Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Justinian2]

The Knox family is trying to prevent an innocent daughter from having her life destroyed by jail. In the process, they are giving much needed exposure to a system that is more like an inquisition than a judicial system.

Mr. Kercher is suing a family that is already the victim of a neo-inquisition.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

It looks like you have been presented two cites giving Raffaele's dad's testimony regarding his wealth from property he inherited when his mom died. Are you saying that the people that reported this are lying or are you saying that Raffaele's dad is lying? Here is a third cite giving the same testimony from Raffaele's dad:

http://wildgreta.wordpress.com/2009/06/20/meredith-genitori-in-aula-difendono-amanda-e-raffaele/

I wonder if there is some finite value of n such that presenting n citations to Alt+F4 will make her acknowledge that there is evidence for the claim.

We've tested n=1 and n=2. Will n=3 do the trick?

Meanwhile in the reality-based community I think we can safely agree amongst ourselves at that Raffaele's father claimed Raffaele was heir to a fortune very much worth suing for. We might even dare to go so far as to think it more likely than not that Raffaele's father was not lying in this statement.

Of course that opens the door to the possibility that Maresca or the Kerchers might have their eyes on that money and might not be solely motivated by genuine justice-seeking. It proves nothing. It merely opens up the possibility.

Mind you, suing a penniless student for millions is a bit of an odd thing to do. Generally speaking people who sue do so in the expectation of at least a possible payday. Otherwise there is no point.

 

[pilot padron]

Are you playing games deliberately to waste our time ....

A cursory examination of the amount of 'precious' time required to read the dramatically reduced people still posting on this thread would make even a casual (quick, little time expended) scanner conclude that the above argument is illogical, irrelevant, increasingly desperate, and as per custom, definitely borderline discourteous and demeaning.

 

[colonelhall]

Thank you Justinian. I see where you are coming from.

As somebody who opposes the unanimous verdict of the jury, you see the family of the convicted girl as fighters for justice and victims of the murdered girl's father.

A strange view in my opinion and not one that I share.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

People here may conclude that the father of a murdered girl would not have followed the case and considered every piece of evidence in detail. They may also conclude that he cannot possibly be as well informed as anonymous posters on a web site. They may also feel that he has no right of any opinion on the outcome of the trial and is just as misguided as every single member of the jury that reached a guilty verdict.

These same people may think, or like to give the impression, that the father of the murdered girl is driven only by avarice. Whether they put forward this idea because of their own warped idea of humanity or because they are mischievous beyond belief, I have no idea. However, I have a good idea of how these people would come across to any right minded individual wandering to this site and reading what they have to say.

Good post. I believe the Kercher’s naturally want to know why their daughter\sister was murdered.

 

[Justinian2]

Thank you Justinian. I see where you are coming from.

As somebody who opposes the unanimous verdict of the jury, you see the family of the convicted girl as fighters for justice and victims of the murdered girl's father.

A strange view in my opinion and not one that I share.

Thankyou colonelhall. I know where your are coming from. You believe the courts, Mignini, and the PMF group. You are 100% sure that Amanda and Raffaele also killed Meredith before, while, or after Guede did the same.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

People here may conclude that the father of a murdered girl would not have followed the case and considered every piece of evidence in detail. They may also conclude that he cannot possibly be as well informed as anonymous posters on a web site.

That or he's just not as smart and scientifically literate as some of us here.

He's factually wrong. We can be sure of that. Why he's so wrong is open to speculation if you like, I suppose, although I don't much care myself.

They may also feel that he has no right of any opinion on the outcome of the trial and is just as misguided as every single member of the jury that reached a guilty verdict.

Some say everyone has a right to their own opinion, but not a right to their own facts. Mr Kercher's view of the facts is simply wrong. There's no getting around that.

These same people may think, or like to give the impression, that the father of the murdered girl is driven only by avarice. Whether they put forward this idea because of their own warped idea of humanity or because they are mischievous beyond belief, I have no idea.

You must live in Alt+F4's world where people happily pay lawyers to sue penniless people for millions of euros purely for the spectacle of it.

Over here in the real world when people do that they have their eyes on some sort of prize.

Maybe the Kercher's honestly believe Raffaele murdered Meredith and that they are entitled to his money. I can't say.

However, I have a good idea of how these people would come across to any right minded individual wandering to this site and reading what they have to say.

