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Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Gringo Nightmare

The case of Eric Volz is very similar.

RoseMontague,

I have been reading his autobiography, "Gringo Nightmare" this week. Immediately after his arrest, he was put on display (in the back of a truck, IIRC) and they took him on an indirect route to their destination. When he tried to slouch down, he was propped back up. I don't like perp walks in the U.S., either, in case any one is wondering.
 
I think the Supreme Court's opinion is focused on Rudy, as it should be, since it is his appeal which is before the court, not Amanda's or Raffaele's. I do not come up with the same reason as you.

The confirmation of Rudy's guilt and the opinion that he did not act alone, only impacts Amanda's and Raffaele's defense in that the strategy of sticking with Rudy as the lone murderer is no longer in play. This could perhaps bring in the addition of the new witnesses (Allevio and Alessio) for their testimony against Rudy and perhaps even Rudy himself.

Agreed, the Supreme Court could hardly circumvent the appeal process with a direct ruling that could affect the appeal process in another case, that would be unjust. However, they have upheld the verdict of judge Micheli that Meredith was murdered by Guede and others, this ruling does effectively reject what was called the “lone wolf theory” that Guede acted alone, whatever differences are in the motivational reports you refer to it has not changed the overall verdict, in the case of Guede. I am certainly not going to jump to any conclusions as I have stated before the appeal has hardly started. However, this makes the defence team’s case more difficult as I believe it cannot be argued in a lower court that Guede is solely responsible when the Supreme Court has made its final ruling.

Would this overrule the Massei Report where he states that the scene was also 'compatible' with a lone attacker? I'm just wondering what this all might mean, because I can't possibly see how they could have 'confirmed' Rudy as a lone attacker in any case, as that would then basically exonerate Raffaele and Amanda and that would be a weird way of doing it being as they have their appeal going on right now. What result from all this would have been better for Amanda and Raffaele than what occurred, while still making any sense?
 
Would this overrule the Massei Report where he states that the scene was also 'compatible' with a lone attacker? I'm just wondering what this all might mean, because I can't possibly see how they could have 'confirmed' Rudy as a lone attacker in any case, as that would then basically exonerate Raffaele and Amanda and that would be a weird way of doing it being as they have their appeal going on right now. What result from all this would have been better for Amanda and Raffaele than what occurred, while still making any sense?
The Supreme Court has ruled in the context of Guede’s final appeal, it would be inappropriate for any further comment other than Guede and others were responsible for Meredith’s murder. Amanda and Raffaele first appeal is yet to be heard.
 
The SC probably thinks that we are hanging on their every word for a brilliant statement. The truth is that a statement that counters the innumerable baseless prosecutorial theories & libels would be more than adequate.

That the masters of deceit have the unmitigated gall to actually consider suing the Knox family for slander – considering the massive libel against the Knox family - is a hanging offense in my estimation.

LOL! Have you been following Frank Sfarzo's site, Perugia Shock lately? There were a couple of interesting items along with the news about Rudy's Motivations release. Here's the first one:

The Puglia TV Telenorba, aired on April 2008 the real crime scene video which showed Meredith. The Penal Court will take care of that on March 28. Together with the Telenorba journalists, accused of arbitrary publication of judicial acts is the whole Sollecito family... Just one of the many satellite trials of the case, similar to the one that sees Amanda’s parents on the dock.

If I recall correctly, this TV station would be the one that broadcast the bit about Raffaele's shoeprints not actually matching Rudy's which lead to that exuberant trek back to the murder site to find migrating evidence so the forensic technicians could all fondle it freely. If I have this right, this would be the fourth media outlet that has now been charged in this case by the prosecution. The West Seattle Herald, Oggi, Giornale dell 'Umbria, and now this TV station. Doesn't anybody notice this? :(

Also it looks like the Sollecito family gets their turn. Could this be so common in Italy, that both families get taken to court simply for defending their own from a ludicrous charge, that no one cares?

Here's what I found interesting about the charge on Amanda's Mom and Step-Dad:

As we know the cops sued Amanda’s parents, who were subsequently charged with defamation through the press for the interview they released to the Times Online. Only Edda and Curt, not the journalist, not the editor-in-chief, as it must be.

