• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

The Massei/Mignini Conspiracy Theory

One of the most shocking aspects of the this case in my view is the leaking of information to the press by the police.
I'm from the UK where there are strict rules about what the media can report in the time from the arrest of a suspect to the trial. (There's been a furore recently over media reporting in the Jo Yeates case in my city, Bristol, and the police's attitude has become extremely cautious).

In the case against both RS and AK (although especially AK) the police have seemed more interested in being heroes, closing the case, coming accross as competent than actually being heroes and being competent by ensuring justice is served. (A curse of modern society- the need to appear competent as opposed to actually being competent?) They contributed to a trial by media and the consequence was that the jury had made up their minds by the time they stepped foot in the court, based on 'evidence' that turned out not to be evidence at all, and could never be introduced in court.
Anyone care to calculate what percentage of the 'evidence' leaked by the police was actually presented in court? I'm going to give it a try (I'll report back when I can).

I'll throw the question out there- what percentage would it have to be for it to become obvious that the police were engaged in a deliberate smear campaign (releasing leaks referring to 'evidence' they knew could never be presented in court)? What percentage would it have to be for it to be obvious that the police were incompetent (releasing leaks referring to 'evidence' they had no clue whether it would stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever)?

I love this piece right here, showing all the lies they told:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,310637,00.html

Let's count them, just from this piece:

1.
"Police in the Italian city of Perugia said that the image was "clear cut," and flatly contradicted Knox's latest version of events"

Clear cut!? About twenty pages back on the main thread someone, I think Chris C, posted it most recently, it's about as 'clear cut' as your average picture of a 'ghost.' It's also Meredith.

2.
"Knox has changed her version of events at least three times. Over the weekend, she told her mother, Edda Mellas, who visited her in prison, that she had told the truth when first questioned by police, telling them that she had been at Sollecito's flat all night."

She only 'changed' it once, after being told they had 'hard evidence' of her at the scene and that Raffaele had said she went out that night, after they told him they had 'hard evidence' of her at the scene. That's after hours of intense interrogation for poor Amanda. That 'clear cut' CCTV video would be the 'hard evidence.' So even if they count 'changing' it and 'changing' it back that's only two times.

3.
"Police said that Knox's room at the cottage must have been "thoroughly cleaned" after the crime, as no traces of her fingerprints had been found in the room. She had occupied the room since the beginning of September."

No, bungling fools, just because you can't find a proper print, doesn't mean you get to tell the world she must have 'thoroughly cleaned' her room so she looks suspicious.

4.
"A report issued by Judge Claudia Matteini alleges that Kercher was sexually abused by Knox, Sollecito and Lumumba before being stabbed in the throat."

Nope, absolutely no evidence of anyone but Rudy at the scene, never any of sexual assault by any of these three. Just made up out of whole cloth, and at this point they have the forensics, which is why they're looking for the 'North African' man, Rudy Guede.

You've got to love how they really didn't want to accept an alibi for Patrick. They drilled that professor for seven hours because they wanted so badly to break that alibi. His lawyers are lining up witnesses to his alibi and they have the receipts from the bar, and they're still playing with the time of death ten days after the murder! Like they didn't already know, but then again they had to extend it two hours after it probably happened, and one hour after it could have possibly happened to account for the smack-dealing bums rambling testimony on the stand.

It would take them more than a week more to let Patrick go, and then they'd blame Amanda for not 'telling' them sooner, when she gave them the note the night she was arrested. Like they were going to release anyone on her word at that point anyway. :rolleyes:

Let's see, what else is there:

5. The 'house of horrors' picture with the chemically treated bathroom that made it look like Amanda had said she took a shower in a blood soaked bathroom and never noticed.

6. Lying to her about testing positive for HIV so they could get her sexual history and then broadcast it to the world when it 'leaked' to the press.

7. The whole 'caught with a mop' outside the house by the postal police.

What else was there?
 
What else was there?

