Rules on Smoking - Too Strict?

[A Laughing Baby]

Show me an instance of someone being beaten/dragged behind a pickup truck until dead, forbidden from voting, or hung from a tree for smoking, and then I'll accept your analogy.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Then perhaps you should just look downwards sometimes?
Put exactly "chewing gum" +pavement into Google images and you'll see hundreds of photos like this:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCO38BHvuczSPaPBpM7q_1uDFaCvSXIHlaYINcMEjkSChKg4n0

Where was that photo taken and when?

 

[Emperor_Gestahl]

That's a fair point, Emperor. I only chose the race analogy because it is one that we can all relate too, and highlights how discrimination is rarely based on real evidence of something or someone being a danger to others, but on irrational factors. I appreciate that it may be less antagonistic to use a religious analogy, such as persecution against Catholics or Moslems, to make the same point.

Aside: can we control our religious beliefs? Absolutely, although the extent to which one has been conditioned in one's early years will of course play a part in how easy it is to change. I blame the parents......

Not so much an issue of antagonism rather the validity of the analogy. I too think some people are overreacting and exaggerating the trauma of having to walk past a smoker, but comparing it to racism is just way too much. I'd say it's more like bars discriminating against Steelers fans.. Is it silly and unfair? Sure.. but c'mon we're just talking about cigarettes here have some perspective.

As far as my off-topic religion comment, I'm not sure we have conscious control over our beliefs. As an atheist I just don't see how I could simply decide that god exists and actually believe it. Maybe if I really stuck to my confirmation bias and read a whole lot of material to favorably and selectively interpret but it sure wouldn't be easy to try and change core beliefs simply because I want to.

 

[sadhatter]

You may have a slight point, in that the only time I can recall sitting on chewing gum was in the US. But even there, discarded chewing gum doesn't seem to be a noticeable problem. Furthermore, I can't tell that the lift (elevator) that I've just walked into was last used by someone who chewed gum on the way to work. I can tell if they had a cigarette before the entered the building.

http://www.google.ca/images?hl=en&source=imghp&biw=1366&bih=550&q=gum+wall&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

Your right, its not like it is such a cultural phenomenon it spawned the above link or anything.

 

[Sabretooth]

Best. Thread. Ever. It's got everything: Nazis, gum-induced psychosis, some sort of Wi-Fi cigarettes... it's even better than a gun-control thread.

So I win the innernetz!

Though, I'll have to admit...this is far more entertaining than I expected.

 

[Sabretooth]

...Nicotine is something I would not choose to take into my body. Someone who smokes a normal cigarette in my presence denies me this choice...

I think it should be worth mentioning at this point that nicotine levels are present in a lot of common foods...

http://ezinearticles.com/?6-Common-Foods-With-Nicotine-Content&id=4922576

1. Tomato: It has an average of 7.1-7.3 ng/g

2. Potato: It has a mean average of 15 ng/g wet weight and considerably higher in green and sprouting potatoes with a reported 42.8 ng/g compared to the 4.3 ng/g in ripe potatoes.

3. Eggplant: (aubergines) have a concentration of 100 ng/g of nicotine.

4. Teas: Studies show that black teas appears to have a non-detectable to 100ng /g nicotine concentration. nstant teas show higher nicotine content with a concentration of up to 285 ng/g.

5. Peppers and Capsicums: Common peppers have a solanine concentration of 7.7 - 9.2 mg per 100 grams of serving.

6. Cauliflower: Research findings gave cauliflower a nicotine content of 16.8 ng/g.

I haven't found any studies yet, but I'm wondering if the nicotine in second-hand vapor is along these same levels.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Then perhaps you should just look downwards sometimes?
Put exactly "chewing gum" +pavement into Google images and you'll see hundreds of photos like this:

Have you even bothered to consider the thought process, here? What's the logic? If images of it exist on a Google image search, then it is prevalent?

 

[AlBell]

I didn't say that. I said that these are substances which are harmful and are subject to regulation. Whether or not studies are available which demonstrate that a specific device for delivering these substances is associated with harm does not magically make these substances non-harmful.

Linda

And I said: Nothing is safe.

Grandma would have also mentioned 'tend to your knittin' (and keep your nose out of mine).

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

The biggest problems with cigarette smoking are exposure to tar, triggering allergies, and the unpleasant smell. All of these are eliminated with electronic cigarettes. They do, however, leave the smoker exposed to nicotine.
<snip>

Sort of. Not always.

The e-cigs with pre-filled carts (cartridges) that you see on a store counter or on TV usually (but not always) have some level of nicotine. Most regular e-cig users fill their own carts, and can select nicotine amounts in levels ranging from angina inducing to zero.

It isn't unusual for people to begin using the devices as an alternative nicotine delivery system or smoking cessation tool and gradually reduce the nicotine content to zero, while continuing to enjoy the device itself. The many hundreds of different flavors available range far afield from simple tobacco analogs. Many people tend to drift away from the tobacco flavors after their initial exposure to the devices and end up with something entirely different. Chocolate is popular, as are coffee, vanilla, and a startling list of fruits.

More than a few people mix their own. Aside from the nicotine itself the ingredients are essentially food grade glycerin and flavorings. The most common flavor additives are obtained from suppliers of candy flavorings, like LorAnn Oils.

Mrs. qg and I have recently started experimenting with them. Rather to my surprise a non-smoking ex-LDS friend of ours has expressed quite an interest in getting one of her own. She has no interest in the nicotine. She wants to use it as a dieting aid.

 

[I Am The Scum]

And I said: Nothing is safe.