I don't think than anyone is going to be fooled by your pretended concern.

I think it's vital to a complete understanding of the case to know that the Kerchers and Maresca stand to grab a seven figure windfall if Raffaele's conviction is upheld. It explains a lot about the curiously close relationship between Maresca and the prosecution, and the curiously formulaic and outright erroneous statements put out under Mr Kercher's name.

People have done far worse, for far less.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

right here

To all,

Fulcanelli accused the [Mellas and/or Knox] family of whoring out their daughter. I hope this ends our excursion and we can get back to the merits of the case, including what Mr. Kercher said.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

For the sake of discussion, what do you think should happen in the context of court appointed compensation if Raffaele and Amanda lost both of their appeal?

By the same token do you think Raffaele and Amanda should be able to sue the Italian authorities, newspapers or any individuals who may have slandered them if they won their appeal?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

tunnel vision

I don't really see how 17-year-old DNA evidence in Britain has anything to do with the DNA being "Too Low" or with the possibility of contamination in this case. I also don't agree with the characterization of Stefanoni as an internationally respected scientist.

RoseMontague,

Exactly. It is not the length of time in and of itself. It is that the clasp was moved around by unknown means, that it got dusty, and that it was handled incorrectly when it was collected that are issues of concern. Most of all, it is the fact that it was not even taken into evidence until Raffaele had been arrested and his family was starting to punch holes in the case. Why ignore the fact that there is DNA on the clasp that is not Meredith's or Raffaele's? That is, at best, tunnel vision.

 

[Maya C]

The purpose of the civil suit by the Kerchers is to ensure that Meredith's murderers do not profit via books, movies, and/or selling their story. Period. The figure awarded to them is symbolic.

Raffaele couldn't be doing all that well. He only had the US equivalent of $40 in his account when he was arrested.

Mind you, I got permanently banned at IIP for stating this (as Agnes Gloop) and suggesting that we were better than this (having a go at the victim's family/father)

I thought I might post it here so those of you insisting on the Kercher family being greedy might perhaps think before continuing this line of thought. I understand that floating this story of Kercher greed appeals to our need for drama. Truth is boring.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

what do you mean symbolic?

The purpose of the civil suit by the Kerchers is to ensure that Meredith's murderers do not profit via books, movies, and/or selling their story. Period. The figure awarded to them is symbolic.

Maya C,

Are you saying that the Kercher's will not collect any money if they win their suit? Can you provide a citation? How much money Raffaele had in a bank account is not indicative of his wealth. MOO.

 

[RoseMontague]

The purpose of the civil suit by the Kerchers is to ensure that Meredith's murderers do not profit via books, movies, and/or selling their story. Period. The figure awarded to them is symbolic.

Has Rudy tried to sell his story? Where does any symbolic profit go?

Raffaele couldn't be doing all that well. He only had the US equivalent of $40 in his account when he was arrested.

I wonder how much that property is worth? His dad used the term wealthy.

Mind you, I got permanently banned at IIP for stating this (as Agnes Gloop) and suggesting that we were better than this (having a go at the victim's family/father)

Maya C is a better name than Agnes Gloop, in my opinion. Still, the mods here are unpredictable.

I thought I might post it here so those of you insisting on the Kercher family being greedy might perhaps think before continuing this line of thought. I understand that floating this story of Kercher greed appeals to our need for drama. Truth is boring.

I am not convinced it is greed and I think your first point is a valid one in this regard. It could be as a way to prevent whoever they believe the murderer is from making money off their story or it could also be as an additional punishment as well. It is clear that the Kercher's have spent a great deal of their own funds and they have also lost a loved one so I really don't have a problem with them winning a civil judgment (as long as it is against someone who was responsible).

 

[bri1]

Thank you Justinian. I see where you are coming from.

As somebody who opposes the unanimous verdict of the jury, you see the family of the convicted girl as fighters for justice and victims of the murdered girl's father.

A strange view in my opinion and not one that I share.

Quick note:- one of the members of this jury justified the verdict saying 'it's possible' they'd done it!

