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Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Very good point, Supernaut.
I pointed out (think it was maybe over on Injustice forum) that she should produce them and was urged to wait patiently until the next hearing (last Saturday).
But I haven't heard any mention of her calling a disco owner / bus driver to testify. Does anyone know whether this happened? I also wondered how many out of town discos there actually were operating in November 2007.
The prosecution are not actually very good at providing proof of the claims they make in court (or, more commonly, to the press)! ;)
The prosecution may or may not have tried to find one, but I doubt it - they know perfectly well they'd be on a hiding-to-nothing.

It doesn't matter how many times I hear about the behaviour of the "legal professionals" surrounding this case, I'm still left open-mouthed on a regular basis.

That Comodi can get away with prevarication like this in open court, with no one else apparently willing to expose it for being just that, no request for her to meet the 'burden of proof' that I would take for granted in a criminal court (or any other kind) ... it just does my head in.

>> ETA - sorry if the Brit colloquialism was incomprehensible - "does one's head in" means 'exasperates', pretty much.
 
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play list

misteratunta,

If you had just committed a murder and were not quite done cleaning up, would you make a music playlist at 5:30 in the morning? If someone gets up, putters around on the computer, goes back to sleep, and gets up again at 10, I would say that they got up at 10.
 
http://seattlest.com/2011/03/29/seattle_u_forum_to_make_case_for_am.php

A big forum at Seattle U on April 4th with all of the famous authors who've presented cases for innocence.

In the interest of maintaining the factual evidence based ideals many here vocally champion, (especially advantageous when ridiculing/responding to their opponents), and in the interest of avoiding the even more prevalent *over* statements to promote innocence that pop up here very frequently, please consider:

1) Exactly two (2) of the four panelists are 'authors' of books.

2) Since I was previously severely taken to task here over meaning of 'several', may I respectfully suggest your use of 'all' is therefore an inaccurate and misleading exaggeration.
Many more than two have presented cases for innocence

3) Additionally, except in your (now somewhat questionable) opinion...neither would qualify for the adjective 'famous' that you generously but erroneously bestow on them.
(despite their own endless exaggerated aggressive self aggrandizing endeavors)

3) How 'big' the Forum becomes is also very subjective since many FOAKer Groupies considered the latest Fundraiser, Bowling for Dollars 'Big' and others described it as a few diehards taking advantage of free bowling shoe rental as long as they did not attempt to 'donate' with a *traceable* check.

4) Most 'Forums', particularly at Jesuit Institutes of higher learning, generate interest and truly educate by having with Panelists from both sides of subjects discussed, and not by having little more than a Hometown Cheer leading Pep Rally Love-in for Panelists with tightly monitored PR Firm sanctioned and scripted Questioners.
 
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misterstunta. Many thanks for posting the impressive list that outlines why many people believe the pair are guilty.

Your rebuttal ..... not so impressive!
 
misteratunta,

If you had just committed a murder and were not quite done cleaning up, would you make a music playlist at 5:30 in the morning? If someone gets up, putters around on the computer, goes back to sleep, and gets up again at 10, I would say that they got up at 10.

Is this what Solecitto says that he did, or is it just your version?
 
six ways from Sunday

It may be no more complicated than Knox and/or Sollecito believing they had throroughly cleaned the knife, so why not keep it? As the points raised on appeal by the defense regarding the knife indicate, they may in fact have cleaned it enough.

Fuji,

If I were cleaning a knife that had been a murder weapon, I would clean it six ways from Sunday, with a variety of cleaning agents and prolonged soaking. How can one clean the blade extremely thoroughly yet still leave one's own DNA on the handle?
 
Hey everyone,

I've been reading these forums for some time, but have only been posting on the Eliza Vargas forum on facebook, reason being I get more of a kick out of arguing with the guilters than discussing with those of us who support Knox. One idiot keeps posting this list over and over again and asking me to address the "points". I really don't know why I bother, I'm not sure my blood pressure can handle much more of this illogical idiocy...

This looks too sophisticated to be Harry Rag, this looks more like Some Alibi--or someone who reads him closely.


