I'm not making up my own language, some skeptics are. I challenge you to find any definition of the word "difficulty" that has the word "mistake" in any of its definitions.
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Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.
- Thread starter DOC
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I'm not making up my own language, some skeptics are. I challenge you to find any definition of the word "difficulty" that has the word "mistake" in any of its definitions.
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
And as I've said, there is none so blind as he who will not see.
You simply refuse point-blank to acknowledge the very real contradictions that are pointed out to you or offer weasel words and other non-sequitur guff and call it an explanation. That you're even fooling yourself with it is extraordinary, so don't believe for a second that anyone else is taken in by your shenanigans.
Your entire history of posting in this thread is one huge argument from incredulity and ignorance, made hugely comical by the fact that you feel compelled to skite about it.
It wouldn't matter if the sad collection of fables and superstitions was written in l33t or lolspeak, DOC. It's drivel from cover to cover in any language. Even hieroglyphs couldn't make it presentable.
And in relative terms, your beloved RCC is shrinking at what should be, to you, an alarming rate, although of course you won't actually be alarmed because you're in denial about it, just like everything else.
Yea, but there must be some main reasons. I just asking what are the 2 or 3 main reasons why supposedly what I said made someone deconvert. If they can't answer that question it makes the claim suspect.
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
Piffle.
Skeptics know very well that "difficulty" and "mistake" have nothing like the same meaning. YOU are the one attempting to dishonestly substitute the former for the latter in a pathetic attempt to give your failed arguments a veneer of credibility. As usual, your subterfuge is so transparent that a child could see through it.
Lothian
should be banned
The Catholic Church counts new members when they are baptised and subtracts those who formally asked to be removed. Most don't go to the effort of asking to be removed, they just stop believing or attending. What evidence do you have that the active believers is increasing. The long standing seminary near me closed as they can't get enough people willing to be priests. The catholic religion like all of Christianity is dying in the educated world.
Lothian
should be banned
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
- You are completely unable to provide a skerrick of evidence that the New Testament writers told the truth.
- You present information from sources that are suspect at best and outright lies at worse and persist in doing so no matter how many times it's pointed out to you, thus making you every bit as dishonest as your sources, if not more so.
- You are incapable of posting anything that doesn't contain a logical fallacy. This, of course, reflects very poorly on the veracity of your professed beliefs. Again, your refusal to acknowledge these fallacies and your choice to continue committing them again and again is nothing less than morally bankrupt.
Are you sure 2 or 3 is enough? I have hundreds more.
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
I couldn't agree more.
Of course he'll just come back and refer to some piece of dross that he's previously posted and pretend that he's provided evidence and that therefore the claim that his nauseatingly bad apologetics are enough to drive people away from his superstitious beliefs must be false.
Well of course I cannot speak for those who were driven to doubt by DOC's posting. But for me it is unlikely to be the lack of evidence presented: faith is not in that arena so far as I can see.
I was not a believer in the first place: but I have a lot of time for some of those who are religious and I have learned much from some. If it is true that anyone has been turned off religion by DOC I would venture to suggest it would be due to the same things which cause me not to respect what I have seen here: the main thing which appals me is the complete lack of respect for his own (and everybody else's) intelligence. It is a sad sight to watch someone who is unable to admit error and who will say anything at all in defense of his position no matter how twisted and illogical: no matter how dishonest.
This is not due to DOC being a christian: it is due to something else. I don't know what that something else is but I see the same phenomenon on other topics. I do not see it very often (though more on the net than in RL). Whatever it is due to one consequence of it is that it appears to remove all self respect from the person who has this mindset: and all sense of shame
I was not a believer in the first place: but I have a lot of time for some of those who are religious and I have learned much from some. If it is true that anyone has been turned off religion by DOC I would venture to suggest it would be due to the same things which cause me not to respect what I have seen here: the main thing which appals me is the complete lack of respect for his own (and everybody else's) intelligence. It is a sad sight to watch someone who is unable to admit error and who will say anything at all in defense of his position no matter how twisted and illogical: no matter how dishonest.
This is not due to DOC being a christian: it is due to something else. I don't know what that something else is but I see the same phenomenon on other topics. I do not see it very often (though more on the net than in RL). Whatever it is due to one consequence of it is that it appears to remove all self respect from the person who has this mindset: and all sense of shame
Mojo
Mostly harmless
No, you stated that you asked for the specific posts that made them "deconvert", and implied that because they hadn't done this they were not being honest about the conversion. In fact, at first you asked for a specific post.
