Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Danceme]

Between the 23 and 25 seconds you get a view of the top of the front portion of the shoe. Its white.

http://w ww.youtube.com/watch?v=8tH-klo4nGQ

And yes, I think Rudy did deny it was him.

Yes, I can see white but I also see dark which is darker than his jeans and it's suddenly struck me what they look like. I think they're Converse.

http://shoes.about.com/od/specialtyshoes/ig/Sneakers.--2P/Converse.htm

ETA: hmmmm, can't find any Converse with white soles........still a mystery then

 

[Chris_Halkides]

no assumptions necessary

That's not how it works. If someone makes a statement why would I assume they were lying, incompetent or corrupt?

In other words halides, when did you stop beating your wife?

Alt+F4,

There is no need to assume it. Several of us have spent some effort over these past thousand pages documenting the lies/misstatements/misleading statements. Charlie Wilkes put together a nice list, but I don't have it at hand*. Also his comment numbers 4014, 4067, 4127, 4128, and 4667 in the previous thread discuss some of them.

ETA
*I found a comment by Malkmus, who quoted Charlie's list.

 

[Chris C]

We know she was on her back with the bra on for at least a short while, as the aspirated blood droplets show.

So if she was on her back why try and pull the bra off from the front? Why not just slip the knife under the centre of the bra and slice through where it will then just fall open?

If it is cut from the back, or pulled apart from the back, as seems reasonable to assume given the above, he had to turn her over to do it, or perhaps she managed to turn herself somehow in a last effort to break free.

Well I'm trying respond to 2 different theories. One is showing what appears to be the stiching not only breaking on the clasp portion, but also breaking where the straps connect. If that is the case, then why bother rolling her over to break the bra, when it would be just as easy to pull it from the front and break it at the seams. After all there is lots of blood on the front of the bra. Very little on the back.

I've always felt that the bra was cut or broke before the stabbing, but lately there has been some good arguments to it happening after the stabbing. I'm just trying to point to the minor details.

PS. I think your right, those look like converse. The soles of the shoes of the guy walking are not white.

 

[Katody Matrass]

No, it's certainly not simple.

Perhaps he no longer needed to restrain her if she was laying on her back at this point. But how to explain the bra being cut or tugged apart from the back? It would have been the path of least resistance to use his knife to cut it open from the front.

Even easier just to brutally pull from the front. And don't tell me a raging, adrenaline (and possibly drugs) driven male couldn't do it or would look for some path of least resistance.

How common is necrophilia I wonder? I think it takes a particularly depraved individual to be still thinking about sex while his victim is gushing blood, making who knows what kinds of sounds or faces, and or perhaps just expired.

I'm afraid it took some time, so I wouldn't bring necrophilia into discourse. I agree about the rest.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

line them up

To all,

Police lineups (in person or by photo) are supposed to proceed by certain rules (in many jurisdictions) to ensure fairness and accuracy. For example, a lineup should have a certain number of fillers, people who cannot be associated with the crime. Does anyone know what the rules are for police line ups in Italy? Were they followed with respect to the witnesses who claimed to see Amanda or Raffaele?

 

[komponisto]

Knox has converted to Catholicism.

Source?

I don't think this is true. I suspect, rather, that whoever claimed this is making an incorrect assumption based on her participation in masses and friendship with Don Saulo, etc.

(Knox discusses her views on religion in the Girlanda book.)

 

[Danceme]

Even easier just to brutally pull from the front. And don't tell me a raging, adrenaline (and possibly drugs) driven male couldn't do it or would look for some path of least resistance.

Yes I'm sure he could have, but then there should be marks on her skin, rubbed like a carpet burn, from the violent tug which was strong enough to break a backstrap and two shoulder straps. I can't see this happening without leaving evidence on her skin.

ETA: Plus, wasn't Rudy's dna only found on the backstrap, not the front of her bra? A tug sufficiently strong to break the bra in three places surely would leave dna from skin cells of his hand.

 

[Chris C]

Source?

I don't think this is true. I suspect, rather, that whoever claimed this is making an incorrect assumption based on her participation in masses and friendship with Don Saulo, etc.

(Knox discusses her views on religion in the Girlanda book.)

Haha, don't ask me for the source. Ask PMF. See how far that gets you

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

How common is necrophilia I wonder? I think it takes a particularly depraved individual to be still thinking about sex while his victim is gushing blood, making who knows what kinds of sounds or faces, and or perhaps just expired.

Necrophilia as a preference is rare, and from what I know it involves fetish behavior not on display at this crime scene. But I have heard of other cases where a home invader raped a woman who was dying or dead, opportunistically. I wouldn't say it is common, but the facts show that it is what happened in this case.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Yes I'm sure he could have, but then there should be marks on her skin, rubbed like a carpet burn, from the violent tug which was strong enough to break a backstrap and two shoulder straps. I can't see this happening without leaving evidence on her skin.

