Merged 8.8 quake in Sendai, Japan

[quadraginta]

Yes people still be getting their electricity, nothing will change except the amount of coal burned... but no one will see that.

Unless they look at Google Earth, and see more mountaintops being chopped off.

 

[Christian Klippel]

Yes people still be getting their electricity, nothing will change except the amount of coal burned... but no one will see that.

Exactly, and that's the really sad part about all that. They completely neglect the damage and waste done by using coal plants. They completely ignore that in their argument. And if you point it out, you will be immediately labeled as a paid nuclear industry shill, and a massively lying one at that too.

But then, they also forget the environmental impact that comes with the production of solar cells, as well as the fact that very rare materials are needed to produce them, gathered by employing really, really nasty methods.

As i said (i guess in the other thread already): The anti-nuke folks seem to think that solar panels and wind generators grow on trees, will install themselves, will automatically hook themselves up to the grid, use absolutely no space at all, and are 100% green.

Greetings,

Chris

 

[9/11-investigator]

To be fair, I have seen some Athiests who are just as intolerent as religious fundies.

Neo-bolshies?

 

[alfaniner]

Watching them drop the water on the reactors right now, I can't help but think -- what happens when you suddenly cool a superheated material?

 

[Puppycow]

Watching them drop the water on the reactors right now, I can't help but think -- what happens when you suddenly cool a superheated material?

I don't know about that, but do you think they are somehow getting the water where it needs to go? I'm at work without TV. I'm amazed that it has come to this.

 

[dudalb]

I don't know about that, but do you think they are somehow getting the water where it needs to go? I'm at work without TV. I'm amazed that it has come to this.

THe next step is asking for volunteers to take a hose up to the exposed material.......but that is the kind of thing where you would give them a ceremonial Sake toast before they start.....

 

[Pulvinar]

But then, they also forget the environmental impact that comes with the production of solar cells, as well as the fact that very rare materials are needed to produce them, gathered by employing really, really nasty methods.

This shows though that there's plenty of misinformation on all sides.

 

[Puppycow]

unfortunately the US NRC is starting to sound like that too:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1

Two rather different things though, isn't it? The NRC is talking about immediate responses to the actual event whereas the Germans are talking about long-term responses to other nuclear power plants which the Japanese case may not even have any relevance to. Is Germany subject to earthquakes and tsunamis like Japan?

 

[Kestrel]

THe next step is asking for volunteers to take a hose up to the exposed material.......but that is the kind of thing where you would give them a ceremonial Sake toast before they start.....

Or figure out how to use a really long pole to get a hose in place.

 

[sts60]

From reading various news bits here and there, I get the impression that they are working on three different approaches:
- a master stream (fire hose + nozzle with > 500 gallons per minute flow) directed into the breach in the secondary containment in order to replenish the water in the fuel rod pool. A crew of three men could roll up in an engine, set up a portable master stream, and start water flowing in a few minutes, then boogie. (In typical conditions wearing typical firefighting gear; that is.)
- the helicopter water dumps, which we know are happening.
- restoring power to the coolant pumps, either bringing electricity from offsite or bringing the Diesel generators back on line.

It makes sense to me, anyway, having plans A, B, and C all working at once. But we'll see if my impression is accurate.

 

[Christian Klippel]

This shows though that there's plenty of misinformation on all sides.

Are you meaning that the statement i made is wrong?

If so: Yes, i know that solar cells can be made from silicon. And yes, i also know that there is a practically unlimited supply of it. But they have a lower efficiency than cells made of other materials. It simply is not feasible to use them to produce huge amounts of electricity, due to the amount of area that such big systems will need.
[ETA: And of course due to amount of cells that have to be produced, considering that the production process itself involves nasty stuff as well.]

So they want to use more efficient cells now, to get more energy from the same surface-area. However, this is where the problem with the rare materials kicks in. Here is an article about one of the most efficient solar cell designs in the laboratory, while the less efficient versions of them are already on the market and are widely used. Market for these cells grows rapidly. However, for Indium and Gallium, the worldwide demand/use already exceeds the yearly supply. This situation is made worse by the fact that other products besides solar cells heavily rely on these materials.

And indium reserves are estimated to be depleted in this decade. Theoretical indium resources are 6000 metric tons, but only 2800 metric tons are feasible to get out of the earth economically.

So, what kind of misinformation did you refer to, in case you meant to imply that i was misinformed?

If i have something wrong, please go ahead and correct me.

Greetings,

Chris

 

[dudalb]

Anderson Cooper is now using the "Keeping them Honest" line about the crisis.
Frankly, I could beat the crap out of him now. The Keeping them honest gimmick has ruined CNN news,IMHO.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Why are you (kind of) against nuclear power?

(I assume this is true since you say you would prefer it wasn't necessary).

ETA: Bah, meant Rolfe.

 

[Christian Klippel]

Here is some positive story in all that mess, especially for those who were thinking about pets left behind.

Not much, i know, but at least some tiny piece of good news.

Greetings,

Chris

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Never mind how many a-bombs the US detonated in Japan.
Have you any idea how many have been tested in Nevada?

Does that explain why I turned out the way I did?

 

[Corsair 115]

Anderson Cooper is now using the "Keeping them Honest" line about the crisis.
Frankly, I could beat the crap out of him now.

Well, a crowd in Egypt tried to not too long ago.

 

[BenBurch]

Does that explain why I turned out the way I did?

It may explain why you don't speak Russian.

 

[Alan]

THE Japanese owner of the stricken Fukushima nuclear plant falsified safety data and "dishonestly" tried to cover up problems there.

Tokyo Electric Power Co injected air into the containment vessel of Fukushima reactor No 1 to artificially “lower the leak rate”. When caught, the company expressed its “sincere apologies for conducting dishonest practices”.

The misconduct came to light in 2002 after whistleblowers working for General Electric, which designed the reactor, complained to the Japanese government. Another GE employee later confessed that he had falsified records of inspections of reactor No1 in 1989 - at the request of TEPCO officials. He also admitted to falsifying other inspection reports, also on request of the client. After that incident TEPCO was forced to shut down 17 reactors, albeit temporarily.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/fuk...spection-records/story-fn84naht-1226023073141

 

[Beerina]

Watching them drop the water on the reactors right now, I can't help but think -- what happens when you suddenly cool a superheated material?

They installed plates on the bottom of the helicopters to block the radiation, good lord.

 

[gumboot]

My understanding is that this whole problem was created because the tsunami knocked out the diesel generators, correct?

My question is simple. Why were they unable to replace them with a mobile generator within a matter of hours?

Surely you'd allow for an obvious contingency like that, wouldn't you?

In the film industry we use generator trucks all the time with substantial electrical output. Our army has generators mounted on 4WD Unimog trucks that can drive through water pretty much up to the top of the cabin (it's generally a good idea to leave a little gap at the top so the driver can see).