The police lies in the early stage after the arrests had very specific purpose, which was to secure the detention and present the case as valid. If I'm not mistaken there were several decisions to make by various courts as whether to proceed with the case and detention - one in Nov 2007, one in March 2008.

The more important lies that police initially gave to the court were:

Amanda's shoeprint in blood in the murder room - later shown to be one of multitude of Guede's shoeprints.

Raffaele's shoeprint in blood in the murder room - later shown, to the police embarassement to be another of many Guede's bloody shoeprints.

her sweatshirt was missing, presumably disposed because of blood - later found in plain view in her room in the cottage, which the police searched multiple times. Of course no blood on it.

The Harry Potter book found at the cottage while Amanda claimed she read it with Raffaele at his place, presumably undermining her alibi - it emerged she was not lying and the police knew there was a Harry Potter book at Raffaele's place.

The wiretapped Amanda's conversation with her mother in which she said she was at Raffaele was quoted out of context and presented as an admission that she was at the murder scene.​

Some more lies seeded to the media in 2007:
The purchase of two bottles of bleach after the murder - never happened.

That Amanda had phone calls with Guede before and after the murder - in fact she never made any phone call, text message or internet contact with him.

Amanda Knox was seen at a laundromat washing clothes and a pair of shoes with an african man - complete fabrication.
 
Last edited:
Hi Quadringita! :)

I don't believe that this is even a remotely accurate definition of that law.

Indeed, that was poorly written. Alleging police misconduct in court is calunnia, but calunnia is not limited to alleging police misconduct in court.
"Calunnia" does not seem to have an exact analogue in English common law. My understanding is that it involves someone knowingly making false accusations that someone else is guilty of having committed a crime.

Or producing false evidence, in both cases while knowing that the person was innocent. What I have never been able to figure out is how they could prove that for her upcoming calunnia trial.

In common law countries this would fall under the umbrella of "defamation of character" (e.g. slander , libel, etc.). The Italian system seems to make a qualitative distinction between slurs of a moral or ethical nature and ones which make accusations of criminal transgressions.

The other distinction is that it must be communicated to an authority. It's not just the nature of the speech, but that it could imperil the 'administration of justice.'

There are some elements of 'bearing false witness' to authorities which would overlap into what we would interpret as lying to the police that might incur other, criminal penalties under our system, but the idea of slander is a civil violation to us, requiring a legal protest by the injured party, and the calunnia law in Italy is a different beast. It is a criminal act of slander. It cannot be ignored by law enforcement any more than they could stand around and watch a carjacking.

I don't think it's actually slander at all, it just gets translated as such as there's nothing really remotely similar to it in English. If you add it all up, it seems it amounts to jerking around the cops or the courts by providing false evidence or accusations against someone you know is innocent that results in some sort of legal proceeding.

In this particular instance, yes, it did happen that police were the ones the calunnia was alleged to have been committed against, and it did happen that the place it occurred was in a courtroom, but neither of those things are necessary conditions. Calunnia could be committed against anyone, police or civilian, and it could happen anywhere.

There's two actual definitions of calunnia, the legal and the common, and as Machiavelli once put it to me:

Machiavelli said:
The legal term must not be confused with the common Italian term calunnia, which also exsist and can be used exstensively, or metaphorically, outside from criminal contexts just to indicate any "false accusation" or "false report" in general.

Choosing a courtroom to do it in is a remarkably poor decision, rather like trying to pull off a mugging in a precinct office full of armed cops.


Thus the legal calunnia can only be done in the presence of authorities, and must result in some sort of legal proceeding.
 
Last edited:
The police lies in the early stage after the arrests had very specific purpose, which was to secure the detention and present the case as valid. If I'm not mistaken there were several decisions to make by various courts as whether to proceed with the case and detention - one in Nov 2007, one in March 2008.

The more important lies that police initially gave to the court were:

Amanda's shoeprint in blood in the murder room - later shown to be one of multitude of Guede's shoeprints.

