Merged 8.8 quake in Sendai, Japan

[Bill Thompson]

About what?

Dude !!

By the way, we have lots of American military bases there. Has anyone heard what The Command In Chief has done to help the Japanese or the Amerricans in Japan? Has anyone whose family is in Japan heard what The State Department is doing to secure the welfare of Americans or the Japanese in Japan?

Yes.

So I ask you, Mr. Incomplete-Answer, "what have you heard?"!

I thought for a moment that you could not tell the difference between my asking IF The POTUS had done anything from WHAT The POTUS has done, but I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Bill Thompson]

A Japanese friend emailed me a link to a specific page on redcross.org:

http://www.redcross.org/portal/site...toid=f9efd2a1ac6ae210VgnVCM10000089f0870aRCRD

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Amazing video from a reporter walking in a Chiba City park. Suddenly the ground becomes moving jelly with numerous water main breaks popping up around him. Calm terror.

I think that's liquefaction. The pattern does not suggest water main breaks and he mentions it is reclaimed land, prime liquefaction territory. That's a fascinating video.

 

[gumboot]

I wonder how many people will turn out to have been killed by the earthquake itself, as opposed to the tsunami? The preparedness for the simple quake seemed to be pretty good. However, the towns closest to the epicentre were also those affected by the tsunami, so I suppose it's not a question anyone will be able to answer.

Rolfe.

I don't think it would be that high. The shaking intensity was only moderate. It was a big quake, but a long way off shore and the energy was spread over a long time (over two minutes, I believe).

 

[Soapy Sam]

I think that's liquefaction. The pattern does not suggest water main breaks and he mentions it is reclaimed land, prime liquefaction territory. That's a fascinating video.

Indeed it is.
Also, in some ways, the scariest thing I've seen throughout this crisis, because it is both deeply threatening and in a sense personal. He knows he's on reclaimed land. I rather think he knows what might happen , yet he's calmly filming it.

I'd have been running the hell away from the area.


ETA- UK REd Cross page for Japan.
http://www.redcross.org.uk/Donate-Now/Make-a-single-donation/Japan-Tsunami-Appeal

 

[William Parcher]

I think that's liquefaction. The pattern does not suggest water main breaks and he mentions it is reclaimed land, prime liquefaction territory. That's a fascinating video.

I think you are right. I related to this video because I experienced the same thing (without the water) in Costa Rica during an earthquake. The first thing I noticed was a sudden nausea like I would vomit while I was walking. I had no idea why I felt this way. I stopped and looked down to see the ground was undulating and wiggling like some crazy carnival ride. It was the most bizarre thing I had ever seen. The soil was moving around like a liquid but there was no jolting or shaking as I had imagined an earthquake would be.

My equilibrium was trashed because I was gently moving and the ground and objects around me weren't in perfect synch with me. I think I would have puked if I didn't look upwards to get my eyes off that weird ground movement. Then braced myself on a tree. I was more confused than scared. There was no real danger as I was far from the epicenter and in a forest on a mountain.

It remains one of the most profound experiences of my life.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Indeed it is.
Also, in some ways, the scariest thing I've seen throughout this crisis, because it is both deeply threatening and in a sense personal. He knows he's on reclaimed land. I rather think he knows what might happen , yet he's calmly filming it.

I'd have been running the hell away from the area.

It can't be that common for people to sink in liquefaction affected ground. It destabilizes buildings because they are heavy and tend to tip over as they sink unevenly. Perhaps if you were standing in a mudflat during an EQ, liquefaction would be a serious risk.

It wouldn't scare me. But were I in a slowly rolling quake (like I was in the Nisqually quake) my thoughts would be, somewhere else this quake is really bad.

 

[Soapy Sam]

There was no real danger as I was far from the epicenter and in a forest on a mountain.

I wouldn't believe that for a second, William.

It remains one of the most profound experiences of my life.

That I do believe.

 

[dudalb]

I think the amount of bad science given by the media over the past few days has given the gang at The Skeptic's guide to the Universe enough material for two or three shows. I am looking forward to see them rip into the bad reporting we have seen this weekend.

 

[dudalb]

I think you are right. I related to this video because I experienced the same thing (without the water) in Costa Rica during an earthquake. The first thing I noticed was a sudden nausea like I would vomit while I was walking. I had no idea why I felt this way. I stopped and looked down to see the ground was undulating and wiggling like some crazy carnival ride. It was the most bizarre thing I had ever seen. The soil was moving around like a liquid but there was no jolting or shaking as I had imagined an earthquake would be.

