Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[CDHost]

what lethal acts

The pro-guilt response to this could be summarised as (and I quote no particular person) "(long silence) um (long silence) THEY DID IT ANYWAY THEY'RE GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!". I'm completely serious. We've been asking for some time now for any pro-guilt poster to present even one remotely plausible story for how Knox and Sollecito could possibly have been guilty given the facts we now know and not one of them has managed to do so.

A couple have started out on one, but they rapidly ran aground on the plain fact that Meredith almost certainly died before 21:30 and Knox and Sollecito were almost certainly at home until long after 21:30. There's no way to get around that. It's no longer a matter of whether there's proof beyond reasonable doubt Knox and Sollecito did it, it's a question of whether it's even conceivable that they did do it, and the pro-guilt crowd can't even convincingly argue that it's conceivable.

Yet despite this, not one pro-guilt poster has come forward and said "Well in that case, maybe they didn't do it, I guess I was wrong". Given that several of them are people who've posted at the JREF for some time, that's pretty sad.

The reason why they haven't is, I think, twofold. One, (and there is some hard evidence for this) people who believe Knox are guilty generally aren't the most rational tools in the box to start with. Two, they have immersed themselves in their echo chamber at perugiamurderfile.org where they constantly reinforce each other's falsified factual beliefs about the case, and constantly misrepresent pro-innocence arguments to each other so that they only ever encounter straw man versions of them on their home turf

I've had a similar experience. I've been asking:

• What lethal acts do we know for certain that Amanda Knox performed?
• What lethal acts do we know for certain that Raffaele Sollecito performed?
• What lethal acts do we know for certain that Rudy Guede performed?

and have yet to get an answer. How can we possibly say we know enough to convict people of murder when we can't even answer that basic question?

 

[Magister]

Latest news on the 3 drug dealers

http://www.corrieredellumbria.it/news.asp?id=50

 

[Katody Matrass]

Latest news on the 3 drug dealers

http://www.corrieredellumbria.it/news.asp?id=50

So now he's only among Amanda's phone book contacts, not her sexual contacts. And what happened to that calls before and after the murder?

 

[Magister]

Latest news on the 3 drug dealers

http://www.corrieredellumbria.it/news.asp?id=50

The 3 names shown are those of the defence attorneys!

 

[Chris C]

Kevin --

This sounds like a very strong argument. But dow do we rule out she ate some food when she got home? That the food in her stomach was not from the 6:30 meal but from a later meal?

duodenum = empty

Though if I remember correctly the only food in her small intestines was in the last section, ileum. Guilters claim that Dr. Lalli squeezed the digested food in the duodenum 5 meters through the small intestine without knowing he did it. Thats their explanation for no food in the duodenum.

 

[Chris C]

So now he's only among Amanda's phone book contacts, not her sexual contacts. And what happened to that calls before and after the murder?

Yeah I bet if you went through my cell contacts list you could find 10 people that do drugs, eventhough I dont. Whats more interesting, is if she had a drug dealer on her contact list, why was her roommates the one supplying her with the pot?

 

[Dan O.]

The thing is that drive manufacturers will give you the layouts. They don't consider this a trade secret. I can imagine scrambling stuff like that, but unscrambling it is really not that hard. Especially if you are law enforcement and this is a murder case.

If scrambling the blocks were the only issue, ILE would never have needed to send the drive to a data recovery service. The forensic copy they were trying to do in the first place is a raw block copy. If they could get the data off the original disk in any form they would have used the copy for subsequent work.

Reading through the technical report again, two of the data recovery services mentioned getting "severe bad sectors" while trying to read the disk. The part of the report that mentions the "BIOS" is using this term as a metaphor for the firmware on the drive electronics that stores the parameters for "calibration, writing and rereading." The calibration is an especially tricky bit in the boundary between the digital world of computers and the real analog world that tells the drive how to physically find and track the sectors and can be customized to each disk. These servo loop algorithms would definitely be proprietary.

The best hopes for recovery would be to either extract the parameters from the old chip if possible or try to find a logic board that is a better match to the original or try to recalibrate the drive without wiping any data. This is what I believe Toshiba is offering to do for a mere $10k.

Of course, the problem is worse now that the drive has been opened to the filthy air. Those Italian "experts" don't know when to stop.

 

[CDHost]

Of course, the problem is worse now that the drive has been opened to the filthy air. Those Italian "experts" don't know when to stop.

They opened the drive! Please tell me you are kidding. I know you aren't. Wow this case never ceases to amaze me. Who doesn't know better than not to do that except with the right equipment and in a clean room.

Rose --

I take back my comment on the blog. Maybe they did actually look at the drive heads. God knows what for.

 

[Kaosium]

So now he's only among Amanda's phone book contacts, not her sexual contacts. And what happened to that calls before and after the murder?

I read elsewhere that the 'sexual contact' was merely a police theory at the time of the 'investigation.' As at the time they seem to have been under the impression--or at least wanted to give it to the public--that Amanda Knox had sex with basically every other man in Italy, the fact they might have 'hypothesized' at the time that she sleeping with him is probably just because they had contact over the phone.