You are moving the goalposts.
Personally, I imagine that they experienced something like Bishop O'Neill's Road to Damascus moment with Father Dougal in Tentacles of Doom; not the result of a specific comment that Dougal had made, but a conclusion eventually arrived at as a result of the gradual accumulation of nonsense.
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Mojo
Mostly harmless
Your argument that the contradictions in Genesis arose as a result of Moses using different pieces of parchment and forgetting what he had written on the earlier pieces, if true, makes it obvious that there are mistakes. Calling a mistake a "difficulty" does not mean that it is not also a mistake. In fact, of course, the contradictions are only a "difficulty" if you assume that the Bible is the word of an infallible being. If you accept that the Bible is the product of the imaginations of fallible beings then, while the contradictions remain, the "difficulty" vanishes.
It isn't our fault that you have used a foolish argument that relies on the author of the Bible, supposedly the word of an omnipotent being, having been unable to keep His story straight.
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ddt
Mafia Penguin
In another thread, I posted some figures about the rigorous downsizing in the Dutch RCC - reducing the number of parishes by about 80%. Only 5% of those counted as catholic show up every Sunday in church anyhow.
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
Akhenaten
Heretic Pharaoh
I'm not much of a spokesman for the unborn-again (or whatever the term is) either, but I ought to have spoken more clearly.
The lack of evidence is not of itself the major problem here, for as you quite rightly point out, these are supposed to be matters of faith.
The conniptions, if that's not too strong a word, caused by DOC's postings result rather from his baseless claims that there is historical and scientific evidence for the stuff he purports to believe. The ill-feeling is exacerbated by the dishonest and incompetent manner in which he goes about presenting this material.
Put another way; if DOC were presenting evidence for why Darwin was telling the truth about natural selection then it's a fair bet that he'd manage to disavail a few people of their belief in that.
Likewise, I've always been a fine upstanding heathen myself, but not, I hope, lacking too much respect for the beliefs of others.
DOC's arguments, however, remind me of those one might hear from a corrupt politician or an unprincipled lawyer, and they're contemptible, regardless of their subject.
I can't even regard DOC as being a Christian any more. The rubbish he posts is so far out of step with what I know of other members of that faith that I simply have to place him in that general class of malheureuses sans frontiers that you seem to be describing.
Dave Rogers put his finger on it pretty well, I thought, in this post.
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X
Slide Rulez 4 Life
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hilighting mine
As I recall, you got schooled pretty badly when you asked that last time...
As zooterkin pointed out, it was a body-of-work thing.
hilighting mine
And now you are lying. You quite clearly asked for posts, not reasons.
As far as reasons go, I think Akhenaten has nailed it.
It's a mixture of:
- your inability to provide evidence (coupled with your fractal misunderstanding of the concept),
- the flagrant dishonesty you continuously fall back on to attempt to support your claims whenever they have been proved wrong and
- all the actual knowledge, research and history brought forward by those in this thread who actually know something about the history of your religion (I'm frankly amazed that you, who professes to be such a good Christian and keeps proselytizing, know so damn little about your own religion).
Where's c.j.23?
He's the only Christian in this thread who has provided any real evidence for the claims in the OP, and been able to support his arguments with logic and evidence.
You certainly have not managed that, DOC. Not on the first page, not on this page, not on any of the pages in-between. Despite what you may fondly wish to believe, you've done your cause no good at all. I suppose it comes from blindly following the morons of apologetics, and not having enough actual understanding of your religion to even know that the likes of Muncaster, Geisler, Turek, and every other apologist whose arguments you've used are idiots of the truest breeding.
Go back and read c.j.'s posts. See if you can understand why he has earned respect and you only derision. Maybe then you'll understand why people have left the fold after reading this thread.
Maybe then you'll understand what Fiona, Akhentaten, Mojo, Zooterkin, Lothian and myself are saying. Heck, maybe you'll even learn something. But first you'd have to let go of your cherished, but wrong, beliefs.
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dafydd
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Same here in Belgium.The local priest here is looking after three parishes because there are hardly any trainee priests.Stand-ins take the masses when he's not there.He's new,last year they caught his predecessor with child porn on his computer.One day the world will be free from the curse of religion,not in my lifetime,but one day.
dafydd
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Theologians call them the Synoptic gospels.What a cheek!
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