We agreed the shoulder straps were torn. And there's no doubt the bra was pulled hard enough to deform the hooks. Where are the marks then?

I think you're wrong about the "carpet burn". Pulling the bra would cause much pressure, and very little kinetic friction, and the force sufficient to break the seams at the point of failure would spread rather harmlessly on the large surface of the skin. Not that I'm asking for another experiment

 

[komponisto]

That quite possibly is the #1 thing going against the FOAKers 'theory', if they could all get together and just write down all the people and things involved in this case where they lied, were corrupt or were incompetent, half of them would change sides once they saw how large the list was.

It sounds like you severely underestimate the prevalence of incompetence among humans.

Having a bunch of police and prosecutors botch a case is nothing out of the ordinary. Even more to the point, it's surely at least as common as the type of crime that has been hypothesized here.

 

[Katody Matrass]

ETA: Plus, wasn't Rudy's dna only found on the backstrap, not the front of her bra? A tug sufficiently strong to break the bra in three places surely would leave dna from skin cells of his hand.

Do we know what parts of the bra did they test?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

the jacket

To all,

Here is a different address for the video (maybe slightly higher quality). I think that the jacket looks like the one Rudy was wearing when arrested.

 

[HumanityBlues]

To all,

Here is a different url for the video (maybe slightly higher quality). I think that the jacket looks like the one Rudy was wearing when arrested.

First link doesn't work.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

white stripe

They are definately light colored. I dont know all the colors available, but those are definately not dark shoes. You can tell by the rest of the persons clothes, that didn't turn white on the camera. So I would have to agree that the shoes that are being worn are white.

If Rudy's outbreak 2 sneakers are black or dark colored, then thats not him walking. Which also begs to differ, why no one has come forward and said that was them walking on the camera. IF thats not Rudy or Sollecito, then Rudy should be arguing that person is the killer.

Chris C,

What about the white stripe that runs along the edge of many Nike Outbreak 2 shoes? Could that be what one sees in the video?

 

[Danceme]

To all,

Here is a different url for the video (maybe slightly higher quality). I think that the jacket looks like the one Rudy was wearing when arrested.

The first link is broken.

There is clearly quilting ie: sewn in small squares, on the jacket in the video which the coat he was wearing when arrested doesn't seem to have.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

We know she was on her back with the bra on for at least a short while, as the aspirated blood droplets show.

So if she was on her back why try and pull the bra off from the front? Why not just slip the knife under the centre of the bra and slice through where it will then just fall open?

If it is cut from the back, or pulled apart from the back, as seems reasonable to assume given the above, he had to turn her over to do it, or perhaps she managed to turn herself somehow in a last effort to break free.



No, it's certainly not simple.

Perhaps he no longer needed to restrain her if she was laying on her back at this point. But how to explain the bra being cut or tugged apart from the back? It would have been the path of least resistance to use his knife to cut it open from the front.

How common is necrophilia I wonder? I think it takes a particularly depraved individual to be still thinking about sex while his victim is gushing blood, making who knows what kinds of sounds or faces, and or perhaps just expired.

I can only conclude that the fact that necrophilia has been raised as a discussion point demonstrates just how little some people think about the murder victim or her family.

 

[CDHost]

Spot on! Her blurting about the holocaust was really stunning.
And Dave despite of his attitude totally makes sense, cutting through the crap to the heart of the issue - no motive, no murder weapon, no criminal record, case that makes no sense pushed by a prosecutor who is a convicted criminal.

I know that was a weird one it was "well we disagree on this but we agree on holocaust denial". Most Americans were opposed to any punishment for Robert Faurisson. The same way that most Americans think Scientology is a dangerous cult but don't approve of state enforced religious bans as per France and Germany. What she is suggesting is way more than the Chinese do with Falun Gong or illegal forms of Christianity.

I don't think she actually believes what she said. I think she was just freaked out and likely Dave Rosenburg did a lot on anti-holocaust denial and....

 

[Chris_Halkides]

here is the reference

First link doesn't work.

It was supposed to link to an article in the Sun called "Meredith's last moments," from 25 September 2008 and written by Vince Soodin.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1734239.ece

 

[Danceme]

I can only conclude that the fact that necrophilia has been raised as a discussion point demonstrates just how little some people think about the murder victim or her family.

Oh pleease! Do you just say stuff like that to get digs in. This is a speculation on Rudy's behavior only. It's not the first time and there's been alot worse speculated to on this forum.