Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Chris C]

Meredith would have needed to both depart and arrive with the lamp set in such a way that it would be possible to do so without the lamp tipping over in that case. Very possible.

I have wondered if Rudi Guede grabbed the lamp to look for Meredith's keys in the past. However, Dan O. has pointed out that the overhead light worked so I don't see a reason to do that.

The lamp remains a mystery.

Or the lamp could have gotten knocked off her desk during the struggle. Thats a more likely scenario then Knox/Sollecito forgot the lamp behind the door and was able to squeeze out of the door without noticing and knocking over the lamp and forgetting to plug it in. Everyone assumes that the lamp was brought in Meredith's room after she arrived home that night. Yet there is the chance that Knox only noticed her lamp missing from her room because of the break in. Meredith could have very easily borrowed it earlier in the day.

 

[Draca]

Or the lamp could have gotten knocked off her desk during the struggle. Thats a more likely scenario then Knox/Sollecito forgot the lamp behind the door and was unable to squeeze out of the door without noticing or knocking over the lamp and plugging it in.

That sounds likely. If it was on the desk it would be out of the way while entering or leaving the room for Meredith. If it was knocked off the desk it could have landed behind the door and become unplugged.

 

[Draca]

The lamp was "probably" there because the murderers "probably" knew that the bra clasp would dob them in it, so they "probably" used it to search for the incriminating evidence ....... but "probably" not.

If Meredith placed the lamp on the desk she could have done that a day or two before or even that night for some reason.

Bra clasp? Doubt it. Why would they worry about the bra clasp and not .... the bra. Or for that matter the rest of her clothes, purse, pillow or shoeprints. That theory doesn't make sense.

It also doesn't make sense to borrow the lamp to clean up, when there was no sign of a clean up.

 

[Chris C]

If Meredith placed the lamp on the desk she could have done that a day or two before or even that night for some reason.

Bra clasp? Doubt it. Why would they worry about the bra clasp and not .... the bra. Or for that matter the rest of her clothes, purse, pillow or shoeprints. That theory doesn't make sense.

It also doesn't make sense to borrow the lamp to clean up, when there was no sign of a clean up.

Not only that but there is no evidence of them walking around the room either. So what purpose does entering Meredith's room with a lamp, closing the door behind you, plugging in the lamp and placing it behind the door and then just stand there doing nothing. Actually IMO the lamp rules out the possibility of a clean up because they would have needed the door open for a clean up. The lamp was behind the door.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Or the lamp could have gotten knocked off her desk during the struggle. Thats a more likely scenario then Knox/Sollecito forgot the lamp behind the door and was able to squeeze out of the door without noticing and knocking over the lamp and forgetting to plug it in. Everyone assumes that the lamp was brought in Meredith's room after she arrived home that night. Yet there is the chance that Knox only noticed her lamp missing from her room because of the break in. Meredith could have very easily borrowed it earlier in the day.

I think you're right. The lighting in that room was very poor, a tiny lamp on the wall above the bed. Meredith probably borrowed Amanda's lamp because she wanted a light source for her desk as well as her nightstand, and Amanda was sleeping at Raffaele's place. It got knocked on the floor during the struggle and landed in the arc of the swinging door. When the door was broken open the next day, the lamp got pushed over to the far wall and the plug was torn out of the socket.

 

[Malkmus]

If Raffaele and Amanda are guilty of murdering Meredith and locking her inside the room with her own key, then if they needed to get back in to retrieve a lamp they had left in there, they would have just unlocked the door and gotten it. Why would they try to break it down?
Wouldn't the easy solution for them, if they did indeed leave the lamp in there and couldn't get back in, just be to lie and say Meredith borrowed it earlier on Friday?

 

[colonelhall]

O.K. let's say that Knox couldn't have squeezed through the door with the lamp in the way. Who did?

Yes, they could easily have gone back to get the lamp, but that pre-supposes that they remembered that it was in there.

It's a mystery!

 

[Chris C]

I think you're right. The lighting in that room was very poor, a tiny lamp on the wall above the bed. Meredith probably borrowed Amanda's lamp because she wanted a light source for her desk as well as her nightstand, and Amanda was sleeping at Raffaele's place. It got knocked on the floor during the struggle and landed in the arc of the swinging door. When the door was broken open the next day, the lamp got pushed over to the far wall and the plug was torn out of the socket.

Actually Charlie, I'm saying the lamp was there when Rudy opened the door to leave. During the struggle the door closed and the lamp fell behind the door. We know the door was pulled open because there is blood on the inside door handle.
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/meredith_door04.jpg

We know that IF the lamp was used for a clean up or search after the murder, the door would have been left opened, because they would have had to clean the door handle to leave the room and an open door is extra light. Since the lamp was behind the door we know it was not used in a clean up or search of the room. When they kicked the door open the next day they just assumed it was them that broke the lamp. Where as it could have already been broken before the kicking in of the door.

The lamp by the night stand was clearly plugged in prior to the murder and wasn't used in the clean up. So she didn't have a lamp on her desk. Where it happens her computer was sitting at.

Whats even more absurd when considering Knox's lamp was used as part of a clean up is considering that the door would have had to been closed and the lamp plugged in and placed in the pathway of the door opening. If the lamp was sitting there then the only place it would give light to clean up would be behind the door. If you tried to clean up any other spot in the room with the lamp sitting there, whoever was doing the cleaning would have a problem with their body blocking the light from the lamp. Plus their body would have to be on the floor to use that lighting. Why not just set the lamp on the desk to use it for cleaning. There is no reason for them to set the light behind the door as part of a clean up.