* the DNA of Raffaele Sollecito on Meredith’s bra-clasp in her locked bedroom;

Which wasn't found until 46 days after the discovery of the murder. Well, in actuality that's not strictly true, it was seen on camera when they initially swept the place down, but then apparently not processed into evidence for some unexplainable reason. It was then 'rediscovered' having moved in the interim, the day after the police were humiliated on television having been caught making a mindless confirmation bias error. They then drove out to the crime scene and produced this embarrassing display for all the world to (eventually) see.

Now they tell us they cannot find Raffaele's DNA on the bra clasp, it was stored incorrectly and deteriorated. That's probably all for the bra clasp, it not ever being much in the way of 'evidence' of murder anyway, considering as they tore that place apart trying to find evidence of Raffaele and Amanda there, and this one item is all they found, thus suggesting of all the ways Raffaele's DNA could have gotten on the bra clasp, the one least likely is that it was in the commission of a violent death-struggle with Meredith.


* the almost-entire naked footprint of Raffaele on a bathmat that in *no way* fits that of the other male in this case – Rudy Guede;

Take a look at them side to side and compare, note also the 'expert' wasn't given Rudy's foot as a probable match. Also that the footprint is merely 'compatible' with Raffaele's, which only means it's possible that it is his. It's also 'possible' it's yours or mine, probably more so given the unique characteristics of Raffaele's big toe.

* the fact that Raffaele’s own father blew their alibi that they were together in Raffaele’s flat at the time of the killing with indisputable telephone records;

I've no idea what he's talking about here, other than Raffaele gave the police a confused answer about when he received the message from his father the night of the murder. This probably has something to do with the fact he was stoned on hash the night he was interrogated by police.

It could also be that Raffaele turned off his phone that night as he had a girl in his bed and didn't want his 'indiscretions' to be interrupted...

* the DNA of Meredith Kercher on the knife in Raffaele’s flat which Raffaele himself sought to explain as having been from accidentally “pricking” Meredith’s hand in his written diary despite the fact Meredith had never been to his flat (confirmed by Amanda Knox);

Raffaele was obviously trying to figure out how it was even possible Meredith's DNA could have gotten on that knife, and being as he knew it wasn't because he was wielding the time of the murder, and at this point had decided Amanda hadn't snuck out and done it, it appears he must have convinced himself if was the result of an innocent transfer such as he suggests. While I think his version unlikely, it is certainly possible a secondary transfer was responsible for that handful of picograms on the knife, I think it more likely if it wasn't contamination that Amanda might have wiped it on her sleeve before putting it away, her living with Meredith meaning some DNA of hers might have adhered to her clothing.

At any rate, he's writing to himself, it's hardly like he was trying to deceive anyone else with this story, it's not like he told it to the police or courts.

* the correlation of where Meredith’s phones were found to the location of Raffaele Sollecito and Rudy Guedes’s flats;

Right on the way to Rudy Guede's, who by coincidence lived in the same direction as Raffaele. So what?

* the computer records which show that no-one was at Raffaele’s computer during the time of the murder despite him claiming he was using that computer;

Only after they'd been in the hands of ILE which couldn't 'recover' that data and managed to destroy the data on the three other computers. Note that Raffaele's defense announced in November that it had recovered the data from the screensaver file and could show the computer in continuous use all night and the screensaver only operated at the maximum of six minutes at a time.

* Amanda’s DNA mixed with Meredith Kercher’s in five different places just feet from Meredith’s body;

In other rooms outside that 'locked door' incidentally, in the bathroom and in Filomena's room. Two things we all should know was that Amanda's DNA would be found in her bathroom, and that Meredith's DNA and Amanda's would mix somewhere in the cottage. Unable to find any trace of Amanda whatsoever in the murder room is simply underlined by the fact they try to pretend these expected occurrences are in some way suspicious when they were basically impossible to avoid.