Raffaele's shoeprint in blood in the murder room - later shown, to the police embarassement to be another of many Guede's bloody shoeprints.

her sweatshirt was missing, presumably disposed because of blood - later found in plain view in her room in the cottage, which the police searched multiple times. Of course no blood on it.

The Harry Potter book found at the cottage while Amanda claimed she read it with Raffaele at his place, presumably undermining her alibi - it emerged she was not lying and the police knew there was a Harry Potter book at Raffaele's place.

The wiretapped Amanda's conversation with her mother in which she said she was at Raffaele was quoted out of context and presented as an admission that she was at the murder scene.​

Some more lies seeded to the media in 2007:
The purchase of two bottles of bleach after the murder - never happened.

That Amanda had phone calls with Guede before and after the murder - in fact she never made any phone call, text message or internet contact with him.

Amanda Knox was seen at a laundromat washing clothes and a pair of shoes with an african man - complete fabrication.

Hi Katody! :)

How could I forget the famed 'Bleach Receipt!' The one that brought forth a year or so later the celebrity-seeking twit, whose name I can recall this time but will probably misspell, Quintavalle. He comes forward after almost a year of prodding by a journalist, and claims he saw Amanda the day after the murder skulking around his bleach.

Except, of course, by this time the whole 'bleach receipt' strategy has been rendered impossible by forensics revealing no possibility of a bleach clean-up, and of course he's refuted by the records of the police officer who interviewed him shortly after the murder where he said no such thing, and the two who were with him at the time.

With Curatolo in the process of being discredited by the bus testimony, and the old lady by the fact they won't be able to get away with a scientifically impossible time of death again, the thrice refuted twit is their only witness, and all he said he saw was Amanda lurking about his store the next morning!

How do you put together a case with no real evidence and no witnesses? I'm starting to think those that were saying without the DNA evidence and the smack-dealing bum Hellmann might just dismiss the whole thing. What kind of case could they make?
 
Oh **** another bloody Knox thread. :covereyes

Sorry, but I found elsewhere that so much ended up in a place called 'Abandon All Hope'--which is rather an ominous title if you think on it! Did you know you can't respond to posts there? Very difficult to have a conversation that way!
:D
 
In just a general sense, either way there was a 'conspiracy' by definition in this case. Either three people who barely knew each other conspired to kill a girl for unknown or bizarre reasons, or police and prosecutor colluded to convict two innocent people along with the one who left his DNA everywhere at the scene and has since been convicted in finality by the Italian Supreme Court as he opted for a 'fast track trial.'
Just as a meta-remark: in fact you're now arguing that any discussion of the AK case would be CT, whichever way the truth lies. I don't think that's your intention, as you've argued before against that - and I don't agree, for both sides.

For the case that Knox and Sollecito are guilty, I find it a stretch to call it a conspiracy. This is of course semantics, but basically, if I understand correctly, the prosecution's scenario is that Guede, Knox and Sollecito colluded on that specific night in attacking Kercher under the influence of narcotics. To me, "conspiracy" would involve some modicum of planning and aforethought with a clear mind, neither of which are present. Feel free to disagree on the meaning of "conspiracy" though. :)

For the case they're not guilty, I think it's inappropriate to call it a conspiracy. The prosecution and police have as their job to find the perpetrator, and once they are convinced they have a credible case, they present that to the court. It is not expected of individual police officers to air dissenting opinions to the public. Sometimes the police focuses in on one suspect too early and devotes all its efforts in trying to prove that case ("tunnel vision" - is that also a term in English for this phenomenon?), and even then I wouldn't label it a conspiracy. Even in such cases, it is very rare for policemen to speak out against their colleagues (the Enschede fireworks disaster is a case that comes to mind where this did happen). I'd reserve the term conspiracy for those cases where deliberately certain avenues of investigation are not pursued for ulterior motives - e.g., not going after the Iranian-backed terrorists ;) - or deliberately someone is railroaded against whom there was strong exculpatory evidence.