So we have to assume that they entered the Times unannounced to anyone, wrote and published the article themselves, and signed it with the pseudonym of John Follain. It must be like this, otherwise people understand that when a medium criticizes the cops (as Telenorba did), he gets prosecuted. When it doesn’t criticize, he’s not prosecuted, even if he hosts a libel (a presumed libel).

Not only the public, but even the CSM (the disciplinary committee) and the court of Florence may understand it this way. And the Perugia case, as we know, it’s already on their table. They may spot out new clues of abuse of office and omission of office. Especially if prompted by American and Italian authorities, who, after the strange lawsuit, are actually starting to follow the case for real.

I can tell you why they don't charge Rupert Murdoch's Times, (of London) because that would be like just begging for a media anal exam of the highest order. Italian newspapers are fair game it appears, even TV stations, but asking for a beating from at least two of the highest circulation papers in Britain, one of the most popular news outlets in the United States and maybe the NY Post as well, I can't recall if that is (was?) his would be a nightmarish media move.

I did find that last line intriguing, I'm going to have to read the comments later and see if he expanded upon that, someone ought to be noticing this.

Knowing that there was no conspiracy with Guede means that everything else that the government did was either a massive fabrication or mistakes of massive proportion.

Question: If Guede killed MK and there was no conspiracy or collusion with AK or RS, then wasn't the rest of the 'evidence' a fabrication and the rest of the theory a libel? :confused:

They didn't eliminate the possibility of collusion with Raffaele and Amanda, they just didn't insist on it. As for the 'evidence,' it is what it is; spots on the floor, a girls DNA in her own bathroom and other junk used as a pretense of their guilt. It's 'evidence' only of how weak the prosecution case is, but not fabricated, otherwise it would actually make sense as part of a coherent whole. ;)

My guess on the 'murder knife' is contamination, and that bra clasp....let's just say it ought to get tossed into the Tiber too or Italy will have established the lowest standards for the integrity of evidence in the EU. I mean, how much lower can you go than that?
 
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This one makes it more clear what they are talking about:



http://translate.googleusercontent....le.com&usg=ALkJrhiCtOvrATyFVolECN0Ce6-Rteh4ug

It is clear the Supreme Court is giving the appeal court freedom to find for innocence in the case against Raffaele.

To those that thought the court's confirmation of Guede's guilt also assumed that Sollecito and Knox were involved, this represents a major setback.

I agree with christianahannah's and CoulsdonUK's comments. I think the Supreme Court is not commenting on either Amanda or Raffaele simply because that is not the case before them. The evidence against them was not presented during Rudy's trial but their own and the SC has no basis to comment other than agree Rudy did not act alone. They cannot confirm who the others were if they did not hear the evidence for and against Amanda and raffaele. At this stage is not the opinion given on facts of law only, not a review of evidence?
 
I agree with christianahannah's and CoulsdonUK's comments. I think the Supreme Court is not commenting on either Amanda or Raffaele simply because that is not the case before them. The evidence against them was not presented during Rudy's trial but their own and the SC has no basis to comment other than agree Rudy did not act alone. They cannot confirm who the others were if they did not hear the evidence for and against Amanda and Raffaele. At this stage is not the opinion given on facts of law only, not a review of evidence?

Good point! I'd forgotten about that. However I can't help but still wonder what Maresca and Mignini were getting at regarding the 'respect' angle. It has to mean something right? They both said it, they thought it was an important point, but I've asked about it for two months now and no one has come up with a definitive answer.

It could mean they're so desperate at this stage they'll say anything that they could imagine as possibly positive. That's a nice dream for some of us to have. :)
 
There were no cell phone calls between Guede and Amanda or Raffaele as far as I know.

Absence of evidence is hard to prove. Is the above statement correct?
 
There were no cell phone calls between Guede and Amanda or Raffaele as far as I know.

Absence of evidence is hard to prove. Is the above statement correct?

Yes, the only contact proven between Amanda and Guede was an introduction at a party that at some time a spinello was smoked, and Amanda testified she thought she might have seen Rudy at Le Chic once. Raffaele had no known contacts with Rudy.

