a big confusion, because Rossi-Focardi, Mosier-Boss, and Bolotov experiments are three different technologies, and it should be very useful to the comprehension of the discussion to consider them separatelly.

Putting them into one unique topic favors a big mess
 
Nope. Your paper does not typically publish raw data: "a Fisher Scientific thermometer model #3346532 had the following readings, in C: 30, 30, 32, 32, 36, 36, 32, at 5-minute intervals. We scanned a CR-39 neutron detector; complete video of the scans is attached." Rather, it publishes an interpretation of the data: "The device generated 10kW of heat. Triple-alpha tracks were observed, and are suggestive of fusion."
Ben M, are you refering to the reports spread by the media in the internet, or are you refering to the paper published by Mosier-Boss?

Here is a list of the papers:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/Collections/USNavy.htm

What, among the several papers, suppports your claim ?
 
Originally Posted by pedrone View Post
Ockham argument does not mean that nothing is missing in known physical principles invoked.
Why the nucleos of Earth is so active after billion years of existence ?




Then I suppose the radiactivity was already measured by those researchers who penetrate into the mouth of the volcanos in activity.

Do the researchers get cancer ?

And about the citizens of cities near to volcanos in activity ? When the lava flows from the volcano, are the citizens shot by radioactivity.
Is there a great incidence of cancer among the citizens ?


You've been around long enough to post links, and to know how to quote posts properly.
 
Originally Posted by pedrone View Post
Ockham argument does not mean that nothing is missing in known physical principles invoked.
Why the nucleos of Earth is so active after billion years of existence ?




Then I suppose the radiactivity was already measured by those researchers who penetrate into the mouth of the volcanos in activity.

Do the researchers get cancer ?

And about the citizens of cities near to volcanos in activity ? When the lava flows from the volcano, are the citizens shot by radioactivity.
Is there a great incidence of cancer among the citizens ?

What are you even claiming/implying?
 
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