Nobody's arguing that anything is 100% safe. You're tilting at windmills.

You appear to be saying that since all things are unsafe, then they are all qualitatively identical (correct me if I'm wrong). In other words, driving while sober entails a risk of death, and driving while intoxicated entails a risk of death, so they're the same thing, really. That's obviously false, for reasons I need not go into.

Given that, doesn't it make sense that we should not pretend that the exhaling of clean air is the same as the exhaling of smokey air?

 

[GlennB]

Have you even bothered to consider the thought process, here? What's the logic? If images of it exist on a Google image search, then it is prevalent?

What's your logic? Is it not prevalent on city streets? Is it discountable because it's easily found on Google images?

Walk down any street in London (my home town) and you'll see thousands of patches of trodden-in chewing gum, as illustrated. It is prevalent. From time to time the high-pressure jet cleaners are called in, though mostly in the well-known tourist spots.

Meanwhile it was all over that sidewalk in Times Square when that photo was taken. Perhaps NY has changed lately?

This photo was taken on Jul 25 2006 -- link

(can't embed it, I believe that would be hotlinking)

 

[I Am The Scum]

What's your logic? Is it not prevalent on city streets? Is it discountable because it's easily found on Google images?

Could you point me to the part of my post that establishes my opinion on whether or not it is prevalent? Thanks in advance.

Sorry, but I just don't like it when people come to conclusions for bad reasons. I'm hoping you feel the same way.

 

[fls]

And I said: Nothing is safe.

Grandma would have also mentioned 'tend to your knittin' (and keep your nose out of mine).

Well, if you have a rational justification for why only some employees should be protected by safety regulations, that would be helpful. Unless you're arguing that workplace safety shouldn't be regulated?

Linda

 

[sinclairmcevoy]

As a smoker, I don't have any problems with being told go and freeze, get soaked or walk a few hundred feet to poison myself. It stinks. Anywhere smokers congregate smells like smoke. If it deters me from smoking, great. If other things were made legal to smoke, like pot or crack or meth, I sure as hell wouldn't appreciate people enjoying that at the entrance to the mall or a store or office. You wanna smoke, fine. Fill yer boots. But, consider those who don't want to be exposed.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

That's not what a proper smoke nazi would say. What are you hiding, other forms of tobacco? Do you have chews in your attic? Maybe you're hiding some snus in your basement as well...

 

[moebob]

I was a heavy smoker for 40 years! I will be smoke free for 1 year, in the third week of March. I always used to say, reformed smokers are the worst complainers. I used to bash them! But, I also didn't have a problem going outside, so not to expose them to it. But the real problem is, smokers need to be away from entrance ways, cause the smoke does go into everything it's around, roofs, walls, ect; And I say that because I've found that when I go to the grocerie store, the help goes outside for their break, right by the entrance. I don't want to pass there cause I get Physically ill! But I guess that's because I'm addicted to cigs! But I'm not an active smoker! I have an unopened pack of cigs, in my desk. I choose not to open them. I did not use the patch, I did not use pills. I have asthma, and decided that I want to live! And I was a 2-pack a day smoker! But don't shoot all the smokers, there are alot worse things going on out there!

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Show me an instance of someone being beaten/dragged behind a pickup truck until dead, forbidden from voting, or hung from a tree for smoking, and then I'll accept your analogy.

For that matter, show me where there's ever been any credible evidence that a black person—just by his own inherent nature—poses any sort of credible health risk to a white person that happens to be sitting next to him.

 

[23_Tauri]

Not so much an issue of antagonism rather the validity of the analogy. I too think some people are overreacting and exaggerating the trauma of having to walk past a smoker, but comparing it to racism is just way too much. I'd say it's more like bars discriminating against Steelers fans.. Is it silly and unfair? Sure.. but c'mon we're just talking about cigarettes here have some perspective.

I wasn't trying to make a direct comparison with racism, as evidently smokers aren't victims of a global slave trade etc., but attempting to illustrate that talking about anyone in a way that suggests total intolerance of others lifestyle is not acceptable in my book. Well, not to me it isn't anyway. You could substitute the word 'smokers' for gays, obese people, teenage mums, the feckless poor, Mormons, bikers, the Romans, even Steelers fans, no one deserves being told they stink and should be put in a giant hamster wheel.

As far as my off-topic religion comment, I'm not sure we have conscious control over our beliefs. As an atheist I just don't see how I could simply decide that god exists and actually believe it. Maybe if I really stuck to my confirmation bias and read a whole lot of material to favorably and selectively interpret but it sure wouldn't be easy to try and change core beliefs simply because I want to.

Do you want to start another thread?

 

[A Laughing Baby]

I wasn't trying to make a direct comparison with racism, as evidently smokers aren't victims of a global slave trade etc., but attempting to illustrate that talking about anyone in a way that suggests total intolerance of others lifestyle is not acceptable in my book. Well, not to me it isn't anyway. You could substitute the word 'smokers' for gays, obese people, teenage mums, the feckless poor, Mormons, bikers, the Romans, even Steelers fans, no one deserves being told they stink and should be put in a giant hamster wheel.


Do you want to start another thread?

The problem is you think smokers experience complete intolerance, when they don't. Smokers (as a gender/racial/economic-class neutral group) have literally never experienced total intolerance.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

…no one deserves being told they stink and should be put in a giant hamster wheel.

If you stink, then you stink. And smoking makes you stink. It makes it very unpleasant for nonsmokers to be near you. Why is it any more rude for someone to tell you why he doesn't want to be near you, than it is for you to impose your self-inflicted stink on someone else?