I don't think you can make that case. There is physical evidence that puts Knox and Sollecito at the crime scene - you can argue about the quality of that - there is no physical evidence that puts them elsewhere and they have no alibis but each other. Still entertaining the "if they're not guilty" case, at most this is a run-of-the-mill miscarriage of justice.
 
On the other hand, the case does not have the typical hallmarks of a miscarriage of justice. It's also worth saying, the case is not half way through, we can't say Italian justice has failed, because it has not yet finished.

Well everyone wants a response to 10. And maybe CT is a better place for it.

Well first off, the fact that over 3 years into it the trial hasn't yet "finished" is a failure. Its a failure that the economist and the government have been blasting the Italian system for. The fact that the prosecution's case is so weak that the judges had to make wild assumptions to make the facts fit the case, is a sign it failed. The standard is supposed to be beyond a reasonable doubt. Tons of people have reasonable doubt. They have reproducible evidence that the prosecutions case is flawed.

For example what happens when you throw a 9 lb rock a shutter is eminently reproducible. The amount of force required to beat gravity exceeds the strength of the shutter by a substantial margin so when they come in contact,
the shutter breaks. These doubts exist, they were never addressed and as a result the case lacks public support.

That is a the very definition of a failure of justice. Now the Italian system does have good corrective mechanisms with automatic appeals. I don't think those should exist as they encourage the very abuses we've seen from the Massei court "well this can get fixed on appeal".

If Mignini and the prosecution are conspiracy theorists, then aren't all prosecutors conspiracy theorists? It is their job to present a picture of the assembled evidence which demonstrates that the accused are guilty. So calling prosecutors conspiracy theorists is just a trivial observation.

Not at all. Mignini is a believer in a large scale Satanic secret society operating within Italy with ties into law enforcement and the culture at large.

As for why people think the innocentisti are conspiracy theorists, it's because the pretty much said so. We could do with a decent definition of CT, but the innocentisti show the hallmarks. In order to explain away certain pieces of evidence, more and more contrived theories are put forward to explain them. "Obvious" mistakes by prosecuting officials can only be explained by suggesting that the official was lying or incompetent. If incompetent, then it has to be suggested that other officials are turning a blind eye. Thus we have the innocentisti suggest a very long of people involved in the Knox prosecution, who have either lied, been incompetent or who are complicit in a cover up.

You are absolutely right here about the innocentisti case. And I've used this argument before. Downstairs I have a GE washing machine. Do you have any idea how many people had to cooperate on building and assembling all those parts, shipping that machine out, writing the manual. GE is involved in an enormous conspiracy to build washing machines.

And that's why I think a distinction needs to be made between conspiracy and structural analysis. The innocentisti have been pointing out structural problems in Italian law enforcement which apply broadly and in this specific case led to a miscarriage of justice. And further they have provided upwards of 100 pieces of evidence supporting that, for example video footage of people placing items into position for their "discovery" photograph.

That is wholly different then a widespread conspiracy of Italian officials to engage in activities not sanctioned or encouraged by their structures.

As an aside contrast this with the prosecution's conspiracy that 3 people who really don't know each other very well decide to engage in an activity that will require each of them to forevermore put their lives in one another's hands for no particularly good reason.

A case in point is the "dirty knife". From pictures on the internet, innocentisti conclude that the kitchen knife taken from Sollecitos kitchen is very dirty. However, police and forensics said the knife was "extremely clean". Rather than question whether they might be mistaken in looking at photo, the innocentisti claim that those people were lying.

Actually that's verifiably false. You can see the discussion right here on JREF and multiple innocentisti spend days trying to determine whether they might be mistaken and raising that very point over and over and over.

They then need to explain why the judge or the defence didn't call them on it. So the judge and defence must be in on it too. But.... the knife is not dirty. The "dirt" in the photo is just a reflection, because the knife is actually very clean, and very shiny.