Many (most?) people who believe in innocence, don't only believe that AK and RS are innocent, but we also believe that they should never (had the police investigation gone as it should) have even been considered suspects- many believe that many officials involved in the investigation (with the press colluding willingly for their own cynical reasons) have gone beyond both their job descriptions and the bounds of decency & morality in order to persecute and victimise these people. Therefore anyone getting involved in furthering this persecution is in a very morally dubious position, even if they are doing so through thoughtlessness or ignorance. John Kercher has an excuse, but one that is exhaustable. We can say that he is a victim of Maresca/ Mignini's agenda all we want, but the info is out there for those genuinely interested in the truth.
Also, I find it fairly strange that the guilters are perfectly OK with morally judging a 20 year old girl whose friend / room mate had just been violently murdered, and who was in shock as well as grieving, on her behaviour and priorities, and yet the idea of any judgement passed on John Kercher's behaviour must be beyond the pale to them.

 

[christianahannah]

The purpose of the civil suit by the Kerchers is to ensure that Meredith's murderers do not profit via books, movies, and/or selling their story. Period. The figure awarded to them is symbolic.

Raffaele couldn't be doing all that well. He only had the US equivalent of $40 in his account when he was arrested.

Mind you, I got permanently banned at IIP for stating this (as Agnes Gloop) and suggesting that we were better than this (having a go at the victim's family/father)

I thought I might post it here so those of you insisting on the Kercher family being greedy might perhaps think before continuing this line of thought. I understand that floating this story of Kercher greed appeals to our need for drama. Truth is boring.

You are correct in that a civil judgment against someone who is convicted of murder is mostly symbolic. It places a value on the life which was taken away so violently.

In this case if Amanda and Raffaele are found guilty at the end of the judicial process they will not serve out the rest of their life in prison. There would be the possibility they could profit from Meredith's murder. This is what a civil judgment against the guilty hopes to discourage.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

You are correct in that a civil judgment against someone who is convicted of murder is mostly symbolic. It places a value on the life which was taken away so violently.

In this case if Amanda and Raffaele are found guilty at the end of the judicial process they will not serve out the rest of their life in prison. There would be the possibility they could profit from Meredith's murder. This is what a civil judgment against the guilty hopes to discourage.

christianahannah,

Was Rudi charged in a civil suit?

 

[colonelhall]

Kevin Lowe:

You really do come out with some amazing stuff!

"That or he's just not as smart and scientifically literate as some of us here."

From the tone of your posts over a period of time, I really do think that you count yourself as one of those who are smarter than the rest. Was it Yogi Bear who had some catchphrase about this?

"He's factually wrong. We can be sure of that. Why he's so wrong is open to speculation if you like,"

Not only do you expect people to take it as given that anyone not agreeing with you is wrong, but you imply that Kercher may know that he is wrong and is after the dosh.

"Mr Kercher's view of the facts is simply wrong. There's no getting around that."

If there were no getting around it, there would have been no guilty verdict and no appeal.

"Maybe the Kercher's honestly believe Raffaele murdered Meredith and that they are entitled to his money." Once again implying that they are after the money and a hint that they don't actually believe in their guilt.

"I don't think than anyone is going to be fooled by your pretended concern."
Oh, I am concerned alright! Add to that "outraged" at the tone of some of the posters here.

"You must live in Alt+F4's world where people happily pay lawyers to sue penniless people for millions of euros purely for the spectacle of it."

I wonder how others view Kevin Lowe's world.

 

[Maya C]

Regarding civil suit against Rudy Guede:

http://www.komonews.com/news/31289964.html#13002023111492&if_height=282

Thank you to Christiana; you said that much clearer than I could have.

I only posted this to clear up the notion that the family of the victim was somehow motivated by greed. I will once again take my leave.

 

[Amazer]

I wonder how others view Kevin Lowe's world.

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for civility.

 

[Katody Matrass]

The purpose of the civil suit by the Kerchers is to ensure that Meredith's murderers do not profit via books, movies, and/or selling their story.

Profiting from selling story while the jury decides your fate and the media scrutinize your every facial expression? That would be a suicidal move.

I think Mr. Kercher explains better the reason of the lawsuit as he sees it:

In court our lawyer demanded €21m (£18m) in compensation from the defendants, but this was a purely symbolic amount, seen in Italy as a way of demonstrating the severity of the case.​

It was to demonstrate which decision they will approve and to support the prosecution's case with that moral pressure.

I wouldn't blame Kerchers. It seems more likely that the idea was forced by Maresca and prosecution - Maresca is profiting, prosecution gets support for their shaky case. Kerchers only lost 40 000 and suffered more.