* the utterly inexplicable computer records the morning after the murder starting at 5.32 am and including multiple file creations and interactions thereafter all during a time that Raffaele and Amanda insist they were asleep until 10.30am;

Amanda said on the stand she slept in. It is certainly possible Raffaele got up and went to the bathroom, fiddled with the computer and his phone, and then went back to bed. Amanda wouldn't know as she was sleeping, and might not remember even if she wasn't because it's an irrelevancy.

* the separate witnesses who testified on oath that Amanda and Raffaele were at the square 40 metres from the girls’ cottage on the evening of the murder and the fact that Amanda was seen at a convenience store at 7.45am the next morning, again while she said she was in bed;

I am aware of only Curatolo and the guy who said Curatolo was there, but said nothing about seeing Raffaele and Amanda. I'd say the serially testifying (three murder trials in about six years) homeless drug-using and peddling Toto with his impossible imaginings about the night he supposedly 'saw' Raffaele and Amanda has been discredited entirely with his recent testimony.

* the accusation of a completely innocent man by Amanda Knox;

Amanda didn't accuse anyone, you can see in the note she doesn't think the 'flashes' of imagination she had were real. The cops arresting anyone on the basis of such an absurd 'confession' should be extremely suspect, which probably explains why they tried to pretend that was the only interview with Amanda they didn't tape. The tape wouldn't bear out an accusation, as the statements, the note, and Amanda's testimony on the night in question all suggest.

* the fact that when Amanda Knox rang Meredith’s mobile telephones, ostensibly to check on the “missing” Meredith, she did so for just three seconds - registering the call but making no effort to allow the phone to be answered in the real world

Which is what people do when the phone goes straight to voicemail.

* the knife-fetish of Raffaele Sollecito and his formal disciplinary punishment for watching animal porn at his university – so far from the wholesome image portrayed;

I'm certain that was embarrassing for Raffaele, though I wonder how many other teen-aged boys these days would get in trouble if their school looked too closely at what files were on their computers...

* the fact that claimed multi-year kick-boxer Raffaele apparently couldn’t break down a flimsy door to Meredith’s room when he and Amanda were at the flat the morning after the murder but the first people in the flat with the police who weren’t martial artists could;

I thought he was supposedly Harry Potter, now he's Jean-Claude Van Damme? I guess he didn't kick the door hard enough, perhaps he was afraid of causing more damage than necessary and wasn't entirely sure he should do it anyway. If it is 'suspicious' that he failed, why did he even attempt it? It's not like the failed attempt had any effect on the eventual decision to take it down.

* the extensive hard drug use of Sollecito as told on by Amanda Knox;

If that's coming from what he told Amanda it sounded more like experimentation in his past, and as they were both drug-tested when arrested whatever he might have done then was not relevant to the murder as nothing showed up.

* the fact that Amanda knew details of the body and the wounds despite not being in line of sight of the body when it was discovered;

She knew as much as one might expect for someone being at the scene of the discovery of a body. It sounds like she picked up some details and some untrue information as well.

* the lies of Knox on the witness stand in July 2009 about how their drug intake that night (“one joint”) is totally contradicted by Sollecito’s own contemporaneous diary;

Amanda said she smoked a joint on the stand, Raffaele says: "I understand that if we all ended up in jail it is also due to [colpa] my casual attitude [leggerezza] in regard to the facts of that evening and also [due to the fact that] we smoked (Amanda and I) several joints."

It could very well be that two stoned college students are unclear on how much they smoked what would be a week or eighteen months ago, depending on which statement you're referring to. It's also possible that the casual smoker Amanda had only one joint or the equivalent, and that Raffaele himself smoked several joints.

* the fact that after a late evening’s questioning, Knox wrote a 2,900 word email home which painstakingly details what she said happened that evening and the morning after that looks *highly* like someone committing to memory, at 3.30 in the morning, an extensive alibi;

Or it might be someone who is beginning to doubt her memory because it's being constantly questioned by police who are getting increasingly aggressive as she also notes.

* the fact that both Amanda and Raffaele both said they would give up smoking dope for life in their prison diaries despite having apparently nothing to regret;

I'd say being thrown in prison and being told they'd be charged with murder is something to 'regret.'