 

[Malkmus]

Yes, they could easily have gone back to get the lamp, but that pre-supposes that they remembered that it was in there.

It's a mystery!

No mystery. The door was cracked from where Raf had tried to break down the door, so we know they didn't have the key, which means they didn't lock the door because Rudy did, which also negates the notion of any sort of clean-up occurring.

 

[Draca]

Amanda's Lamp

I think you're right. The lighting in that room was very poor, a tiny lamp on the wall above the bed. Meredith probably borrowed Amanda's lamp because she wanted a light source for her desk as well as her nightstand, and Amanda was sleeping at Raffaele's place. It got knocked on the floor during the struggle and landed in the arc of the swinging door. When the door was broken open the next day, the lamp got pushed over to the far wall and the plug was torn out of the socket.

I think this sounds right. This is the best theory I've heard so far. I think Chris is on to something. We also know the desk was bumped into because of the chair shoved under the desk with the torn piece of newspaper under the leg. The lamp could have fallen off of the desk at that time.


Torn newspaper under chair
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=184303051594174&set=a.124466634244483.15396.106344459390034&pid=539903&id=106344459390034


Perhaps the lamp was at area F
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=184304421594037&set=a.124466634244483.15396.106344459390034&pid=539906&id=106344459390034#!/photo.php?fbid=184304421594037&set=a.124466634244483.15396.106344459390034&pid=539906&id=106344459390034


The plug in area
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=184304424927370&set=a.124466634244483.15396.106344459390034&pid=539907&id=106344459390034

 

[Draca]

O.K. let's say that Knox couldn't have squeezed through the door with the lamp in the way. Who did?

Yes, they could easily have gone back to get the lamp, but that pre-supposes that they remembered that it was in there.

It's a mystery!

The lamp wouldn't be in the way if Meredith had placed it on her desk. The plug in area would not be in the way. There would be no reason for someone to squeeze by anything.

 

[Malkmus]

I think this sounds right. This is the best theory I've heard so far. I think Chris is on to something. We also know the desk was bumped into because of the chair shoved under the desk with the torn piece of newspaper under the leg. The lamp could have fallen off of the desk at that time.

The lamp probably fell off the desk when Raf tried to kick in the door.

 

[Chris C]

The lamp probably fell off the desk when Raf tried to kick in the door.

I think they would have heard that. Plus thats a long way to fall straight down. Plus the position of Meredith's laptop is cracked is odd. Its not pushed all the way closed. I've pushed my laptop down to minimize the light before without closing it, but thats not pushed all the way down.

 

[Draca]

The lamp probably fell off the desk when Raf tried to kick in the door.

I don't think so. He would have heard it for one. I think it probably fell off of the desk while Meredith was struggling with Rudi near the desk. It looks like the desk was slammed into rather hard during the struggle. It fell behind the door. Rudy later opened the door to get towels and leave. Either the fall or opening the door could have caused it to become unplugged.

 

[Malkmus]

I think they would have heard that. Plus thats a long way to fall straight down.

I don't think we can state that they didn't hear the sound of something hitting the floor just because it wasn't mentioned. Also, it might have fallen when the police knocked down the door when there were several people crammed into the hallway all talking over each other. The sound of the lamp hitting the floor and being pushed to its final position would have been greatly overshadowed by the door suddenly swinging open and revealing the bloody crime scene.

 

[Draca]

Plus the position of Meredith's laptop is cracked is odd. Its not pushed all the way closed. I've pushed my laptop down to minimize the light before without closing it, but thats not pushed all the way down.

Great observation Chris. The laptop was probably left up and fell part way down during the same struggle jostling the desk.

 

[Malkmus]

I don't think so. He would have heard it for one. I think it probably fell off of the desk while Meredith was struggling with Rudi near the desk. It looks like the desk was slammed into rather hard during the struggle. It fell behind the door. Rudy later opened the door to get towels and leave. Either the fall or opening the door could have caused it to become unplugged.

Yeah that's a possibility I didn't think of.

 

[Draca]

I don't think we can state that they didn't hear the sound of something hitting the floor just because it wasn't mentioned. Also, it might have fallen when the police knocked down the door when there were several people crammed into the hallway all talking over each other. The sound of the lamp hitting the floor and being pushed to its final position would have been greatly overshadowed by the door suddenly swinging open and revealing the bloody crime scene.

If the lamp was on the desk the cord wouldn't have been in the way of opening the door. There isn't a reason it would fall from the door being forced open.

 

[Chris C]

I don't think we can state that they didn't hear the sound of something hitting the floor just because it wasn't mentioned. Also, it might have fallen when the police knocked down the door when there were several people crammed into the hallway all talking over each other. The sound of the lamp hitting the floor and being pushed to its final position would have been greatly overshadowed by the door suddenly swinging open and revealing the bloody crime scene.

I don't think enough force could be generated against the desk by kicking in the door to shake the desk which in turn would shake the lamp off the desk. Plus nothing else appears to have been shaken loose off the wall.

I'm not saying its impossible though. I have seen pictures fall from walls when breaking in doors.

 

[Malkmus]

I don't think enough force could be generated against the desk by kicking in the door to shake the desk which in turn would shake the lamp off the desk. Plus nothing else appears to have been shaken loose off the wall.

I'm not saying its impossible though. I have seen pictures fall from walls when breaking in doors.

No, I think you guys are right on this. My assumption was that if the lamp was placed near the edge of the desk that the vibrations of the wall from repeatedly bashing at the door would have knocked it off, but since nothing fell off the wall I think your theory makes more sense.