This is remarkably readable for Google-translated Italian:

"The investigations that followed the murder of Meredith Kercher has resulted in another case which involved people outside the crime and on which the interest of the police is appointed for sale of drugs. So, three ended up in the courts for possession for the purpose of drug dealing and the defenders during the week Laura Antonini, Angelo Pugliese and Aurelio Frioni have opted for different strategies (respectively, a request for review in continuation with other open positions, a request for settlement, rejected by the court and a fast-track trial ended with a sentence of 2 years and 8 months).

Through frequent contacts by telephone wiretaps would have emerged between two of the defendants, while the third had had contact only with one of them. The young man defended by Frioni, according to a report from the police service, would be among the contents in the mobile telephone contact Amanda Knox. Disposal of drugs would be held in Perugia, especially among students and professionals, but also between trans dedicated to prostitution"

 

[Kaosium]

Yeah I bet if you went through my cell contacts list you could find 10 people that do drugs, eventhough I dont. Whats more interesting, is if she had a drug dealer on her contact list, why was her roommates the one supplying her with the pot?

It might simply be that she didn't actually know him because of drugs at all, but they had another connection. If all she did was occasional pot that she never bought, she'd have no reason to contact him for drugs, but perhaps they shared other interests.

 

[LondonJohn]

It might simply be that she didn't actually know him because of drugs at all, but they had another connection. If all she did was occasional pot that she never bought, she'd have no reason to contact him for drugs, but perhaps they shared other interests.

Exactly. Although some people might believe otherwise, drug dealers often actually have other facets to their lives other than selling drugs. They often know people to whom they do not sell drugs. They are often known socially by people who have no idea that they sell drugs. But hey, let's keep up the "guilt by association" nonsense, shall we....?

 

[Chris C]

Exactly. Although some people might believe otherwise, drug dealers often actually have other facets to their lives other than selling drugs. They often know people to whom they do not sell drugs. They are often known socially by people who have no idea that they sell drugs. But hey, let's keep up the "guilt by association" nonsense, shall we....?

Thats my point, the guilters claim she is a cokehead now because 1 of the guys was on her contact list. Yet we know that filomena was the one that supplied Knox with the weed. Does that not make Filomena a dope dealer if Knox is a cokehead because she knows someone that has coke.
Yet the one thing seems apparent about the whole situation.
Filomena drug supplier,
Meredith dating Pot manufactorer,
Curatolo heroin dealer,
3 guys downstairs are pot manufactorers,
Rudy does drugs and spots a dope dealer outside of Meredith's place night of murder,
Knox and Sollecito users

All this drug use and somehow Knox/Sollecito leave no trace they were in the room.

 

[LondonJohn]

Kevin --

This sounds like a very strong argument. But dow do we rule out she ate some food when she got home? That the food in her stomach was not from the 6:30 meal but from a later meal?

As Chris also said in response to this, the important factor here is that there's no chyme matter in Meredith's entire small intestine, apart from at the very end of the ileum near to the caecum (the joint of the small and large intestine). And this, coupled with the 500ml of contents found in Meredith's stomach, clearly indicates that the meal she ate in the hours prior to her death was still entirely in her stomach. It takes food around six or seven hours to travel to the point in Meredith's ileum where the (very small) amount of matter was found. So this can't be the pizza meal, because 6.30pm + 6/7 hours = 12.30-1.30am, and NOBODY's claiming Meredith died this late. In fact, the matter found at the end of Meredith's ileum is most likely to have been from a small snack lunch she had at 2-3pm before leaving for her English friends' house.

It's possible that she did eat some more food when she returned home. But this is unlikely. It's claimed that there was a piece of mushroom in her oesophagus, which it's claimed she ate upon arriving home. But I believe that the defence is asking for this to be retested as well, since they (and I) believe this is far more likely to be a piece of apple (from the apple crumble) that was regurgitated from Meredith's stomach cardia into her oesophagus when she was attacked: this sort of regurgitation is not uncommon in situations when someone is placed in a high state of fear.

 

[LondonJohn]

I see it's a bit of a problem in some quarters that Knox was no Snow White. And indeed she wasn't. But then again, neither was someone who hooked up with a grow-your-own-dope local (and agreed to tend to his crop), who was experimenting with anal sex, and who rolled in from partying at around 4am on Halloween night with apparently enough alcohol in her system to still have a measurable BAC some 18 hours after getting home. Just sayin'..........

ETA: obviously what I've just written will inevitably be taken completely out of context and twisted around by people with a particular agenda, but tant pis!