My equilibrium was trashed because I was gently moving and the ground and objects around me weren't in perfect synch with me. I think I would have puked if I didn't look upwards to get my eyes off that weird ground movement. Then braced myself on a tree. I was more confused than scared. There was no real danger as I was far from the epicenter and in a forest on a mountain.

It remains one of the most profound experiences of my life.

Having been in the SF Bay Area in 1989,that is pretty good description of what an earthquake feels like.
It's impossible to duplicate; that exhibit at the Natural Science Museum in London does not even come close.

 

[Soapy Sam]

It can't be that common for people to sink in liquefaction affected ground. It destabilizes buildings because they are heavy and tend to tip over as they sink unevenly. Perhaps if you were standing in a mudflat during an EQ, liquefaction would be a serious risk.

It wouldn't scare me. But were I in a slowly rolling quake (like I was in the Nisqually quake) my thoughts would be, somewhere else this quake is really bad.

Oh the sinking-in thing is a movie standard, like the falling into gaping cracks business. It can and does happen though, and as the vid shows, cracks open and close again. If you happen to put a foot in one in the dark as it's closing...(earthquakes also happen at night)...
... but more of a danger with liquefaction is mass slippage. William describes being in a mountain forest- sounds like prime landslide country to me. Trees bind soil together, but add weight to a slope. If that slope fluidises , even momentarily, you can find yourself in a major landslide.

I think one thing we should all take away from watching these events is the extent to which what seemed a safe and stable landscape can change totally in seconds around an event like this.

 

[Bell]

iTunes has now set up a link to donate money to the American Red Cross

(Link will open iTunes and lead to the store)

https://buy.itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZFinance.woa/wa/buyCharityGiftWizard

 

[William Parcher]

I wouldn't believe that for a second, William.

I was about 100 miles from the center and was way up on a mountain doing some birdwatching on a trail. I guess if it was much more powerful the trees may have come down. Maybe a landslide - but I was on the very top.

 

[MG1962]

It can't be that common for people to sink in liquefaction affected ground. It destabilizes buildings because they are heavy and tend to tip over as they sink unevenly. Perhaps if you were standing in a mudflat during an EQ, liquefaction would be a serious risk. .

Depends on the soil type - Sandy soil is extremely vunerable and there are reports of houses sinking during quakes. A lot of damage in the Bay area quake in 89 was caused by liquerfaction

 

[Akhenaten]

Indeed it is.
Also, in some ways, the scariest thing I've seen throughout this crisis, because it is both deeply threatening and in a sense personal. He knows he's on reclaimed land. I rather think he knows what might happen , yet he's calmly filming it.

I'd have been running the hell away from the area.

Here's some video of what I'd call really scary liquefaction from the 1964 earthquake in Niigata:

​

 

[Soapy Sam]

I was about 100 miles from the center and was way up on a mountain doing some birdwatching on a trail. I guess if it was much more powerful the trees may have come down. Maybe a landslide - but I was on the very top.

Earthquakes cause mountain ranges WP. Try not to make a habit of that.

 

[Rolfe]

The only earthquake I ever felt was a very minor tremor, and I was asleep in bed at the time (the tremor was enough to wake me). So I have no idea, really. It sounds absolutely terrifying.

Rolfe.

 

[MG1962]

Oh the sinking-in thing is a movie standard, like the falling into gaping cracks business. It can and does happen though, and as the vid shows, cracks open and close again. If you happen to put a foot in one in the dark as it's closing...(earthquakes also happen at night)...

The only report I have ever heard of this being a problem was the big SF quake in 1906. There is a photo of the hind quarter of a cow sticking out of the ground. Presumably the cow fell foward into the fissure and it closed before the animal could get out

 

[William Parcher]

Earthquakes cause mountain ranges WP. Try not to make a habit of that.

Are you kidding? I'd spend the rest of my life in a Costa Rican mountaintop cloud forest if I had the choice!

I was there before the ecotourism stampede and got to see the Golden Toads before they went extinct.

 

[Soapy Sam]

The only report I have ever heard of this being a problem was the big SF quake in 1906. There is a photo of the hind quarter of a cow sticking out of the ground. Presumably the cow fell foward into the fissure and it closed before the animal could get out

The Bay area is much like the area of reclaimed land the video maker described in that it's saturated and uncompacted to start with. Also flat , of course. Thing is , land like this may behave very differently ten feet either way. At least if it's flat you can (in daytime) see what's happening. If you are on a slope though, the whole area may slide as a result of the local water table being subjected to pressure at some point out of sight- which, in a forest, might be a few yards off.
There's really no way to guarantee safety. I think that's partly why people consistently describe raw terror during quakes. It sounds like the same thing I feel in turbulence in aircraft. We expect the Earth beneath our feet to be solid. When it isn't, we are disoriented , confused and terrified.