• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Merged Discussion of the moon landing "hoax"

Status
Not open for further replies.
That hotlink shows what could be a lunar rover path.
Lunar rover? That was Apollo 14, there was no lunar rover. You really are up on the Apollo missions aren't you? They had the "Lunar rickshaw" which Alan Shepard and Ed Mitchell dragged around.
Discussions going back more than three years include calculating the time it takes the dust to fall from the rover wheels as proof that this was filmed on earth. The only problem with that is that earth gravity would speed up the fall of the dust, but the air would slow it down.
Um, no.

ETA: The LRO took pictures of the Apollo landing sites. Are they faked? Yes or no.
 
Last edited:
Have you been to area 51? I heard that there are signs that say that you may be shot on site if you enter. That is just rumor, but the truth remains that it is off limits for most.

It would be hard to shoot you off site if you're trespassing on site.
 
Is that supposed to mean something? Is English your first language?

You took that out of context in order to make a straw man argument. The entire post follows:

Using the approximation that Gm = 1/6th Ge, then the answer is 2.45. Using a more accurate gravitational constant, the answer is 2.46.

A drop on the moon would require approximately the square root of 6 longer.

Time something fall on earth with a stop watch. Multiply the measured time by the square root of six (about 2.45). That's how long a fall from the same height would take on the moon.

However, slowing down the frame footage would slow down the apparent fall times.

The main argument against 1/6th gravity is the energy. A casual jump with a 45 degree knee bend - as observed in some of those videos - would produce a one foot jump on earth and a three foot jump on the moon even in suits that weighed as much as the astronaut. If they weighed 120 pounds, then the moon jump would have achieved a height of four feet.

On the other hand, wearing those same 120 pount suits on earth would have resulted in a jump of a half a foot.

If the knees of the suit were too stiff, the suits could not have been changed in the LM.

My conclusion: All of the moon jumps should have been 3 or more feet high. Some of the jumps should have been five feet high.
 
Last edited:
A good simulation of 1/6th gravity wearing 120 pound suits would be to walk in a pool with water up to your nipples. That will give you a feel for the slow bouncing nature of a real walk in 1/6th gravity.

Of course the foward motion would be faster because you are not impeded by the water. The bouncing up and down motion would be approximately the same. I did not see this in the lunar videos.
 
Last edited:
Certainly someone in 1/6th gravity should have been able to slam dunk a basketball. Without the suit in 1/6th gravity (obviously impossible), he should have been able to easily jump over the net and even the backboard.

Michael Jordan would have had a 15 foot vertical leap! The bottom of his sneakers would have been 15 feet off the ground with his body and knees straight and vertical.
 
Last edited:
You took that out of context in order to make a straw man argument. The entire post follows:



Time something fall on earth with a stop watch. Multiply the measured time by the square root of six (about 2.45). That's how long a fall from the same height would take on the moon.

However, slowing down the frame footage would slow down the apparent fall times.

The main argument against 1/6th gravity is the energy. A casual jump with a 45 degree knee bend - as observed in some of those videos - would produce a one foot jump on earth and a three foot jump on the moon even in suits that weighed as much as the astronaut. If they weighed 120 pounds, then the moon jump would have achieved a height of four feet.

On the other hand, wearing those same 120 pount suits on earth would have resulted in a jump of a half a foot.

If the knees of the suit were too stiff, the suits could not have been changed in the LM.

My conclusion: All of the moon jumps should have been 3 or more feet high. Some of the jumps should have been five feet high.

Regardless of effort?
 
Certainly someone in 1/6th gravity should have been able to slam dunk a basketball. Without the suit in 1/6th gravity (obviously impossible), he should have been able to easily jump over the net and even the backboard.

Michael Jordan would have had a 15 foot vertical leap! The bottom of his sneakers would have been 15 feet off the ground with his body and knees straight and vertical.

Obviously you are trying to make a case that in moon basketball the hoop will be set at 25 feet.
 
Regardless of effort?

The jumps I saw where the astronaut used a 45 degree knee bend should have been about four feet high for a 150 pound astronaut wearing a 120 pound suit.

On earth, a 45 degree knee bend produces a vertical leap of one foot for me. My all out vertical leap is sufficient to smash the back of my hand against a nine foot ceiling (ouch). My vertical leap is about 19 inches. I think Michael Jordan and some athletes have a 30 inch vertical leap.

On the moon, I should have easily exceed the height of all the astronauts jumps wearing a suit that weighed 150 pounds. On the other hand, wearing those same suits on earth would have resulted in a maximum vertical leap of one foot. The conundrum is that on earth, I could not have jumped as high as the astronauts while wearing a suit weighing 150 pounds.
 
A7L suit weighed 200 pounds, used on Apollos 7 to 14.
A7LB suit weighed 212 pounds, used on Apollos 15 to 17.
 
The jumps I saw where the astronaut used a 45 degree knee bend should have been about four feet high for a 150 pound astronaut wearing a 120 pound suit.