 

[Chris C]

As Chris also said in response to this, the important factor here is that there's no chyme matter in Meredith's entire small intestine, apart from at the very end of the ileum near to the caecum (the joint of the small and large intestine). And this, coupled with the 500ml of contents found in Meredith's stomach, clearly indicates that the meal she ate in the hours prior to her death was still entirely in her stomach. It takes food around six or seven hours to travel to the point in Meredith's ileum where the (very small) amount of matter was found. So this can't be the pizza meal, because 6.30pm + 6/7 hours = 12.30-1.30am, and NOBODY's claiming Meredith died this late. In fact, the matter found at the end of Meredith's ileum is most likely to have been from a small snack lunch she had at 2-3pm before leaving for her English friends' house.

It's possible that she did eat some more food when she returned home. But this is unlikely. It's claimed that there was a piece of mushroom in her oesophagus, which it's claimed she ate upon arriving home. But I believe that the defence is asking for this to be retested as well, since they (and I) believe this is far more likely to be a piece of apple (from the apple crumble) that was regurgitated from Meredith's stomach cardia into her oesophagus when she was attacked: this sort of regurgitation is not uncommon in situations when someone is placed in a high state of fear.

The main reason I say they are innocent is because of the prosecution.

1st. They have Rudy giving them a ToD between 10 to 10:30pm. Thats a time that fits within the body temperature ToD and right on the edge of the stomach contents ToD. For the prosecution not to use this ToD against Knox/Sollecito leads me to believe the prosecution has evidence of an alibi pre 10:30pm. It also seems on the appeals the defense is showing this to be true.

2nd. Prosecution finding their witnesses in the newspaper. Apparently that was the only way they could find them. Read the local newspaper. Reminds me of Men in Black when Tommy Lee Jones searches the tabloids for evidence of Alien activity.

3rd. Prosecutions withholding of evidence. It seems every month we hear of something new that was withhold from the defense or hidden. Failure to release data files.

4th. Prosecutions refusal to dispute the stomach contents ToD.

5th. Prosecutions use of the tabloids to spread false evidence and run a smear campaign. Normally when there is a feeding frenzy in the media they tend to get the majority of the information correct. In this case it seems nearly everything the prosecution told the media ended up being disproven.

6th. Prosecutions attacks on the credibility of Knox/Sollecito and then Mignini gets convicted of abuse of office. Whose credibility at this point is worse. The two people that Mignini says are liars, or the one that got convicted of abusing his office.

 

[Dan O.]

They opened the drive! Please tell me you are kidding. I know you aren't. Wow this case never ceases to amaze me. Who doesn't know better than not to do that except with the right equipment and in a clean room.

It pays to pay attention when Charlie posts a link:

The information I have about this is on the FOA site:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/computer_consultant_report.pdf
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/computer_consultant_report_google_translation.doc

The last photo on the last page of the PDF is the guts of Amanda's drive exposed. The second link is just the text from the pdf with the english translation.

 

[billyryan]

Thats my point, the guilters claim she is a cokehead now because 1 of the guys was on her contact list. Yet we know that filomena was the one that supplied Knox with the weed. Does that not make Filomena a dope dealer if Knox is a cokehead because she knows someone that has coke.
Yet the one thing seems apparent about the whole situation.
Filomena drug supplier,
Meredith dating Pot manufactorer,
Curatolo heroin dealer,
3 guys downstairs are pot manufactorers,
Rudy does drugs and spots a dope dealer outside of Meredith's place night of murder,
Knox and Sollecito users

All this drug use and somehow Knox/Sollecito leave no trace they were in the room.

The dope dealer Rudy spotted outside of the cottage on the night of the murder,or was the dope dealer in the driveway to the cottage was he ever identified.Could this dope dealer have been Curatolo or kokomani.with Curatolo dealing could kokomani have been his supplier
Did Kokomani give evidence at Rudy's trial

 

[Chris C]

They opened the drive! Please tell me you are kidding. I know you aren't. Wow this case never ceases to amaze me. Who doesn't know better than not to do that except with the right equipment and in a clean room.

Rose --

I take back my comment on the blog. Maybe they did actually look at the drive heads. God knows what for.

The real question you should be wondering, is what kinda enviroment has it been stored in for 3 years. I wonder if they got a big ole magnet sitting beside it.

 

[Chris C]

The dope dealer Rudy spotted outside of the cottage on the night of the murder,or was the dope dealer in the driveway to the cottage was he ever identified.Could this dope dealer have been Curatolo or kokomani.with Curatolo dealing could kokomani have been his supplier
Did Kokomani give evidence at Rudy's trial

What kinda effort has been made to even identify this guy? A murder happens at an apartment, where pot is being manufactored, a drug dealer parked in the driveway and I have heard of little effort to track this guy down. Oh and lets not forget the super witness is a heroin dealer.

 

[Mary_H]

Kevin --

This sounds like a very strong argument. But dow do we rule out she ate some food when she got home? That the food in her stomach was not from the 6:30 meal but from a later meal?

The belief is Meredith was attacked almost immediately upon arriving home. She seems to have been interrupted in the course of the nightly phone call she made to her mother; she did not remove her wet laundry from the washing machine; and Draca established that the blood on Meredith's jacket shows that she was still wearing it when she was knifed.