Thankfully the 'absence of evidence' burden is on the prosecution, after all one can't 'prove' a negative.
 
did he even have a phone?

There were no cell phone calls between Guede and Amanda or Raffaele as far as I know.

Absence of evidence is hard to prove. Is the above statement correct?

To the best of my knowledge Guede did not have a cell phone.
 
To the best of my knowledge Guede did not have a cell phone.

This is the weakest conspiracy theory I've ever heard.

The prosecution ignored the absence of conspiring in the conspiracy. They ignored the absence of a motive. They ignored the lack of the proper murder weapon. They ignored the alibi. They ignored the cell phone pings. They ignored the lack of prints in the murder room. They ignored the lack of bloody footprints by Amanda. They ignored the lack of bloody footprints by Raffaele. They ignored the absence of blood stained clothes. They ignored the ToD. They ignored what the gist of what Amanda and Raffaele said during their interrogations. They ignored what Guede said about Amanda not being there.

The prosecution is ignorant of this crime.

No amount of digging by us has uncovered anything to further implicate Amanda and Raffaele. If they were guilty, their case wouldn't have withstood so much scrutiny.
 
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To the best of my knowledge Guede did not have a cell phone.

Guede not having a phone didn't stop the Perugia authorities from falsely claiming that Amanda called Rudy around the time the body was discovered.

Quoting The Independent.
Investigators say Mr Guede left Perugia on the morning after the murder and went to Milan, where he was stopped by police but not detained. Detectives locked on to his mobile phone signal in Milan as recently as this weekend, but it then went dead. Amanda Knox made at least two calls to his number, one of them at 11am on 2 November, around the time police discovered Kercher's body.
 
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Guede not having a phone didn't stop the Perugia authorities from falsely claiming that Amanda called Rudy around the time the body was discovered.

Quoting The Independent.

Originally Posted by halides1
To the best of my knowledge Guede did not have a cell phone.
Guede not having a phone didn't stop the Perugia authorities from falsely claiming that Amanda called Rudy around the time the body was discovered.

Quoting The Independent.

Investigators say Mr Guede left Perugia on the morning after the murder and went to Milan, where he was stopped by police but not detained. Detectives locked on to his mobile phone signal in Milan as recently as this weekend, but it then went dead. Amanda Knox made at least two calls to his number, one of them at 11am on 2 November, around the time police discovered Kercher's body.

The normal way is the look at the phone company records. I have not heard of someone who "locked on to his mobile phone signal" before.

I also heard that the police intercepted a call from him in which he said that "Amanda wasn't there".

Why would he steal a cell phone if he had one?

Anybody know where to find the record of the calls?

The police and prosecution would have jumped on the record of any calls from Guede to the other suspects. That would have been important evidence.

On the other hand, one can buy a cell phone for about $15 at Wal Mart. No big deal.
 
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Originally Posted by halides1
To the best of my knowledge Guede did not have a cell phone.
Guede not having a phone didn't stop the Perugia authorities from falsely claiming that Amanda called Rudy around the time the body was discovered.

The normal way is the look at the phone company records. I have not heard of someone who "locked on to his mobile phone signal" before.

I also heard that the police intercepted a call from him in which he said that "Amanda wasn't there".

Why would he steal a cell phone if he had one?

Anybody know where to find the record of the calls?

The police and prosecution would have jumped on the record of any calls from Guede to the other suspects. That would have been important evidence.

We have Amanda's phone records for that time. The alleged call isn't shown:


On the other hand, one can buy a cell phone for about $15 at Wal Mart. No big deal.

Europe doesn't allow cell phones to be locked to only one carrier. This makes the phones themselves somewhat more expensive. Prepay phones also seem to be more common. Steal the phone and you steal the minutes the last user already paid for.

Rudy had a stolen cell phone when he was picked up by the Milan police on Oct. 27, 2007. A phone stolen in a second floor Perugia burglary where entry was gained by breaking a window. :boggled:
 
Guede not having a phone didn't stop the Perugia authorities from falsely claiming that Amanda called Rudy around the time the body was discovered.

Quoting The Independent.
Hi Kestrel,
Thanks for that link, it is a story that I had never read about.
As you next post showed, Amanda Knox did not call Rudy Guede at 11:00am.