Well if it is very clean and very shinny how did Meredith's DNA survive the cleaning? For your theory to work, it has to be sorta cleaned but not very clean certainly not enough to destroy trace; yet still shiny enough to reflect light in just the right way .... And its not the only knife because it definitely doesn't match the bloody knife print nor some of the stab wounds. And its the wrong length. And while they were doing this complex clean up, they didn't bother to just throw the damn knife away....

And the innocentisti are the ones with the tortured explanations?
 
The conspiracy

Now in terms of the innocentisti lets pick an example. On my blog the "conspiracy" really only involves 3 steps:

  1. A prosecutor that plays over the line
  2. A support structure around that prosecutor that doesn't prevent this
  3. A motivated police force looking at their case blowing up.

Those are the only elements you need.

Let me start with 3. Little Miss Cartwheels, most certainly did not understand how much danger she was in. On the night of her arrest, her parents were in flight on their way and very likely to arrive the next morning, understand how much danger she was in and she would be on a train to those German relatives and then a plane to Seattle in hours if they didn't arrest.

Given that at the night of the 5th they believed Amanda Knox was covering evidence I don't think it is at all unreasonable that they would act over the line to get the arrest even without enough evidence. And lets be clear, there were rumors starting to spread about a serial killer in the University for Foreigners because of other murders which were similar.

Can you buy that? Because if on the night of November 5th 2007 we can agree the police were looking down the barrel of a disaster if they didn't make an arrest most other stuff shakes out.
 
Just as a meta-remark: in fact you're now arguing that any discussion of the AK case would be CT, whichever way the truth lies. I don't think that's your intention, as you've argued before against that - and I don't agree, for both sides.

For the case that Knox and Sollecito are guilty, I find it a stretch to call it a conspiracy. This is of course semantics, but basically, if I understand correctly, the prosecution's scenario is that Guede, Knox and Sollecito colluded on that specific night in attacking Kercher under the influence of narcotics. To me, "conspiracy" would involve some modicum of planning and aforethought with a clear mind, neither of which are present. Feel free to disagree on the meaning of "conspiracy" though. :)

I hate semantic games personally. Thus someone insists I call it a 'conspiracy,' I'll do so, as three people coming together to commit a crime is basically the definition, though as you note generally indicates premeditation. However it is a case of three people who barely knew each other coming together to rape and murder someone for no discernible reason or some utterly bizarre ones.

As for the cops, bungling and covering it up corruptly suffices for me, with a little scapegoating of Amanda thrown in for flavor.

As for the prosecution theory, they kinda had trouble making up their mind, they couldn't get anything accepted by the Italian Supreme Court which would have lowered their burden of proof, not that it mattered as there was so much 'reasonable doubt' anyway the new Judge Hellman said the only thing the Massei Report really established is that Meredith Kercher died. :P

They had ideas for a satanic ritual murder, remember the day of death was All Saint's Day, and Mignini is a devout Catholic and likes his satanic conspiracies if you read those links. He lost that battle but tried to reintroduce it later only to be dissuaded by his co-prosecutor Comodi. They also tried 'choosing evil' due to getting stoned and reading Raffaele's manga comic books and deciding to go kill someone, the Supreme Court wasn't impressed. Frankly it's all theory anyway, anything anyone can come up with is just as good as what they decided on.

For the case they're not guilty, I think it's inappropriate to call it a conspiracy. The prosecution and police have as their job to find the perpetrator, and once they are convinced they have a credible case, they present that to the court. It is not expected of individual police officers to air dissenting opinions to the public. Sometimes the police focuses in on one suspect too early and devotes all its efforts in trying to prove that case ("tunnel vision" - is that also a term in English for this phenomenon?), and even then I wouldn't label it a conspiracy. Even in such cases, it is very rare for policemen to speak out against their colleagues (the Enschede fireworks disaster is a case that comes to mind where this did happen). I'd reserve the term conspiracy for those cases where deliberately certain avenues of investigation are not pursued for ulterior motives - e.g., not going after the Iranian-backed terrorists ;) - or deliberately someone is railroaded against whom there was strong exculpatory evidence.