* the fact that when Rudy Guede was arrested, Raffaele Sollecito didn’t celebrate the “true” perpetrator being arrested (which surely would have seen him released) but worried in his diary that a man whom he said he didn’t know would “make up strange things” about him despite him just being one person in a city of over 160,000 people;

Imagine that! Raffaele doesn't have full confidence in the integrity of a rapist-murderer with a noose wrapped halfway around his neck! I wonder if Raffaele was afraid that Rudy might lie and try to pin it on the two the police had already caught?

* the fact that both an occupant of the cottage and the police instantly recognised the cottage had not been burgled but had been the subject of a staged break-in where glass was *on top* of apparently disturbed clothes;

They didn't 'instantly recognize' it had been 'staged' or they wouldn't have let the other inhabitants of the cottage roam freely the rest of the week, they also would have shown a lot more interest in Filomena and Laura. The glass on top of the clothes, so necessary to your point and reiterated ad nauseum in Massei, was not even photographed as such being as the scene had been 'disturbed' by then.

Which of course is just as good an explanation as for how it ever got there in the first place, either through Filomena grabbing her computer and looking around to see if anything was stolen, or Rudy himself kicking glass around while rummaging about in the room. It's also possible Filomena left some clothes on her floor and didn't want to admit to it.

* that Knox and Sollecito both suggested each other might have committed the crime and Sollecito TO THIS DATE does not agree Knox stayed in his flat all the night in question;

After Raffaele and Amanda were arrested, each knowing they hadn't done it, did indeed wonder if the other had, but not for very long, or very confidently. Raffaele went before the judge and reiterated that Amanda was with him that evening.

* the bizarre behaviour of both of them for days after the crime;

Only 'bizarre' through the lens of a desperate and despicable tabloid smear campaign looking for any reason to condemn them.

* the fact that cellphone records show Knox did not stay in Sollecito’s flat but had left the flat at a time which is completely coincidental with Guede’s corroborated presence near the girl’s flat earlier in the evening;

This is nonsense. Amanda's phone was turned off, and there's no 'corroborated presence' of Rudy Guede near the girl's flat earlier that evening.

* the fact that Amanda Knox’s table lamp was found in the locked room of Meredith Kercher in a position that suggested it had been used to examine for fine details of the murder scene in a clean up;

Perhaps by the police themselves!
Obviously the murder scene wasn't cleaned up, outside Rudy's fruitless sopping up with the towels, otherwise it would have been. No 'cleaned up' murder scene would have those footprints everywhere. As for the lamp, it could have been brought inside by police to help them sweep down the area, it could have been borrowed by Meredith, perhaps even unknowing or forgotten by Amanda. The one thing we know it wasn't used for was to aid in a clean-up--as nothing was cleaned up and there's no trace anything was.

* the unbelievable series of changing stories made up by the defendants after their versions became challenged; Knox’s inexplicable reaction to being shown the knife drawer at the girl’s cottage where she ended up physically shaking and hitting her head.

They only 'changed' their story once, and it was 'changed' for them, by angry and suspicious policemen lying to them and threatening them. As for the girl barely out of her teens breaking down seeing a bunch of knives after her roommate has just been knifed to death, well, that's hardly unusual nor should be considered unexpected.
 
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It won't let me link to it, but if you follow the above with the facebook url at the start you should see it!

There are lots of guilters on there, and while you may see several pro Amanda posters, I am afraid they are nearly all me posting under different pseudonyms. If anyone fancies wading in to help me out, it would be much appreciated!

When you get to eleven posts and can post links then post a link to the discussion in question as copying and pasting that partial url with the facebook.com prefix is just bringing up Facebook for me. I went through it the normal way for that discussion board and I might have found it, but that required me to repeatedly go 'arrow' my way through some 4k messages.
 
Kaosium. You may be right regarding one or two, maybe even a few of these points, but every one of them! I think not

When you explain away stuff with comments such as

"This probably has something to do with the fact he was stoned on hash the night he was interrogated by police."

or

"Raffaele was obviously trying to figure out how it was even......"

You lose me.