There are some other interesting facts reported in this article though. Some are definately incorrect, but I wonder about this:
"Police were able to match his fingerprints and DNA at the crime scene to those from an incident when Mr Guede was stabbed in a fight over drugs."

Rudy Guede was stabbed in a fight at some point before Miss Kercher's death?

CoulsdonUK recently asked something to the effect of "why do people discuss Rudy Guede".
I do, simply because I wish to try and learn the truth about what had happened to Meredith Kercher and there is no doubt whatsoever that Rudy Guede was inside Meredith's bedroom at some point the night she was brutally stabbed to her death.

So with this in mind, does anyone have any information about Rudy getting stabbed before?

If this is so, I can see why he too would have armed himself with a knife afterwards, as he was seen to do when he was caught burglarizing the nursery school in Milan just days before Meredith Kercher was killed, with a knife...
 
I agree with christianahannah's and CoulsdonUK's comments. I think the Supreme Court is not commenting on either Amanda or Raffaele simply because that is not the case before them. The evidence against them was not presented during Rudy's trial but their own and the SC has no basis to comment other than agree Rudy did not act alone. They cannot confirm who the others were if they did not hear the evidence for and against Amanda and raffaele. At this stage is not the opinion given on facts of law only, not a review of evidence?

I remember when Rudy's case was reviewed by the Supreme Court how so many on the side of guilt claimed it to be a referendum on Raffaele's guilt. Now that the actual opinion has been released, the early reports show it as the supreme court telling the appeal court, "Look, if you find them innocent, you have our blessing."

In my opinion it is significant and as I said earlier, a major setback for the prosecution in the appeal. The appeals court no longer needs to worry about contradicting the supreme Court. As Christiana said, the Appeal court now has the option of rendering a fair judgment.
 
Hi all,
Just passing this along.
It seems like Mignini's favorite hobo, Antonio Curatolo, -(who testified against Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox in their trial),
has been sentenced to 1 1/2 years for, no, not lying in court, but dealing drugs. Wasn't this heroin?

http://www.lanazione.it/umbria/cronaca/2011/02/25/465167-anno_mesi.shtml
and
http://www.umbriajournal.com/mediac...ntonio-curatolo-clochard-testimone-in-ca.html

At least he will stay warmer at night...

It would be lovely to see Mignini spend his 16 months in jail as Curatolo's cellmate. :D
 
We have Amanda's phone records for that time. The alleged call isn't shown:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_218314cb8b2afc8084.gif[/qimg]

Europe doesn't allow cell phones to be locked to only one carrier. This makes the phones themselves somewhat more expensive. Prepay phones also seem to be more common. Steal the phone and you steal the minutes the last user already paid for.

Rudy had a stolen cell phone when he was picked up by the Milan police on Oct. 27, 2007. A phone stolen in a second floor Perugia burglary where entry was gained by breaking a window. :boggled:

Thanks Kestrel, that's good stuff.

There's absence of evidence of any conspiring between Amanda and Guede. Yet a conspiracy is the cornerstone of the prosecution's case!

Amanda and Raffaele may be the only Perugians that should be out of jail.
 
Thanks Kestrel, that's good stuff.

There's absence of evidence of any conspiring between Amanda and Guede. Yet a conspiracy is the cornerstone of the prosecution's case!

Amanda and Raffaele may be the only Perugians that should be out of jail.

Mignini's behavior during the Narducci investigation showed that he favors conspiracies over more conventional explanations. Is there something in the Italian culture that makes a serial killer less believable than a Satanic cult operating out of a Masonic lodge under the protection of the Italian Secret Service?
 
Hi all,
Just passing this along.
It seems like Mignini's favorite hobo, Antonio Curatolo, -(who testified against Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox in their trial),
has been sentenced to 1 1/2 years for, no, not lying in court, but dealing drugs. Wasn't this heroin?

http://www.lanazione.it/umbria/cronaca/2011/02/25/465167-anno_mesi.shtml
and
http://www.umbriajournal.com/mediac...ntonio-curatolo-clochard-testimone-in-ca.html

At least he will stay warmer at night...

Was his case for dealing in heroin not postponed until November
 
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