What does everyone think of the Nuremberg Trials-Did they prove Nazi guilt?

[Revdude]

I know what the Holocaust was,it's what the Nazis did to quite a lot of innocent people during WWII. What do you consider the Holocaust to be?

I would rather not drift this thread anymore than it already is.
If you wish to discuss specific elements of the Holocaust or Nazism, start a new thread and we will leave this one for the original topic.

 

[dudalb]

I would rather not drift this thread anymore than it already is.
If you wish to discuss specific elements of the Holocaust or Nazism, start a new thread and we will leave this one for the original topic.

It is sort of hard to discuss Nazi Guilt without also discussing The Holocaust and Nazism. Nice try at a dodge, though.

 

[dafydd]

It is sort of hard to discuss Nazi Guilt without also discussing The Holocaust and Nazism. Nice try at a dodge, though.

The master race were not on trial in Nuremberg for parking offences.

 

[Dogzilla]

The master race were not on trial in Nuremberg for parking offences.

They weren't on trial for what they did to the Jews either.

 

[dafydd]

They weren't on trial for what they did to the Jews either.

Yes they were.

 

[Wroclaw]

They weren't on trial for what they did to the Jews either.

Yes, they were. Crimes against Jewish civilian populations were covered under the fourth charge, i.e., crimes against humanity.

You new to this?

 

[uke2se]

Yes, they were. Crimes against Jewish civilian populations were covered under the fourth charge, i.e., crimes against humanity.

You new to this?

Probably just willfully ignorant.

 

[tsig]

I've heard lots of denier excuses for the Hitler's persecution of Jews,but that they were turning Germany lavender is a new one on me.

What seems even stranger is that the Jews had this stranglehold on Germany yet Hitler got elected. Hummmm

 

[Saggy]

They weren't on trial for what they did to the Jews either.

With only one exception, Kaltenbrunner was the only defendant charged with a role in the holohoax, he testified as follows ....

COL. BROOKHART: Witness after witness, by testimony and affidavit, has said that the gas chamber killings were done on general or specific orders of Kaltenbrunner.

KALTENBRUNNER: Show me one of those men or any of those orders. It is utterly impossible.

COL. BROOKHART: Practically all of the orders came through Kaltenbrunner.

KALTENBRUNNER: Entirely impossible.

Kaltenbrunner also testified that he first heard of the hoax on allied radio.

The charges against Kaltenbrunner were preposterous and there was not a shred of evidence for them. The 'orders' mentioned by Brookhard did not exist.

 

[uke2se]

With only one exception, Kaltenbrunner was the only defendant charged with a role in the holohoax,

Like so often before, Saggy is lying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials

Out of the 24 accused, 19 where indicted for crimes against humanity, which means, the holocaust. Of those 19, 16 where found guilty with three declared innocent. Of the 16 guilty, 4 were sentenced to terms in prison while the rest were executed.

 

[Dogzilla]

Yes they were.

The Jews were one of the many groups that the Allies charged Germany with persecuting under the crimes against humanity. They weren't the only group or the most important--a fact bemoaned by leaders of the Jewish community at the time.

Today, the trial was all about the Jews. But at the time, not so much.

 

[Dogzilla]

Like so often before, Saggy is lying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials

Out of the 24 accused, 19 where indicted for crimes against humanity, which means, the holocaust. Of those 19, 16 where found guilty with three declared innocent. Of the 16 guilty, 4 were sentenced to terms in prison while the rest were executed.

The holocaust and Crimes Against Humanity are not interchangeable. The holocaust is the Jewish subdivision of the Crimes Against Humanity. It's not the whole thing.

 

[uke2se]

The Jews were one of the many groups that the Allies charged Germany with persecuting under the crimes against humanity. They weren't the only group or the most important--a fact bemoaned by leaders of the Jewish community at the time.

Today, the trial was all about the Jews. But at the time, not so much.

The Nazis did indeed persecute lots of different groups. I have never seen this fact bemoaned by any leaders of the Jewish community, now or then. The Jews were probably the most numerous of the peoples that were murdered, so if you quantify importance by numbers of murder victims, the Jews were the most important. Otherwise, each human victim of the murderous Nazis was equally important.

The charges leveled against the 19 defendants accused of crimes against humanity encompassed the entire holocaust in its broad definition. The systematic murder of the Jewish people was included in that definition.