As for "Amanda didn't accuse anyone, you can see in the note she doesn't think the 'flashes' of imagination she had were real."

Didn't she actually say that she was afraid of Patrick? Why on earth would she say this?

"Only 'bizarre' through the lens of a desperate and despicable tabloid smear campaign looking for any reason to condemn them."

Er... no! Bizarre in any right-thinking person's opinion, surely.

"as for the lamp, it could have been brought inside by police to help them sweep down the area, "

Aw! Come on!

The gang who post here and constantly refer to those not accepting this hogwash as "idiots" are way off beam, in my opinion. They should look at what they post, sometimes and see how desperate they come across.
 
Not my points, points of an idiot on the Elizabeth Vargas boards on facebook. I've already had a stab at a retort, but if someone could help me elaborate before I post that would be great!

* the DNA of Raffaele Sollecito on Meredith’s bra-clasp in her locked bedroom - and what of the DNA of the unidentified other people found on it? Are they therefore suspects also?

* the almost-entire naked footprint of Raffaele on a bathmat that in *no way* fits that of the other male in this case – Rudy Guede - it doesn't fit Raffael's foot any more than it fit's Rudy's

* the fact that Raffaele’s own father blew their alibi that they were together in Raffaele’s flat at the time of the killing with indisputable telephone records - care to cite a source for this and explain what it means?

* the DNA of Meredith Kercher on the knife in Raffaele’s flat which Raffaele himself sought to explain as having been from accidentally “pricking” Meredith’s hand in his written diary despite the fact Meredith had never been to his flat (confirmed by Amanda Knox); - watch this space on that one. If this were accurate and indisputable then nobody would be supporting Knox

* the correlation of where Meredith’s phones were found to the location of Raffaele Sollecito and Rudy Guedes’s flats; - the route where they were found was between Meredith's flat and Rudy's flat. That Raffaele's flat was also nearby is irrelevant and this point is a non-point

* the computer records which show that no-one was at Raffaele’s computer during the time of the murder despite him claiming he was using that computer - that's funny, I thought the hard disk was fried before any such evidence could be finally concluded


* Amanda’s DNA mixed with Meredith Kercher’s in five different places just feet from Meredith’s body - she lived in the same flat, and this line is deliberately misleading - it was feet away from Meredith's body THROUGH A DOOR AND A WALL

* the utterly inexplicable computer records the morning after the murder starting at 5.32 am and including multiple file creations and interactions thereafter all during a time that Raffaele and Amanda insist they were asleep until 10.30am - Amanda was at her own flat at 10:30am so I find it strange that she would claim to have been asleep. Did she sleepwalk? Seriously, who is writing this stuff?


* the separate witnesses who testified on oath that Amanda and Raffaele were at the square 40 metres from the girls’ cottage on the evening of the murder and the fact that Amanda was seen at a convenience store at 7.45am the next morning, again while she said she was in bed; - Who we talking about here, Curatolo the drug using homeless guy who couldn't remember what night it was and doesn't know why he is in prison? Or the guy who said he met her uncle and that she had a gap in her teeth? The guy they threw the olives at? Did someone just include this section as filler to pad this nonsense out?


* the accusation of a completely innocent man by Amanda Knox - did the accusation of his totally innocent family members make Gerry Conlon guilty?

* the fact that when Amanda Knox rang Meredith’s mobile telephones, ostensibly to check on the “missing” Meredith, she did so for just three seconds - registering the call but making no effort to allow the phone to be answered in the real world - this is a lie, a verifiable lie

* the knife-fetish of Raffaele Sollecito and his formal disciplinary punishment for watching animal porn at his university – so far from the wholesome image portrayed; - another out and out lie

* the fact that claimed multi-year kick-boxer Raffaele apparently couldn’t break down a flimsy door to Meredith’s room when he and Amanda were at the flat the morning after the murder but the first people in the flat with the police who weren’t martial artists could; - Kick boxer? Multi year? And this is known because he wrote Favourite Sport: Kickboxing on his WAYNE profile? Where is the evidence he ever took one single class, let alone was a "multi year kickboxer"? And since when did kickboxing make anyone an expert in kicking down doors? Try to use a kickboxing kick on a door and you'll get a broken foot

