Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[RoseMontague]

I see this theory has now moved from the bidet to the shower. Rudy mentions blood on the upper part of his pants not the lower trouser leg. There doesn't seem to be any reason why he should lie about this point.

Maybe he didn't want them to know he was more concerned with cleaning up than Meredith dying in her room.

 

[Alt+F4]

I have access to many of the photo's and videos of the case and have never had contact with the defense. How could that be?

Do you have access to all the case files? Because that what Steve Moore says he has, not just the stuff in the public domain.

Steve Moore may have been imprecise when he spoke. But I put it to you, how could three people participate in Meredith's murder and two of then leave no bloody footprints? Where were they standing, where did they step?

How could even one person murder Meredith and not leave bloody footprints leading out of her room? When is supercop Steve Moore gonna solve that?

 

[Alt+F4]

Maybe he didn't want them to know he was more concerned with cleaning up than Meredith dying in her room.

If he was so concerned about cleaning up why did he go back into the bedroom, get more blood on his shoes and then walk out the door?

 

[RoseMontague]

If he was so concerned about cleaning up why did he go back into the bedroom, get more blood on his shoes and then walk out the door?

The shoes never left the bedroom until he put them back on. I think he was more concerned with what people could see of him when he left. I don't think anybody would be looking at the bottom of his shoes on the way home. I think he took his shoes off when he undressed to assault Meredith or took them off before going to the bathroom to clean up.

 

[RoseMontague]

Do you have access to all the case files? Because that what Steve Moore says he has, not just the stuff in the public domain.

How could even one person murder Meredith and not leave bloody footprints leading out of her room? When is supercop Steve Moore gonna solve that?

I am not a big fan of Steve Moore and don't argue from his authority. It seems you like to argue against him, however. I doubt Steve Moore has anything more than Charlie Wilkes has. I think his post on interrogation techniques was a good one. I don't have the impression that he studied the case as much as some of us had based on many of his comments.

 

[babycondor]

The shoes never left the bedroom until he put them back on. I think he was more concerned with what people could see of him when he left. I don't think anybody would be looking at the bottom of his shoes on the way home. I think he took his shoes off when he undressed to assault Meredith or took them off before going to the bathroom to clean up.

Good points.

 

[RoseMontague]

Here is a story from that dreaded paper that seems to indicate that they had a lot of information about this as early as 2 November. It almost appears as if they were allowed to see the scene themselves.

The team of 'Ert - composed of experts in relevant traces came from Rome - he spent hours in the little house: a kitchen-living room, a corridor, a bathroom and four bedrooms for four students, two foreign and two Italian. Maybe Meredith did not want to stay at home, maybe he came and met a friend. Maybe, maybe, maybe. 'S only certainty is that this girl has died in London as well, at home, her throat cut, with his shirt pulled up to leave open the breast.

http://translate.google.com/transla...a_sotto_materasso_Giallo_co_9_071103039.shtml

 

[Alt+F4]

I am not a big fan of Steve Moore and don't argue from his authority. It seems you like to argue against him, however. I doubt Steve Moore has anything more than Charlie Wilkes has. I think his post on interrogation techniques was a good one. I don't have the impression that he studied the case as much as some of us had based on many of his comments.

Even Charlie hasn't said that he has seen all the evidence in this case.

 

[Alt+F4]

The shoes never left the bedroom until he put them back on. I think he was more concerned with what people could see of him when he left. I don't think anybody would be looking at the bottom of his shoes on the way home. I think he took his shoes off when he undressed to assault Meredith or took them off before going to the bathroom to clean up.

But Rose, what you're saying makes sense and goes against Steve Moore's 25-years of FBI experience!

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

Here's 9 reasons why people think they are guilty. They are in no particular order, and there are many other reasons as well. I've left out all of the witnesses and most of the forensics. Yes, many of these are circumstantial, but would who thinks Scott Peterson is innocent? After all, almost all the evidence against him is circumstantial and he has a motive.

1. Amanda’s lamp being found in Meredith’s room.

2. Raffaele’s changing alibi:
a) Amanda and I went to a friend’s party.
b) Amanda was with me in my apartment but went out for awhile.
c) We were together the entire night, made dinner, had sex, watched a movie, went to sleep.
d) I was awake and on my computer the entire night.

3. Amanda’s phone calls on November 2:
a) In the 48 minutes between 12:07 – 12:55 she spent a total of 23 seconds trying to phone Meredith though she stated she was “panicked” as to her whereabouts.
b) Amanda was back at her apartment by 12:34. The Postal Police did not show up for another 21 minutes with Meredith’s phones. Why didn’t Amanda stand outside Meredith’s door, call her phones and listen for rings? (She knew the phones were no longer in Meredith's room.)
c) Both Amanda’s mother and Filomena told Amanda to call the police based on what she told them...she didn’t. Both knew her Italian was poor, but they told her to call the police anyway...she didn't.

4. Raffaele’s call to the police:
a) He told them that nothing was taken from Filomena’s room. He knew that because he knew there was no break in.
b) He told the police “there is a lot of blood” when everyone at the scene agreed there was very little visible blood. He knew there was a lot of blood behind the locked door.
c) why would he even mention a closed door?

5. Raffaele’s lie in his prison diary regarding the knife and pricking Meredith with it.

6. Amanda’s behavior:
a) not flushing the toilet (who does not flush a toilet when they see feces in it?)
b) not looking in the murder room

7. bra clasp – it is Rafaelle’s DNA is on it.