Starting from a 45 degree knee bend, it's possible to do anything from standing up straight without your feet leaving the ground, to leaping a couple feet in the air. How do you determine the force exerted based solely on the knee angle?

ETA: And that's without the suit on. I am willing to bet that you wouldn't be able to jump more than a couple inches wearing one of the apollo suits on earth.
 
Last edited:
How do you determine the force exerted based solely on the knee angle?
kneeangleometry of course. I mean you weren't taught that in Jr. High by a particularly strong teacher?
 
Last edited:
The jumps I saw where the astronaut used a 45 degree knee bend should have been about four feet high for a 150 pound astronaut wearing a 120 pound suit.

On earth, a 45 degree knee bend produces a vertical leap of one foot for me. My all out vertical leap is sufficient to smash the back of my hand against a nine foot ceiling (ouch). My vertical leap is about 19 inches. I think Michael Jordan and some athletes have a 30 inch vertical leap.

On the moon, I should have easily exceed the height of all the astronauts jumps wearing a suit that weighed 150 pounds. On the other hand, wearing those same suits on earth would have resulted in a maximum vertical leap of one foot. The conundrum is that on earth, I could not have jumped as high as the astronauts while wearing a suit weighing 150 pounds.

Knee bend (and subsequent flexibility) is certainly one component of potential leap height. As is weight/mass. And so is muscle strength. However, so is effort. That seems to be the component you have not addressed in your estimates: how much effort was being put into the leap.

On Earth, I can bend my knees 45 degrees, and jump pretty high. And I can bend my knees 45 degrees, and jump a couple inches.

Without knowing the actual effort put into the leap, it is impossible to make any estimates on how high a given knee bend SHOULD HAVE allowed the person to leap.

Does that make sense, Justinian2?
 
A casual jump with a 45 degree knee bend - as observed in some of those videos - would produce a one foot jump on earth and a three foot jump on the moon even in suits that weighed as much as the astronaut. If they weighed 120 pounds, then the moon jump would have achieved a height of four feet.

<snip>

My conclusion: All of the moon jumps should have been 3 or more feet high. Some of the jumps should have been five feet high.

You are able to magically calculate the amount of effort put into these jumps... how, exactly?
 
Have you been to area 51? I heard that there are signs that say that you may be shot on site if you enter. That is just rumor, but the truth remains that it is off limits for most.

What does that have to do with the dust kicked up by the rover?

On a seperate point.

Would you risk damage to the suit and PLSS by jumping 5 feet in the air for no reason? They are all that is keeping you alive.
There was much concern and worry when there was a stumble for goodness sake.
 
I answered all those claims even before his post was made. I don't need to spam my answers.

No. You have yet to supply a name for this super-duper hoax-busting movie you claim you saw, or why exactly no one else - i.e., people actually familiar with the topic - should be able to tell a movie from the real thing.

Hint: multiple reasons have been given to you for this.

Hint 2: unlike you, people here have actually made an attempt to identify the movie, and at least one poster made a reasonable guess - all we have to go on since you, who said you would only answer "sourced" arguments, refuse to provide a source - and showed several specific reasons he could distinguish it from the real thing.

You also have failed to provide any evidence for any of your claims, e.g., of actual fakery, or of crashed lunar modules.

You have failed to support your opinion that the AGC was insufficient for the task of landing on and returning from the Moon; you can't say what would be sufficient. You were manifestly unfamiliar with what the AGC did, with how it fit into the overall GN&C scheme, and were wildly wrong on what the underlying technology was at the time. You were off by more than an order of magnitude on the memory, and even after people provided direct answers to you, you still couldn't get it right.

You have also failed to acknowledge your numerous errors of fact and contradictory arguments and what they mean to your claims. The lone exception was your partial retraction of your ludicrous claims about the LLRV/LLTV.

...All of the moon jumps should have been 3 or more feet high.
Absurd. Many jumps were intended to be short jumps. There is nothing that prevents someone from using less effort to make a jump. This is equally as ridiculous as saying that all jumps on Earth must be at least, x inches.

Why is it that hoax believers seem to be so much less observant of how things actually work in the real world?
Some of the jumps should have been five feet high.
And, once again, you fail to acknowledge that exactly such a jump was shown to you. The same sort of jump your "analysis" of the "complete" record (in itself a ridiculous claim) failed to show.

It must be said that your refusal to acknowledge evidence refuting your very first claim, and one to which you keep appealing, smacks of dishonesty.

In the meantime, not only have you avoided dealing with these issues, you have pressed on and made yet more mistakes while continuing to wave your hands about what you think should have happened, without once actually addressing any of the challenges put to you. Please yourself, but please don't think you're fooling anybody either.
 
Would you risk damage to the suit and PLSS by jumping 5 feet in the air for no reason? They are all that is keeping you alive.
There was much concern and worry when there was a stumble for goodness sake.


This has already been pointed out to him by me in this post with this video:

Duke elsewhere describes landing on his PLSS as the only terrifying moment of the whole mission.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16D0hmLt-S0
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom