Merged 8.8 quake in Sendai, Japan

Rolfe said:
Flooding has happened here, but it was a flash flood from Tarfhaugh Hill. Twice. It seems only to happen when the hill is ploughed. If the farmer tries to plough it again, he may get a visit from the boys....

Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about, and I've seen the Lyne Water when they opened the sluice gates at Baddingsgill. Mothers were snatching their children away, literally. However, we're a fair bit below the gorge (yes I've walked, and cycled, the Cauldstane Slap), and you know what haugh means. There's a pretty wide flood plain here. (Lyne Park, those houses you liked - that would give me the screaming ab-dabs actually.)

My assessment is that serious property damage is far from impossible if the wrong stuff happened, but actual washing away of the house is probably a different matter. I actually eyed it all up and looked at the contour lines before I bought the house. If you think Tarfhaugh and/or Castlelaw Hills are capable of pulling an Aberfan, then that could be different of course.

And fault lines - I'll take my chances with any of the ones in Scotland. It's not exactly the Ring of Fire.

Rolfe.
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Well, not now . You should have seen it in the Devonian.:D
Indeed, the "haugh" is a bit of a giveaway. Any idea what the "Tarf" means?
And shouldn't you be abed?

Incidentally- your ploughing floods suggest a suspended water table. Just the sort of place to liquefy in a quake.
Sell now.
 
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Yeah, time to turn in.

I did find out what the Tarf bit means, but I've forgotten.

Maybe you can tell me your reminiscences of life in the Devonian some day soon, grandpa.... :D

Rolfe.
 
gumboot said:
Let's say they can't cool the plant and it suffers total meltdown. Then what?
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My impression (as a non-expert) is that the reason why there's no definitive answer to this is that people just aren't sure. So much depends on what happens to the plant and on environmental variables that it's very difficult to speculate, and experts don't want to forecast what can happen.
 
gumboot said:
Let's say they can't cool the plant and it suffers total meltdown. Then what?
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The reactor fuel melts into a pool at the bottom of the containment vessel where it could restart a chain reaction. The boron solution dumped into the containment just before they started pumping in seawater should make a chain reaction unlikely. But if one does start up, it could generate enough heat to melt the bottom of the containment vessel. When it spills out of the bottom and hits the concrete floor, the melted fuel will spread out again and the chain reaction will stop.

Anyone in the building will get a large dose of radiation. Nasty radioactive stuff will get into the atmosphere and drift with the wind. Out to sea if we are lucky, towards populated areas if we are not.
 
gumboot said:
Let's say they can't cool the plant and it suffers total meltdown. Then what?
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[non-expert] If the core containment vessel hasn't been breached: truck it away and dispose of it after it cools down. If it has been breached: environmental contamination -- bad news! The good news is the reactor's design separates the building structure, where the hydrogen explosions have been, from the core containment vessel, where meltdown happens. Rupture of the core containment vessel's still possible, but much less likely, we are told, than with a poorly-designed reactor, like Chernobyl. Let's hope reports of a sharp increase in radioactivity at the plant after the lastest explosion don't mean a core breach. [/non-expert]


eta: kestrel's explanation more to the point.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
It's really strange, I see the "breaking news" 6.2 quake, new tsunami warning, but the USGS monitoring site shows no new 6.2 quake and the last 6.0 quake had no tsunami, (neither have any of the aftershocks).

USGS Japan area current EQ list


Makes me think this is just because more news media folks are on scene now and they are there to report on the frequent warnings for every significant aftershock.
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Keep in mind that the USGS monitors earthquakes in the whole world. Their network is too sparse to give the kind of instant notification that Japan's local network provides. The seismic waves would have to travel to the detectors before they are picked up and the epicenter can be triangulated. For the Japan area this will be about 20 minutes.
 
blobru said:
[non-expert] If the core containment vessel hasn't been breached: truck it away and dispose of it after it cools down. If it has been breached: environmental contamination -- bad news! The good news is the reactor's design separates the building structure, where the hydrogen explosions have been, from the core containment vessel, where meltdown happens. Rupture of the core containment vessel's still possible, but much less likely, we are told, than with a poorly-designed reactor, like Chernobyl. Let's hope reports of a sharp increase in radioactivity at the plant after the lastest explosion don't mean a core breach. [/non-expert]

eta: kestrel's explanation more to the point.
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From the reports I've seen, the radiation "spike" you're referring to amounts to less than one x-ray's worth of radiation. It's not something I'm particularly concerned about, especially because it seems the increase in radiation levels was temporary.
 