* the extensive hard drug use of Sollecito as told on by Amanda Knox; As told on by Amanda Knox? Hard drug use? Lie. Cite please. You can't just write the stuff without backing it up and then walk away thinking nobody will notice. There is no evidence whatsoever that Raffaele was abusing hard drugs, and if he was it is very far from evidence that he is a murderer. Hey, some of you guys are even saying Curatolo is still a reliable witness and he was whacked out on H. How come he never murdered anyone from that park bench, if your logic is so flawless?

* the fact that Amanda knew details of the body and the wounds despite not being in line of sight of the body when it was discovered - she was told where Meredith was and that her throat had been slit in a car on the way to the police station, this is a matter of public fact

* the lies of Knox on the witness stand in July 2009 about how their drug intake that night (“one joint”) is totally contradicted by Sollecito’s own contemporaneous diary; - straws, clutching at. Who cares how many spliffs she smoked? What good would it do her to lie about it?

* the fact that after a late evening’s questioning, Knox wrote a 2,900 word email home which painstakingly details what she said happened that evening and the morning after that looks *highly* like someone committing to memory, at 3.30 in the morning, an extensive alibi; - only to someone who wants it to look HIGHLY like someone committing to a memory an alibi. To anyone else it looks like someone writing a detailed message home.

* the fact that both Amanda and Raffaele both said they would give up smoking dope for life in their prison diaries despite having apparently nothing to regret - because idiots who know nothing whatsoever about drugs cite their dope smoking as a black mark against them and it made them more inclined to think they were murderers. Not hard to see why they might regret that

* the fact that when Rudy Guede was arrested, Raffaele Sollecito didn’t celebrate the “true” perpetrator being arrested (which surely would have seen him released) but worried in his diary that a man whom he said he didn’t know would “make up strange things” about him despite him just being one person in a city of over 160,000 people; - because he was the one who was all over the papers as being the murderer, out of 160000 other people


* the fact that both an occupant of the cottage and the police instantly recognised the cottage had not been burgled but had been the subject of a staged break-in where glass was *on top* of apparently disturbed clothes - the glass on top of clothes was contradicted in court upon closer inspection of photographs of the crime scene, and what makes the police experts on stage break ins, you reckon they saw a lot of staged break ins around that way? Would you take the word of someone who had so few qualifications that they decided to be a cop over the word of a ballistics expert?

* that Knox and Sollecito both suggested each other might have committed the crime and Sollecito TO THIS DATE does not agree Knox stayed in his flat all the night in question; lie, he accepted it in court

* the bizarre behaviour of both of them for days after the crime; - sigh...

* the fact that cellphone records show Knox did not stay in Sollecito’s flat but had left the flat at a time which is completely coincidental with Guede’s corroborated presence near the girl’s flat earlier in the evening; LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE! How can anyone be asked to explain a completely fabricated nonsense?

* the fact that Amanda Knox’s table lamp was found in the locked room of Meredith Kercher in a position that suggested it had been used to examine for fine details of the murder scene in a clean up - oh my God...is it 2009 again?

* the unbelievable series of changing stories made up by the defendants after their versions became challenged; Knox’s inexplicable reaction to being shown the knife drawer at the girl’s cottage where she ended up physically shaking and hitting her head - oh sorry, you got me. She must have done it.

I just read this EXACT list somewhere else. I will have to try and find it. I know because there is a phrase in there that is worded differently than I have ever heard it. It made me hesitate the first time I read it and I did the same just now. I think this is copied from somewhere.
 
Kaosium. You may be right regarding one or two, maybe even a few of these points, but every one of them! I think not

When you explain away stuff with comments such as

"This probably has something to do with the fact he was stoned on hash the night he was interrogated by police."

or

"Raffaele was obviously trying to figure out how it was even......"

