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Syria getting bad

WildCat said:
Really? You don't see any problems with Iranian elections?
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The candidates are hand-picked by a commission of religious leaders.
These leaders are hand-picked by God.

I don't see how one could ever improve such a democratic system.
 
WildCat said:
Sure they were... :rolleyes:
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You missed the candle-light vigil in Tehran, didn't you?

They even let us cross their airspace a time or two and cheered us on in the early stages of the punitive expedition into Afghanistan.

Then the Shrub had to go totally butch on them and they realized that they had a lunatic walking along their borders.

Brilliant move.
 
Eddie Dane said:
The candidates are hand-picked by a commission of religious leaders.
These leaders are hand-picked by God.

I don't see how one could ever improve such a democratic system.
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Perhaps if they got to choose the God?

:confused:
 
leftysergeant said:
You missed the candle-light vigil in Tehran, didn't you?

They even let us cross their airspace a time or two and cheered us on in the early stages of the punitive expedition into Afghanistan.

Then the Shrub had to go totally butch on them and they realized that they had a lunatic walking along their borders.

Brilliant move.
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I see you're a sucker for a dog and pony show, style over substance.
 
WildCat said:
Venezuela has no free press (among other things), which is essential if a country wants to call itself a democracy IMHO. So I take issue with your claim that Chavez was democratically elected.
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I am as big a critic of Chavez as anyone here but this is not a true statement. They have a poor track record for punishing and trying to silence opposition leaning press but there is free press. For now. What there is is a huge bias in the amount of nationally available state biased press and a seeming attempt by Chavez to clamp down even more.

Observers generally agree that the elections themselves are not suspect. More people voted against Chavez last time than voted for him.

There is a lot to castigate Chavez and his goons for without getting into CT type stuff IMHO. It is no better than the accusations of Bush being involved in the attempted coup.
 
funk de fino said:
I am as big a critic of Chavez as anyone here but this is not a true statement. They have a poor track record for punishing and trying to silence opposition leaning press but there is free press.
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When opposition news media is shut down or stifled at the whim of Dear Leader that means "no free press" in my book, whether or not a token few opposition outlets remain.
 
leftysergeant said:
Then what are we supposed to do, other than to just ignore Assad? You have not addessed any of what I said with other than GOP talking points. There really is nothing we could do short of military action or massive, hard-to-conceal covert ops, so it is best that we just leave it to the career diplomats to do what little need be done by us.
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I already told you. Mubarak was told to leave "yesterday". He "had to go". The Egyptians are little Facebook George Washingtons. Why couldn't they say the same about Assad? Assad is NOT a reformer. He is a Baathist dictator with US and allied blood on his hands who made no reforms on anything. Calling him a reformer is a weak move.
 
I, for one, am waiting for enormous demonstrations of folks in Berkeley with photographs of youths throwing rocks at Syrian or Egyptian or Libyan tanks, with huge banners "FREE SYRIA!" or "DOWN WITH FASCISTIC LIBYAN REGIME!".

Fat chance, I know.
 
Skeptic said:
I, for one, am waiting for enormous demonstrations of folks in Berkeley with photographs of youths throwing rocks at Syrian or Egyptian or Libyan tanks, with huge banners "FREE SYRIA!" or "DOWN WITH FASCISTIC LIBYAN REGIME!".

Fat chance, I know.
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Check out these prats:



Notice the pic of the guy with Star of David on his tie. Just can't help bringing the Jews into it.

AnswerCoalition is a front group for the Workers World Party, a whacko Marxist sect who supported the Soviet Union, Cuba, China, Slobodan Milosevic, Saddam Hussein, the Iraqi insurgency, Hamas, Hezbollah, ect.
 
Every day is opposites' day in these demonstrations.

If it's called a "worker's party", it's certain most of the members never worked a day in their lives.

The "anarchists" are protesting against reduction in government payouts.

"Worldwide movement coalition" parties usually have seventeen members, all in Berkeley, California.

If it's a "united movement", it's a tiny splinter group.

If it has "freedom" in the movement's title, chances are it's demonstrating in support of some dictator.

"Fighting against racism" folks usually are busy spreading antisemitic conspiracy theories.

"Pacifists for nonviolent resistance" folks call for the murder of people they disagree with.

Ah well.
 
Skeptic said:
Every day is opposites' day in these demonstrations.

If it's called a "worker's party", it's certain most of the members never worked a day in their lives.

The "anarchists" are protesting against reduction in government payouts.

"Worldwide movement coalition" parties usually have seventeen members, all in Berkeley, California.

If it's a "united movement", it's a tiny splinter group.

If it has "freedom" in the movement's title, chances are it's demonstrating in support of some dictator.

"Fighting against racism" folks usually are busy spreading antisemitic conspiracy theories.

"Pacifists for nonviolent resistance" folks call for the murder of people they disagree with.

Ah well.
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Strange world.

The Islamo-left:

 
WildCat said:
Venezuela has no free press (among other things), which is essential if a country wants to call itself a democracy IMHO. So I take issue with your claim that Chavez was democratically elected.
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Back when the coup took place he was in his first term and I don't think the freedom or otherwise of the press has much influence on that election.
 
Virus said:
I already told you. Mubarak was told to leave "yesterday". He "had to go". The Egyptians are little Facebook George Washingtons. Why couldn't they say the same about Assad?
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Because Assad would tell you to get lost and then you haven't got any good options.

Assad is NOT a reformer. He is a Baathist dictator with US and allied blood on his hands who made no reforms on anything. Calling him a reformer is a weak move.
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It's a pragmatic move. In any case things are moving so fast that people are not to worried about looking weak so much as irrelivant. Talking of which what's Australia's position on syria? Wait, don't bother no one cares.
 
There is n easy way into Syria and no eay way out, other than to stay the hell out to begin with.
 
I never said anything about going into Syria. Just don't pretend this drug dealing regime that killed US troops and destabilized the region with terror is a reformer. He should have been called what he is.
 
Virus said:
I never said anything about going into Syria. Just don't pretend this drug dealing regime that killed US troops and destabilized the region with terror is a reformer.
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Strangely you can deal in drugs, kill troops of whatever nation you like and destabilized the entire planet and still be a reformer. Those have no impact one way or the other on if you are a reformer or not.

He should have been called what he is.
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err a semi qualified ophthalmologist (Seriously if you lived in london at the right time you could have recived treatment from this guy) and an unqualified opressive dictator? I'm not sure thats helpful.

Diplomacy involves subtlety of language. Okey it doesn't have to but there is a reason the north korean style of diplomacy is generaly limited to states considered weird. The point of calling him a reformer is not that anyone belives that (hey for all we know it might actualy be true due to starting from a low base and of course economicaly he is) but to suggest that it is in his interests to be a reformer.

Of course if the protestors manage to atchive some localised territorial control (unlikely) or al-Assad breaks out the mustard gas (possible) then I expect fresh statements to be issued.
 
By calling Assad a reformer, and telling Mubarak "he has to go" America is punishing its allies and appeasing enemies. It sends out the message that if you're relatively light on repression, then you're a bad guy. But if you machine gun protesters you're a reformer. Other states that haven't yet been hit hard by protests will remember that.

I don't consider that good diplomacy. I do agree however that it's part of the administration's fruitless attempt to engage with Syria based on erroneous assumptions about how Arab societies work.
 
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