MattusMaximus said:
From the reports I've seen, the radiation "spike" you're referring to amounts to less than one x-ray's worth of radiation. It's not something I'm particularly concerned about, especially because it seems the increase in radiation levels was temporary.
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Great to see some precision, MM. :) I was watching CNN as I typed, whose reporting on this, imo, has tended to be vague verging on alarmism.
 
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Dan O. said:
Keep in mind that the USGS monitors earthquakes in the whole world. Their network is too sparse to give the kind of instant notification that Japan's local network provides. The seismic waves would have to travel to the detectors before they are picked up and the epicenter can be triangulated. For the Japan area this will be about 20 minutes.
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That's just not the case. Data is electronic, it isn't carried by the pony express. Now there are plenty of places on the planet that are not monitored for low level quakes. But large quakes are registered on seismographs around the globe, even when local monitoring is not set up. And Japan has plenty of monitoring online.

The grid is set up to also register tidal waves across the Pacific, so all the Pacific is monitored and the reports go to the USGS.

Now, looking back, one of the 5.8 quakes was upgraded to 6.1 so that's what happened in this case. But, the people who are unreliable are not the USGS and related organizations. The people who are not reliable are the news people. After all this time and recent reporting on the Haiti, Chile and New Zealand quakes, the news media still relies on their inefficient data sources. So the reporter on the ground who acts on rumors is seen as the source. And expert is interviewed. But do you think CNN or the others actually have the intelligence to check the USGS web page?

There certainly isn't any evidence mainstream reporters have any science oriented brain cells in their pointy little heads. It's sad.
 
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This seems to be being widely reported:

Reactor on fire
Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said a fourth reactor at the complex was on fire and more radiation had been released.

"Now we are talking about levels that can damage human health. These are readings taken near the area where we believe the releases are happening. Far away, the levels should be lower," he said.
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blobru said:
Great to see some precision, MM. :) I was watching CNN as I typed, whose reporting on this, imo, has tended to be vague verging on alarmism.
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My advice is to stop watching the TV. It rots your brain, anyway ;)

Btw, if anyone else here with some expertise sees any reason to dispute my numbers, fire away. Thanks.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
This seems to be being widely reported:

Reactor on fire
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Now i'm wondering, when they write:

"Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said a fourth reactor at the complex was on fire and more radiation had been released."

But then, 3 of the six reactors were shut down, so how could a fourth one there catch fire? And doesn't that wording imply that the other three are also on fire?

Greetings,

Chris
 
MattusMaximus said:
My advice is to stop watching the TV. It rots your brain, anyway ;)
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Word!

Man, i'm so sick of the current media frenzy over the reactors. You can not imagine what a field day the anti-nuclear folks over here in Germany have right now. It's utterly disgusting, especially hearing/seeing their line of completely stupid pseudo-reasoning.

Greetings,

Chris
 
Christian Klippel said:
Now i'm wondering, when they write:

"Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said a fourth reactor at the complex was on fire and more radiation had been released."

But then, 3 of the six reactors were shut down, so how could a fourth one there catch fire? And doesn't that wording imply that the other three are also on fire?

Greetings,

Chris
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The way I read this is that the reporting is, yet again, horribly sloppy. My sources indicate that 1) there was a release of radiation from unit 2, and 2) there is/was a fire at unit 4.

My guess is the doofus who wrote the article conflated the two; that or the doofus who briefed the prime minister conflated the two :rolleyes:
 
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MattusMaximus said:
The way I read this is that the reporting is, yet again, horribly sloppy. My sources indicate that 1) there was a release of radiation from unit 2, and 2) there is/was a fire at unit 4.

My guess is the doofus who wrote the article conflated the two; that or the doofus who briefed the prime minister conflated the two :rolleyes:
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Server is too busy at your link. So you're saying the situation at unit 2 is not as bad as reported? I've seen there has been subsantial damage during an explosion at no. 2 earlier today.
 
MattusMaximus said:
My advice is to stop watching the TV. It rots your brain, anyway ;) ...
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No TV for blobru! :wide-eyed (the scope of the disaster continues to widen)

CNN and other outlets' reporting of this convinces me there's a niche for something like an "Expert-TV", where events like this, and the reporting of them, could be commented on by individuals with less hairspray but more expertise than your typical news-anchor/talking-head in real-time.
 
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