 

[uke2se]

The holocaust and Crimes Against Humanity are not interchangeable. The holocaust is the Jewish subdivision of the Crimes Against Humanity. It's not the whole thing.

See my post above. The holocaust in its broader definition encompasses all the murdered peoples. The Nazis who were accused of crimes against humanity were accused of murdering the Jews as well as the Romani, the Slavs, the Poles, the handicapped, the homosexuals, the freemasons, the Jehova's Witnesses, Soviet POWs, the East Slavs and the Serbs and South Slavs.

 

[TSR]

With only one exception, Kaltenbrunner was the only defendant charged with a role in the holohoax,

.
Saggs knows this to be a lie, since the other defendants have been pointed out to zie multiple times on multiple fora.
.

he testified as follows ....

.
"Right at the beginning, I would like to state that I assume responsibility for every wrong that was committed within the scope of this office since I was appointed Chief of the RSHA and as far as it happened under my actual control, which means that I knew about it or was required to know about it."

and

"Himmler told me in 1944, in February or March. That is, he did not tell me, he admitted it."

Saggs also knows this.

Zie also knows about this telegram which talks about "the immediate and thorough eradication of the Jews in Italy."
.

COL. BROOKHART: Witness after witness, by testimony and affidavit, has said that the gas chamber killings were done on general or specific orders of Kaltenbrunner.

.
Hold that thought
.

The charges against Kaltenbrunner were preposterous and there was not a shred of evidence for them.

.
You mean other than the "witness after witness, <who> by testimony and affidavit, <have> said that the gas chamber killings were done on general or specific orders of Kaltenbrunner?"

Because of course, the denial of personal guilt by the accused is *always* more credible than that of other witnesses.

And, of course, since Charles Manson did not specifically admit his guilt, he never ordered anything and both the LaBianca and Tate families are still alive -- they just ... moved to the East.
.

 

[Sledge]

Wait a second. I thought the reason all the Nazis admitted to taking part in the Holocaust (can we please drop the childishness of "Holohoax"? It only makes a discussion harder to follow) was they weren't allowed to deny it. Now we've got Saggy claiming Kaltenbrunner denied it all. Which is it?

 

[Saggy]

Wait a second. I thought the reason all the Nazis admitted to taking part in the Holocaust (can we please drop the childishness of "Holohoax"? It only makes a discussion harder to follow) was they weren't allowed to deny it. Now we've got Saggy claiming Kaltenbrunner denied it all. Which is it?

Not a single Nazi defendant admitted to taking any part in the holohoax. They did not know about it in reality, which is not surprising as it did not happen, and they did not 'admit' to participating in it or knowing about it. Only Kaltenbrunner was explicitly charged with any role, which he emphatically denied, as we have seen. And please, could we drop the absurd fraud of the "Holocaust"?

 

[dafydd]

Not a single Nazi defendant admitted to taking any part in the holohoax. They did not know about it in reality, which is not surprising as it did not happen, and they did not 'admit' to participating in it or knowing about it. Only Kaltenbrunner was explicitly charged with any role, which he emphatically denied, as we have seen. And please, could we drop the absurd fraud of the "Holocaust"?

No,we will not drop the Holocaust. You know it happened,and you would love it to happen again because you hate Jews.

 

[ddt]

Like so often before, Saggy is lying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials

Out of the 24 accused, 19 where indicted for crimes against humanity, which means, the holocaust. Of those 19, 16 where found guilty with three declared innocent. Of the 16 guilty, 4 were sentenced to terms in prison while the rest were executed.

<denier mode>
Oh, wrong! Goering committed suicide in his prison cell, he wasn't executed! That proves the Holocaust didn't take place!
</denier mode>

 

[Sledge]

Not a single Nazi defendant admitted to taking any part in the holohoax.

See, this is exactly the problem. Are you saying no Nazi defendant admitted taking part in the Holocaust, or that they didn't admit taking part in faking the Holocaust? I understand that you don't think the Holocaust happened as history presently says, but you need to wait until you've won that argument before you start trying to change the words we use to refer to it. As much as anything, it makes you look like a childish individual throwing out pathetic insults because you can't win the argument.

Oh, and something else to note: I'm trying to help you in this post, Saggy. That's how bad your position is. Someone who disagrees with everything you stand for is trying to strengthen your argument so it's at least an interesting fight.