Allow me to elaborate then. The first I wrote after saying he'd given the police a confused answer on when he received the message from his dad. I then speculate that might have been because he was stoned on hash. I don't think that an impossible leap of logic, certainly not Masseian in scope leastways. At any rate the assertion itself is unclear, I'm just guessing to what it could possibly be referring to, as there's no 'indisputable phone evidence' Raffaele wasn't at his flat. Someone would have noticed that and told Massei!

As for the latter, note the context in which the statement occurs.

I am convinced that she could not have killed Meredith and then come back home. The fact that there is Meredithʹs DNA on the kitchen knife is because on one occasion, while we were cooking together, I, while moving around at home [and] handling the knife, pricked her hand, and I apologized at once but she was not hurt [lei non si era fatta niente]. So the only real explanation for that kitchen knife is this one.

If Raffaele is innocent, obviously he's going to be wondering just how that DNA got on that knife, like you contamination isn't his first guess. He's been kinda wondering since he was arrested if Amanda had anything to do with it, and he's realized recently she couldn't have, thus there had to be another explanation for the DNA, and he comes up with this. It's told not to a court, or to police, or to anyone other than himself, and it's not to excuse his own self but to mollify him that Amanda didn't do it. That's what it looks like to me at any rate.

You lose me.

Would it be a good thing if I 'won' you, Colonel? :p

As for "Amanda didn't accuse anyone, you can see in the note she doesn't think the 'flashes' of imagination she had were real."

Didn't she actually say that she was afraid of Patrick? Why on earth would she say this?

That's a very good question Colonel. Why would she, especially being as she'd met Patrick recently and was unperturbed? What changed her mind in the interim, was it perhaps the overnight interrogation session with a dozen cops? Maybe they convinced her for a little while that Patrick was a murderer, something she didn't seem to believe earlier in the day?

"Only 'bizarre' through the lens of a desperate and despicable tabloid smear campaign looking for any reason to condemn them."

Er... no! Bizarre in any right-thinking person's opinion, surely.

Which of the true ones did you find so bizarre?

"as for the lamp, it could have been brought inside by police to help them sweep down the area, "

Aw! Come on!

Apologies if it's not polished, just revising and extending my usual remarks of 'who cares about the lamp!' :p
 
Yup, it was grabbed off TJFMK apparently, originally posted by someone called SomeAlibi

I knew it. This list screams SomeAlibi!
Watch out, he's after you, most probably he's trying to find your real name and he'll make your internet life miserable.

Is Nick Slick from Facebook the same guy as SomeAlibi?
 
colonelhall,

Which part is in dispute?

Huh!

You said "If someone gets up, putters around on the computer, goes back to sleep, and gets up again at 10, I would say that they got up at 10."

I said "Is this what Solecitto says that he did, or is it just your version?"

I may have missed something, but I don't remember Solecitto saying that this is what he did. That is why I asked.
 
I too don't think Raffaele said anything about time of getting up. The "around 10" timing comes from Amanda's account IIRC. I don't think you can infer anything from it. Clinging to such perceived "gotchas" only indicates weakness of the prosecution's case.
 
misterstunta. Many thanks for posting the impressive list that outlines why many people believe the pair are guilty.

Your rebuttal ..... not so impressive!

I think it was very sensible. It would be nice to elaborate, colonelhall. Otherwise such remarks just come up as rude.
 
I think it was very sensible. It would be nice to elaborate, colonelhall. Otherwise such remarks just come up as rude.

I am sorry to see that you could find my post rude, particularly as I try to avoid the kind of arrogant insulting language that is rife on this forum.

If you had read my post, you would have found that I did elaborate. I only picked a few statements upon which to comment. I could have gone on, but really there is not much point. The Knox supporters on this site will believe that which they want to believe. I merely try to make the point that, to me, they seem somewhat deluded.

I am sorry if you should find this offensive, but I can think of no other reason why they should believe this nonsense.
 
Hey everyone,

I've been reading these forums for some time, but have only been posting on the Eliza Vargas forum on facebook, reason being I get more of a kick out of arguing with the guilters than discussing with those of us who support Knox. One idiot keeps posting this list over and over again and asking me to address the "points". I really don't know why I bother, I'm not sure my blood pressure can handle much more of this illogical idiocy...


