Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

Status
Not open for further replies.
RWVBWL said:
Hi all,
Being a fan of Frank Sfarzo's Perugia Shock, I check in daily, if possible.
Does anyone else have an idea about the meaning of Mr. Srafzo's last post in the comments section?

Frank Sfarzo said...
"I can confirm the same treatment. Much worse actually.
And the same evidence creating"...
Click to expand...

Thanks for flagging this. I'll give you one guess what he means, and - bingo - you guessed right. JREF owes me a million bucks for proving I have ESP.
 
Sherlock Holmes said:
That does not explaine no defense wounds, she gets stabbed in the throat, she uses her hand or hands to grab her throat, unless Rudy is holding both of her hands in one of his, while his other is doing the stabbing, I don't think that is very likely. Care to explain how this action is likely?
Click to expand...

No defense wounds? She was beaten near to death to begin with. How many bruises did she have? Everyone is assuming she was conscious when she was stabbed to death.
 
Kevin_Lowe said:
Has anyone ever seriously suggested that as a theory?

The theory generally settled upon here for the Lone Wolf hypothesis is that Rudy got blood on the leg of his pants and other places other than the soles of his shoes, walked to the bathroom without leaving a blood trail, removed his shoes, washed the blood off himself using the sink, bidet and shower, in the process leaving the footprint on the bathmat in a mixture of blood and water, returned to Meredith's room with towels, stole some stuff, and then got a small amount of blood on the bottom of his shoes as he left the murder room for the second time and exited via the front door.

What DNA evidence do you think exists that supports the idea that someone was holding her hands, and how does this evidence support the theory that someone was holding her hands?
Click to expand...

Also dont forget to add the part where Rudy admits to going the room to check on meredith. Then going to the bathroom to grab towels. Which happens to be where the blood is found. Then going back to Meredith with the towels. Now we always here this clean up theory that has never been proven. Yet the only thing used to soak up blood was handled by Rudy, not Knox or Sollecito. So if you believe a clean up happened, isn't it more likely that Rudy used the towels to clean up then Knox or Sollecito.
 
Last edited:
Malkmus said:
What is unlikely about it? That Rudy stabbed her once from behind while she was standing, and that she either fell/was pushed to her knees and that he finished her while she was bent over on the floor? Which part seems strange?
Click to expand...

Ever stabbed someone in the neck? I'm betting the first time isn't exactly easy. More than likely Meredith was stabbed 2 times while unconscious. Which could eplain why one of the stabs didn't penetrate as far as the other one. Then Meredith either awoke because of the pain, which then forced the killer to cut her throat to hasten the job, or the killer felt she wasn't dying fast enough.
 
Chris C said:
No defense wounds? She was beaten near to death to begin with. How many bruises did she have? Everyone is assuming she was conscious when she was stabbed to death.
Click to expand...

There's good reason for that. There were aspiration marks on the wardrobe doors. A hand print on the inside of the wardrobe where MK probably tried to grasp it while making an attempt to rise from the floor.
 
Draca said:
There's good reason for that. There were aspiration marks on the wardrobe doors. A hand print on the inside of the wardrobe where MK probably tried to grasp it while making an attempt to rise from the floor.
Click to expand...

You would have to lean the head back to cut her throat. Plus the act of stabbing someone would shock the body awake if a person wasn't in a deep unconscious state. The real question is how many times would a man would have to beat a woman before she gave up and stopped fighting.
How many bloody handprints did Meredith leave? There was no bloody struggle. She would not have been conscious long after getting her throat cut. So how long was she conscious for before and after she had her throat cut? What did she do after her throat was cut? Did she try to crawl somewhere?
 
Last edited:
Chris C said:
No defense wounds? She was beaten near to death to begin with. How many bruises did she have?
Click to expand...

This is very much news to me, I was under the impression that despite the large number of injuries documented in the autopsy, all but the stab wounds were superficial injuries.

Do you have a reference for this?
 
RWVBWL said:
Hi Poppy1016,,
I can see your point, it is 1 that I too have wondered about...
With that said though, the investigators did not, I believe, do the greatest job that day. They video'd the bra clasp, but did not even collect it as evidence. Who know's what else they might have missed?

If someone else were there with Rudy, someone more experienced in disabling a person and then having the balls, so to say, to actually stab a young woman in the throat multiple times, he might be the same type of person that might have worn gloves and/or a nylon stocking mask, thereby minimising his chances of leaving any trace of himself there.