I was re-reading my first post on the board recently and noted I initially thought it was still possible that most mistakes by police could be explained by confirmation bias and incompetence, but you keep running into those lies and what happened to the three computers fried one after another. They also couldn't 'find' any evidence of computer activity on the last one after about 9:27 or whatever, however Raffaele's defense claims they can now show computer activity all through the possible times of murder with at most the screensaver activating for six minutes according to those logs.


I don't think you can make that case. There is physical evidence that puts Knox and Sollecito at the crime scene - you can argue about the quality of that - there is no physical evidence that puts them elsewhere and they have no alibis but each other. Still entertaining the "if they're not guilty" case, at most this is a run-of-the-mill miscarriage of justice.

Actually, there's isn't physical evidence of either at the site--until 46 days after the murder when the mindless confirmation bias error is exposed on TV and it is revealed that a six year-old can spot patterns better than they can. That's where the video linked above comes from. They rush out to the crime scene and 'find' that bra clasp--which has mysteriously migrated across the room from where it was seen in the initial videos where they must have forgot to collect it--but until then there is absolutely no evidence of either in the murder room. For a while they just 'thought' they had some, but it was all Rudy's. That knife came from Raffaele's drawer and never left it that night, I re-wrote the whole stupefying litany of why out in the main thread.

As for outside the room, they threw everything they could find of Amanda at her they could possibly pretend might have had something to do with it, but in the end it's just evidence she lived there. Her DNA in her own bathroom sink where Rudy washed up is hardly a surprise, the footprints Stefanoni lied about not testing negative for blood for so long were never compared to anyone else, and being as they point towards--not out of--Meredith's room they're probably hers. Naturally they'd find evidence Amanda lived in her own house, but that hardly makes them have anything to do with murder, but they try to sell every bit as suspiciously as possible.

However, the Massei Report contains all the classic evidences of a conspiracy theory where the rubber hits the road. It tries to take isolated things out of context without being able to combine it into a coherent whole--or provide any damned evidence any of it happened. 'Suspicious' things that aren't that 'suspicious' upon reflection, and just ludicrous reasoning to try to paper over the fact there's nothing backing it up. Mignini had to extend the time of death an hour past the last scientifically possible time of death in his closing statement because of Curatolo's rambling on the stand, reading how Massei handwaves that away with out of context quotes is entertaining.

His favorite phrase, 'It is possible, indeed probable' and then going on to say something stupid like 'they decided to wait until morning to clean up because it would be easier (after the blood dried!) and there was no chance of the body being discovered.' Or his pretending Amanda was carrying basically a butcher's knife in her handbag for days as 'protection' when Raffaele had a little knife collection and if she really wanted a knife for 'protection' she wouldn't take one that would cut up her bag or fingers reaching into it, (for which there is no evidence of cuts or tears) she'd just get one from Raffaele.

Also the whole thing starts with Mignini, who comes up with the idea three people raped and murdered poor Meredith with absolutely nothing to support it outside those few items that certainly didn't implicate Amanda as being actually involved in the crime anyway--she was supposedly cowering in the kitchen with her ears covered when she 'vaguely' and 'confusedly' has her 'repressed memories' of Patrick killing Meredith.

Note that when they get done putting her through the ringer and arrest Patrick, Raffaele and Amanda they'll get the forensics back later, and find nothing but evidence of Rudy at the site. They have a cat burglar who recently was caught breaking into a second story window who leaves relative gobs of evidence at the scene and flees to Germany, but they arrested three people who left utterly nothing and who stayed and called police.
 
I think one of the most interesting things is they didn't initially try to frame anyone. Although it was just coincidence, confirmation bias and misunderstandings, at one point it probably did look like Amanda and Raffaele were probably guilty. However as they started to find nothing but evidence of Rudy at the scene, some of the 'evidence gathering' and what happened to potentially exculpatory evidence starts to get a little ripe...

And yet for no reason whatsoever they continuted with the prosecution because it would benefit them how?

What would have happened if they released AK and RS after getting RG back from Germany? It's not uncommon for the police to arrest someone then later release them. No biggie, no huge repercussions. Amanda would have an interesting story to tell when she got back home, maybe a few Euros from suing the police (maybe not). The police still get to be heros, as they have solved the case as the guilty man is caught.

Sorry, but you've got nothing but a conspiracy theory if you believe there is zero evidence against these two. And not just a conspiracy involving the authorities in Perugia, this conspiracy extends to Rome and Milan (if you believe Waterbury's "Rudy as police informant" stuff).
 
Also the whole thing starts with Mignini, who comes up with the idea three people raped and murdered poor Meredith with absolutely nothing to support it outside those few items that certainly didn't implicate Amanda...

And he comes up with this idea rather quickly, within the first few days after the murder. Next he is able to get the hundreds of people that worked on the investigation and prosecution of this case to go along with his error without having the slightest scruple of morality about breaking the law, risking their jobs or betraying a fellow Italian.

This is where I would usually say the conspiracy theory sub-forum is that-a-way ---> but hey, we're already here!
 
And yet for no reason whatsoever they continuted with the prosecution because it would benefit them how?

What would have happened if they released AK and RS after getting RG back from Germany?
It's not uncommon for the police to arrest someone then later release them. No biggie, no huge repercussions. Amanda would have an interesting story to tell when she got back home, maybe a few Euros from suing the police (maybe not). The police still get to be heros, as they have solved the case as the guilty man is caught.

That's what should have happened, but by then the fantasy they'd help sell had taken off already, the 'Foxy Knoxy' mythology was being constructed, her picture was tacked up on the wall with some of Italy's most notorious convicted criminals. I guess it would have been too terribly embarrassing to have to admit their fantastic crime of the century was really just a break-in gone bad. At the time they still thought they had some real evidence, they wouldn't find out about the mistake with Raffaele's shoeprint for three weeks. The Supreme Court hadn't thrown out the 'confessions,' and they'd gotten their first theory past the Court of Freedom, they just substituted Rudy for Patrick.


Sorry, but you've got nothing but a conspiracy theory if you believe there is zero evidence against these two. And not just a conspiracy involving the authorities in Perugia, this conspiracy extends to Rome and Milan (if you believe Waterbury's "Rudy as police informant" stuff).

If there was actual evidence of murder against these two it would have shown up already. It's how they got convicted without any evidence of that nature that makes this remarkable. The police in Perugia said they saw a ghost, three people who barely knew each other (despite their intimacies Raffaele and Amanda had only known each other six days) conspire to rape and murder a girl for bizarre reasons or none at all; they provided scant and contrived evidence of this, and ludicrous reasoning.

A big part of the story here is how they got people to believe it.
 
Hi Alt! :)


And he comes up with this idea rather quickly, within the first few days after the murder. Next he is able to get the hundreds of people that worked on the investigation and prosecution of this case to go along with his error without having the slightest scruple of morality about breaking the law, risking their jobs or betraying a fellow Italian.

This is where I would usually say the conspiracy theory sub-forum is that-a-way ---> but hey, we're already here!

Where Mignini comes in is turning that gibberish 'confession' of her cowering in the kitchen while Patrick rapes and murders Meredith, a far more plausible thing to have happened, into her actively holding Meredith down and eventually slashing away at her with absolutely no evidence to support this--he just kinda makes it up. So the police made the initial mistake, but it is then compounded by the mind of Mignini who takes it to places unknown.

Thus eventually it looks like everyone is helping trying to prove this ridiculous theory true, because that's their job and now they're 'all-in.' A steady dose of confirmation bias keeps them thinking they still have evidence for Mignini's nutty theories down to the very end, including the trial. If those actually were bloody footprints that would be a damning indication Amanda was somehow involved, but the only one who knew they'd tested negative for blood until the end was Stefanoni.

A tragedy of errors Alt, that's what a lot of this was. There wasn't all that much slight of hand needed, just the misdirection of 'Foxy Knoxy' and throwing the whole rest of the house she lived in as 'evidence' of murder at them. They did have to do a little lying on the stand though...
 
I guess it would have been too terribly embarrassing to have to admit their fantastic crime of the century was really just a break-in gone bad.

Yes, you guess. There is no evidence that the police were embarrassed. They took their lumps when they were forced to release Patrick, their world didn't come to an end.

This is far from the crime of the century, in Italy or anywhere.

If there was actual evidence of murder against these two it would have shown up already.

It did....have you forgotten they were convicted of murder?
 
So the police made the initial mistake, but it is then compounded by the mind of Mignini who takes it to places unknown.

Thus eventually it looks like everyone is helping trying to prove this ridiculous theory true, because that's their job and now they're 'all-in.' A steady dose of confirmation bias keeps them thinking they still have evidence for Mignini's nutty theories down to the very end, including the trial.

Change a few words around and this sounds very much like a 9/11 troofer conspiracy claim. Just replace Mignini with Bush. The all-powerful mastermind has his evil minions, who have fanatical loyalty and obedience to their immediate chain of command, commit all sorts of wrong-doings.

In your thinking everyone is corrupt, a fool or a tool of the government. There is absolutely zero honesty, professionalism or integrity.

Gosh, even the 9/11 nuts at least have voiced a motivation as to why the government would want to deliberately destroy the WTC and Pentagon. Your conspiracy theory presents no possible good outcome for all these badies.
 
Change a few words around and this sounds very much like a 9/11 troofer conspiracy claim. Just replace Mignini with Bush. The all-powerful mastermind has his evil minions, who have fanatical loyalty and obedience to their immediate chain of command, commit all sorts of wrong-doings.

Yes, that is why we are discussing it on the Conspiracy Theories sub-forum.


In your thinking everyone is corrupt, a fool or a tool of the government. There is absolutely zero honesty, professionalism or integrity.

Straw man alert! (Mischaracterization, oversimplification and exaggeration of your opponent's position.)


Gosh, even the 9/11 nuts at least have voiced a motivation as to why the government would want to deliberately destroy the WTC and Pentagon. Your conspiracy theory presents no possible good outcome for all these badies.

Power, fame, ego gratification, job security = good outcomes.
 
Change a few words around and this sounds very much like a 9/11 troofer conspiracy claim. Just replace Mignini with Bush. The all-powerful mastermind has his evil minions, who have fanatical loyalty and obedience to their immediate chain of command, commit all sorts of wrong-doings.

In your thinking everyone is corrupt, a fool or a tool of the government. There is absolutely zero honesty, professionalism or integrity.

Gosh, even the 9/11 nuts at least have voiced a motivation as to why the government would want to deliberately destroy the WTC and Pentagon. Your conspiracy theory presents no possible good outcome for all these badies.

Huh, and here it looks to me like any other mundane screw-up followed by a cover-up and a little scapegoating. We don't call those 'conspiracy theories' where I come from, we call that 'The Chicago Way...'

'There's truth, there's justice....and then there's The Chicago Way.'

The 'gain' is no one ends up losing their job or facing prosecution. If they get away with it that is....
 
Yes, you guess. There is no evidence that the police were embarrassed. They took their lumps when they were forced to release Patrick, their world didn't come to an end.

This is far from the crime of the century, in Italy or anywhere.

Did you know Amanda Knox was Italy's Woman of the Year for 2009?

They got to keep their bizarre theory, they just substituted one player for another, and perversely blamed Amanda for it.


It did....have you forgotten they were convicted of murder?

I know, and without any evidence of it that passes the smell check. That's what's so unusual, especially in an environment where not leaving any would seem to be nigh impossible for what they were convicted of. That's why they go free in the end.
 

Back
Top Bottom