* the DNA of Raffaele Sollecito on Meredith’s bra-clasp in her locked bedroom;
* the almost-entire naked footprint of Raffaele on a bathmat that in *no way* fits that of the other male in this case – Rudy Guede;
* the fact that Raffaele’s own father blew their alibi that they were together in Raffaele’s flat at the time of the killing with indisputable telephone records;
* the DNA of Meredith Kercher on the knife in Raffaele’s flat which Raffaele himself sought to explain as having been from accidentally “pricking” Meredith’s hand in his written diary despite the fact Meredith had never been to his flat (confirmed by Amanda Knox);
* the correlation of where Meredith’s phones were found to the location of Raffaele Sollecito and Rudy Guedes’s flats;
* the computer records which show that no-one was at Raffaele’s computer during the time of the murder despite him claiming he was using that computer;
* Amanda’s DNA mixed with Meredith Kercher’s in five different places just feet from Meredith’s body;
* the utterly inexplicable computer records the morning after the murder starting at 5.32 am and including multiple file creations and interactions thereafter all during a time that Raffaele and Amanda insist they were asleep until 10.30am;
* the separate witnesses who testified on oath that Amanda and Raffaele were at the square 40 metres from the girls’ cottage on the evening of the murder and the fact that Amanda was seen at a convenience store at 7.45am the next morning, again while she said she was in bed;
* the accusation of a completely innocent man by Amanda Knox;
* the fact that when Amanda Knox rang Meredith’s mobile telephones, ostensibly to check on the “missing” Meredith, she did so for just three seconds - registering the call but making no effort to allow the phone to be answered in the real world
* the knife-fetish of Raffaele Sollecito and his formal disciplinary punishment for watching animal porn at his university – so far from the wholesome image portrayed;
* the fact that claimed multi-year kick-boxer Raffaele apparently couldn’t break down a flimsy door to Meredith’s room when he and Amanda were at the flat the morning after the murder but the first people in the flat with the police who weren’t martial artists could;
* the extensive hard drug use of Sollecito as told on by Amanda Knox;
* the fact that Amanda knew details of the body and the wounds despite not being in line of sight of the body when it was discovered;
* the lies of Knox on the witness stand in July 2009 about how their drug intake that night (“one joint”) is totally contradicted by Sollecito’s own contemporaneous diary;
* the fact that after a late evening’s questioning, Knox wrote a 2,900 word email home which painstakingly details what she said happened that evening and the morning after that looks *highly* like someone committing to memory, at 3.30 in the morning, an extensive alibi;
* the fact that both Amanda and Raffaele both said they would give up smoking dope for life in their prison diaries despite having apparently nothing to regret;
* the fact that when Rudy Guede was arrested, Raffaele Sollecito didn’t celebrate the “true” perpetrator being arrested (which surely would have seen him released) but worried in his diary that a man whom he said he didn’t know would “make up strange things” about him despite him just being one person in a city of over 160,000 people;
* the fact that both an occupant of the cottage and the police instantly recognised the cottage had not been burgled but had been the subject of a staged break-in where glass was *on top* of apparently disturbed clothes;
* that Knox and Sollecito both suggested each other might have committed the crime and Sollecito TO THIS DATE does not agree Knox stayed in his flat all the night in question;
* the bizarre behaviour of both of them for days after the crime;
* the fact that cellphone records show Knox did not stay in Sollecito’s flat but had left the flat at a time which is completely coincidental with Guede’s corroborated presence near the girl’s flat earlier in the evening;
* the fact that Amanda Knox’s table lamp was found in the locked room of Meredith Kercher in a position that suggested it had been used to examine for fine details of the murder scene in a clean up;
* the unbelievable series of changing stories made up by the defendants after their versions became challenged; Knox’s inexplicable reaction to being shown the knife drawer at the girl’s cottage where she ended up physically shaking and hitting her head.

I knew that list looked familiar. It was posted last month and responded to back then, on here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6161789#post6161789
 
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