8. evidence of a cleanup – FBI guy Steve Moore (who says he has seen all of the evidence) said no one could have left that room without blood on the bottom of their shoes.

9. Amanda knowing that Meredith's throat was slashed despite the fact that she came into no contact with anyone who would have had that information before she made that statement.

And there is one more that bothers me: Rafaelle writing in his diary about the arrest of Rudy and stating something along the lines of being worried about the Ivorian making up stories. The general gist being he was afraid Rudy would implicate him in the crime.

 

[RoseMontague]

But Rose, what you're saying makes sense and goes against Steve Moore's 25-years of FBI experience!

Don't get me started on the FBI. The anthrax investigation that they claim is solved is just one of the nicer examples of FBI incompetence.

Look, this is what worries me about being afraid to speak for fear of being accused of attempting to derail a thread. You are not going to report me, are you?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

when versus how

You want to say sloppy police work, ok, but I'm not qualified to say contamination....are you?

Alt+F4,

There is a difference between contamination and secondary transfer. It is not that difficult to understand: contamination involves when the DNA transfer took place, and secondary transfer involves how. I suggest you look back over some of my old comments on the subject if you need more in-depth explanations, but it would be better to words in ways that are consistent with their well-defined meanings.
EDT
In my view the clasp might have been contaminated, but DNA might have also ended up on it via secondary transfer prior to its being taken into custody, as Katy_did, myself, and others have pointed out. Upon further consideration, Komponisto's comment might have been in reference to either contamination or secondary transfer, and the comments to which I responded make sense if it were the former.

 

[Dan O.]

Do you have access to all the case files? Because that what Steve Moore says he has, not just the stuff in the public domain.

I was offered a hard drive full of material but declined. I chose not to put myself in a position of deciding what can be released into the public domain. If I were a retired FBI agent with experience in crime scene analysis and lots more free time, I would have gotten much more. It would be easier to get the entire case file digitized on a single disk that to pick and choose what pieces to take.

How could even one person murder Meredith and not leave bloody footprints leading out of her room? When is supercop Steve Moore gonna solve that?

It doesn't take a supper cop to solve that. When Meredith's throat is cut, there is a spray of blood in front of her. A person standing behind and moving backwards could avoid most of the blood. But how does that work in the Massei/Mignini naritive? They have Rudy and Raffaele holding Meredith while Amanda stabs her in the neck from the front. Amanda would be in the direct spray of the blood and standing on the floor that is getting covered in blood. How does that work that there was no blood on any of her clothes including the clothes she was known to have been wearing that evening and no blood on any of her shoes and no bloody footprints from Amanda's shoes or feet in the room?


Of course, the facts that we have are that bloody prints from Rudy's shoe are in the room and in the hall leading out the door.

 

[Dan O.]

And there is one more that bothers me: Rafaelle writing in his diary about the arrest of Rudy and stating something along the lines of being worried about the Ivorian making up stories. The general gist being he was afraid Rudy would implicate him in the crime.

And Raffaele was right to be afraid. Once it became clear that Raffaele did not have a clear alibi, Rudy's story changed to implicate Raffaele instead of that stranger whose description didn't match Raffaele.

 

[Dan O.]

I think it is clear that he did go into the room, lift the cover of the blanket to see for himself. Even Massei doesn't give the inspector the nod on this one, Luca states he saw him go in.

I think Battistelli is just saying what Mignini want's him to say. Any human that encountered that situation would have verified the person's condition and called for immediate medical assistance unless they were absolutely positive that the person was stone cold dead. A applaud what Battistelli did, not what he said he did.

 

[lane99]

Here's 9 reasons why people think they are guilty...

"People"? All things considered, common sense tells me I should be skeptical that you speak for anyone other than yourself.

But if there actually is anyone else here whose analysis holds that it is less likely that someone would walk by a toilet without flushing it, than it is that two people would spontaneously conspire to assist a stranger in raping and murdering one of their friends, I'd like to know who they are.

 

[Alt+F4]

And Raffaele was right to be afraid. Once it became clear that Raffaele did not have a clear alibi, Rudy's story changed to implicate Raffaele instead of that stranger whose description didn't match Raffaele.

Does anyone remember when Rudy changed his story from a "bushy-haired man" (I think that is what he said), to outright stating that AK and RS entered the apartment while he was on the toilet?

 

[Alt+F4]

"People"? All things considered, common sense tells me I should be skeptical that you speak for anyone other than yourself.

Yes, there are 6 billion plus people on planet earth and I'm the only one who thinks they are guilty.

But if there actually is anyone else here whose analysis holds that it is less likely that someone would walk by a toilet without flushing it, than it is that two people would spontaneously conspire to assist a stranger in raping and murdering one of their friends, I'd like to know who they are.

I guess they don't post here.

 

[lane99]

Yes, there are 6 billion plus people on planet earth and I'm the only one who thinks they are guilty. ...

To the contrary. You the the only one I have heard advance the "smoking poo-poo" theory.

...I guess they don't post here.

Keeping in mind, one supposes, a well-known aphorism.

 

[Alt+F4]

To the contrary. You the the only one I have heard advance the "smoking poo-poo" theory.

Amanda didn't flush the toilet because she wanted the police to find that evidence, which they did. She's quite cunning, that one!

EDIT: In fact, she mentions what was in the toilet over and over again just to make sure everyone knows what was in there.