Though others might disagree, I believe that Rudy Guede was involved in the break-in at the lawyers office. But recalling an old Perugia Shock posting, I wonder who turned off the burglar alarm? Rudy, or someone else, someone more experienced?
Click to expand...

Rudy probably figured it out himself. He's a troubled individual, but he's obviously quite intelligent.
 
Chris C said:
Yes Really. Do you think you would be conscious if you was a woman with that many bruises or able to put up a fight?
Click to expand...

True. Meredith's head had been bashed into the floor quite hard by her assailant. Although I think the first stab would have been enough to disorient her. I could be wrong, but I think the head trauma was induced after the stabbing when she had been rolled over onto her back so she could be sexually assaulted.
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
The police video captured just one piece of glass on the floor, near the doorway to the room, and not where she fell to all fours. She had knife cuts on her hands, but there were only a few. She wasn't facing her assailant in a prolonged struggle, which is the situation where you see a victim with multiple stab wounds to the chest and abdomen and hands with numerous defensive cuts. Meredith was killed by an assailant who got himself behind her, in the style of a mugger, and cut her throat.

The limited nature of the defensive wounds is suggested by the prosecution as "evidence" of multiple attackers, and this suggestion has been dutifully embraced by the credulous. It does not, however, map to the reality of what happened, as shown by the crime scene photos.
Click to expand...

Charlie, have you seen the wounds on her hands? The Massei report is somewhat vague in regards to them, and I'm curious to know if they were on the back or front side and if they were actually cuts. The report implies that they were not "stabs" but rather light pricks - not causing blood loss.
 
RWVBWL said:
Hi Malkmus,
Have a look at this post.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6749611#post6749611
What do you think?
Click to expand...

Hey, RWVBWL, I hadn't seen that before, but my first impression of that article is that it is reporting false information like most of the ones early ion the investigation. If there was blood on the window it would have been tested and we'd know if it belonged to one of the three convicted or if it was "unidentified". Or it would be present in the crime scene photos.
However, the bloody tissues are real and I have wondered about those. Amanda and Raffaele were inspected for cuts and bruises and nothing was found. Rudy, as you've noted, did have cuts on his hands, but I believe the blood was attributed to an unidentified female. So, as some others have stated, I just don't have enough info to formulate an opinion of whether Rudy collaborated with someone else, though there is a small amount of evidence to suggest it.
I have to disagree with your hypothesis that Rudy perhaps was a witness to someone else committing the crime and grabbed the towels to help her because his DNA was found inside her and also in her purse. Although it is possible that the purse DNA was there because he didn't have a phone and was looking for Meredith's to call someone - But I just don't think that's why or he would have actually called someone and I don't think Meredith had consensual sexual activity with him.
 
Kevin_Lowe said:
This is very much news to me, I was under the impression that despite the large number of injuries documented in the autopsy, all but the stab wounds were superficial injuries.

Do you have a reference for this?
Click to expand...

According to Ron Hendry.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RonHendry7.html

Meredith suffered the following bruises and cuts, not counting the 3 to here neck.

Hard blow to the face that caused her nose and lips to swell, and also left bruising on the inside of her lips and gums.
Horizontal cut 1 inch left cheek. (either she was cut with a knife or was hit hard enough to cut open her face)
Trauma bruising below left ear.
Bruising both elbows, mid section and forearms.
Knife tip wounds to the hands.
Trauma to right shoulder rotator cuff.

Now I dont know whether to believe Ron's version because I find it hard to believe she was even conscious at this point. At most she only had the use of one arm and suffered two different blows to the face with one of them hard enough to break open the skin. Plus the blow behind the back ear. I have been hit in the face by some very large men. Some of them hard enough to stagger me and none of those cut my face open. So either she was fighting for her life and got cut on the hands and face by a knife, or she was hit hard enough 3 times in the head to render her unconscious.

Now has anyone seen any pictures of the bra clasp close up. I was wondering if there was blood in the cut section. Because if a knife didn't leave blood on the bra clasp, then either it was cut off prior to the stabbing, or there is a 3rd knife. (if you believe the prosecution's, "a knife for everyone theory")
 
Last edited:
Chris C said:
According to Ron Hendry.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RonHendry7.html

Meredith suffered the following bruises and cuts, not counting the 3 to here neck.

Hard blow to the face that caused her nose and lips to swell, and also left bruising on the inside of her lips and gums.
Horizontal cut 1 inch left cheek. (either she was cut with a knife or was hit hard enough to cut open her face)
Trauma bruising below left ear.
Bruising both elbows, mid section and forearms.
Knife tip wounds to the hands.
Trauma to right shoulder rotator cuff.

Now I dont know whether to believe Ron's version because I find it hard to believe she was even conscious at this point. At most she only had the use of one arm and suffered two different blows to the face with one of them hard enough to break open the skin. Plus the blow behind the back ear. I have been hit in the face by some very large men. Some of them hard enough to stagger me and none of those cut my face open. So either she was fighting for her life and got cut on the hands and face by a knife, or she was hit hard enough 3 times in the head to render her unconscious.

Now has anyone seen any pictures of the bra clasp close up. I was wondering if there was blood in the cut section. Because if a knife didn't leave blood on the bra clasp, then either it was cut off prior to the stabbing, or there is a 3rd knife.
Click to expand...

This is the same as what I've ascertained from reading Massei's summary of the injuries as well.
 
Chris C said:
According to Ron Hendry.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RonHendry7.html

Meredith suffered the following bruises and cuts, not counting the 3 to here neck.

Hard blow to the face that caused her nose and lips to swell, and also left bruising on the inside of her lips and gums.
Horizontal cut 1 inch left cheek. (either she was cut with a knife or was hit hard enough to cut open her face)
Trauma bruising below left ear.
Bruising both elbows, mid section and forearms.
Knife tip wounds to the hands.
Trauma to right shoulder rotator cuff.

Now I dont know whether to believe Ron's version because I find it hard to believe she was even conscious at this point. At most she only had the use of one arm and suffered two different blows to the face with one of them hard enough to break open the skin. Plus the blow behind the back ear. I have been hit in the face by some very large men. Some of them hard enough to stagger me and none of those cut my face open. So either she was fighting for her life and got cut on the hands and face by a knife, or she was hit hard enough 3 times in the head to render her unconscious.
Click to expand...

I just don't buy it, sorry. Boxers and MMAers get their faces split open by hits without being KOd all the time, and in any case if it's a cut with no associated bruising then it sounds much more like a superficial knife wound than blunt trauma. Untrained people can hit untrained people in the head way more than three times without knocking them out.

It's just not the case that a blow that will break the skin will knock someone out.

The only injury which seems like it could even possibly result in a knockout is the bruise below the left ear, and even then it's a heck of a lot easier to bruise someone than knock them out.

Now has anyone seen any pictures of the bra clasp close up. I was wondering if there was blood in the cut section. Because if a knife didn't leave blood on the bra clasp, then either it was cut off prior to the stabbing, or there is a 3rd knife(if you believe the prosecution, "a knife for everyone theory".
Click to expand...

Interesting question! Since the bra was definitely removed after the major stab wounds were inflicted, I'm going to guess there will be blood on the bra where it was cut.
 
Chris C said:
Now has anyone seen any pictures of the bra clasp close up. I was wondering if there was blood in the cut section. Because if a knife didn't leave blood on the bra clasp, then either it was cut off prior to the stabbing, or there is a 3rd knife. (if you believe the prosecution's, "a knife for everyone theory")
Click to expand...

Bra Clasp
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=124467457577734&set=a.124466634244483.15396.106344459390034

It is not certain the bra clasp was cut off. It could have been ripped off also.


 
Last edited:
Kevin_Lowe said:
I just don't buy it, sorry. Boxers and MMAers get their faces split open by hits without being KOd all the time, and in any case if it's a cut with no associated bruising then it sounds much more like a superficial knife wound than blunt trauma. Untrained people can hit untrained people in the head way more than three times without knocking them out.

It's just not the case that a blow that will break the skin will knock someone out.
Click to expand...

How many boxers have you seen get hit on the cheek and jaw flush. No cut, knock out. Meredith isn't a boxer so I'm sure she isn't accustomed to getting hit in the face hard enough to cut open her cheek and bruise her face. Meredith was struck hard enough to leave bruising on the gums and a cut on the face.

Though lets look at her wounds closer. 1 or 2 hits to the face. Meredith drops to the floor knocked out. Hits floor bruises her elbows, hip, thighs, forearms and dislocates her shoulder. Every one of those can be left by a drop to the floor after loosing consciousness temporarily. Attempts to get up, 1 more blow behind ear and fight over. Rest of the bruising could then be left by the sexual assault and throat cutting afterwards.

Now if you want to blame the cut on a knife that brings in a whole different monster about how 3 people couldn't have been involved and how it goes against the prosecutions theory.
 
Chris C said:
Go get a bra and test which fails first. The clasp or the bra.
Click to expand...

The bra came apart on both the straps and clasp at seem marks. It could have been wripped off. In the photo above you can see the seperation of the two cloth parts and the pulled threads.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom