Homosexuality is a choice

I don't know which one is more ironic: 1) The fact that you have ignored my scenario no matter how many hundreds of times I reposted it in this thread, yet you think it's perfectly okay to copy/paste it, change a few words and address it back at me (As if that was gonna make your argument any stronger), or 2) The fact that your pathetic version of my own scenario, does nothing but continue to prove my point: That sexual orientations and desires cannot be chosen. You can't choose to be a homosexual and you can't choose to be a pedophile. So pointing a gun at me and forcing me to have sex with an underage girl will not accomplish me changing my sexual inclinations. Forcing me at gunpoint to have sex with a man will not accomplish me changing my sexual inclinations. Sexual orientation cannot be consciously chosen.

Yes, I agree partially. It is quite difficult to a particular individual control it sexual orientation. But an individual is not absent of choice to engange in sexual conduct or change it life style.

By the way, thank you. I was quite curious to understand the argument behind your repetitive rethoric.

Did you completely miss how many times we've told you that masturbation is a natural act that does not have the purpose of natural fertilization? Your argument that sexual activities that don't have the purpose of natural fertilization are therefore unnatural is null.

Masturbation is unnatural because do not use the genitals in an appropriate manner.

I have already said that:

I said that homosexual conduct is not natural because do not use the appropriate organs of reproduction. The use of "heterosexuals" organs between an infant and an adult is not appropriate because nature did not produced an infant penis to penetrate an adult vagina, as nature did not produced a small vagina to receive a large penis. Therefore, sexual conduct between two individuals with the inappropriate use if its respective organs (including masturbation, fellatio and sodomy) is completely unnatural, even if is observed occasionally in the cycle of life of 0.05% of the living species species documented.

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Sex between a heterosexual couple can also transmit different sexual diseases. Sorry but try with a better one next time.

Where did I said that heterosexual conduct cannot transmit disease?

Your understanding and handling of this subject is the one of a 5 year old.

Say the person who thinks that is perfectly natural to a five years old girl's vagina be ripped off by an adult penis...

It is my guess that you would be not so brave to confirm such definition of "natural" in a speech to an audience of parents.

Oh... Before I forgot: Sterility is usual in nature. In your definitons, steritily is natural or unnatural?
 
All right. Which are the definitions of "attraction/arousal"?



So husbands that embrace the "gay" behaviour after a long marriage were originally "heterosexuals". From a long time ago men always had the freedom to choose to engange in a relationship.

That is the so called patriarchy which the feminists whine about.



I am not here to be correct. This is not a classroom. This is a forum in the cyberspace to debate.

Just one user had presented good examples of what is "unnatural" to dispute my definition.

SnakeToungue, have you ever tried yourself to change your sexual orientation?
have you ever tried to feel sexually attracted by the same sex?
if not, how do you know you can choose your sexual orientation?
 
I am really exhausted to explain again and again and again...

If you wish to keep the dispute of "natural" and "unnatural", present examples of what is "unnatural".

You pontificated, but you did not answer the challenges put to you.

Once again, you refuse to dispute direct questions and challenges to your opinion.

As to an example of "unnatural", since you either are not seeing the subtly or out-and-out ignoring it, I'll give it to you again step by step.

1. Since "unnatural" can be defined as:
lacking human qualities or sympathies; monstrous; inhuman: an obsessive and unnatural hatred.
(please note that the sentence "an obsessive and unnatural hatred" is an example in the use of the word, and not part of the definition)

2. You define "natural" as
natural
adjective
1 existing in or derived from nature; not made or caused by humankind

Then any example you give as "natural" can also be an example of "unnatural".

For instance, you example of this:

The Animal Homosexuality Myth

by Luiz Sérgio Solimeo

(...)

Like bonobos, other animals will mount another of the same sex and engage in seemingly "homosexual" behavior, although their motivation may differ. Dogs, for example, usually do so to express dominance. Cesar Ades, ethologist and professor of psychology at the University of S‹o Paulo, Brazil, explains, "When two males mate, what is present is a demonstration of power, not sex."[8]

Jacque Lynn Schultz, ASPCA Animal Sciences Director of Special Projects, explains further:

Usually, an un-neutered male dog will mount another male dog as a display of social dominance--in other words, as a way of letting the other dog know who's boss. While not as frequent, a female dog may mount for the same reason.[9]

In which you yourself bolded:

"When two males mate, what is present is a demonstration of power, not sex."

That, according to your definition, is "natural".

So it is "natural" for an adult male to mate, i.e. HAVE SEX WITH, a younger male when that younger male is trying to defy the adult male.

BY YOUR DEFINITION THAT IS NATURAL.

Further, the only purpose of organs is to procreate, and only heterosexual sex is "natural", it is natural for an adult male to impregnate a twelve year old girl because the sex that occurred was heterosexual and lead to procreation.

BY YOUR DEFINITION THAT IS NATURAL.

To keep going, since the only natural use of sex is procreation, then it is not natural for a couple (and in this example, it doesn't matter if the couple is female-female, or male-male or even female-male because the outcome will always be the same), who is paired for life has an argument, and one person of that couple wants to express affection, bonding and forgiveness to the other person by have sex with that person without any desire to procreate; even go as far as to take measure so procreation doesn't happen.

BY YOUR DEFINITION THAT IS NOT NATURAL.

You want me to give you an example of "unnatural", fine:

It is unnatural for a male to mate, i.e. HAVE SEX WITH, a younger male when that younger male is trying to defy the adult male.

It is unnatural for an adult male to impregnate a twelve year old girl even though the sex that occurred was heterosexual and lead to procreation.

Here's an example of natural:

A couple (and in this example, it doesn't matter if the couple is female-female, or male-male or even female-male, because the outcome will always be the same), who is paired for life has an argument, and one person of that couple wants to express affection, bonding and forgiveness to the other person by have sex with that person without any desire to procreate; even go as far as to take measure so procreation doesn't happen.

See? Any example you give as "natural" can be thrown right back as "unnatural".

Oh, and, by the way, I've answered your "sterile" question.

Natural. Happens to a lot living things. Especially when a living thing gets old.

I put it here again because it seems like you missed ignored it.
 
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Say the person who thinks that is perfectly natural to a five years old girl's vagina be ripped off by an adult penis...

You know what? We can play that game too. Since YOU brought up infants and children less than six years old, I can assume that you feel that it's okay to have an adult penis rip the vagina of a ten year old or older girl.

By your silence, we can also assume that you feel it's natural for a thirteen year old or older boy have sex with an adult female.

Oh, I can go further: since you only mention "ripping vagina of infants", I guess it's "natural" for an adult female to yank on a penis an infant male.

You haven't said anything about that not being natural, so you must think that way!!!!!

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See what I did there?

Stop playing those "I am assuming that you mean this and you should be ashamed" games. They do not support your cause and they get you in deep trouble.
 
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As other have mentioned, asexual. They're probably rather rare, but they exist.

All right.

Here we diverge. These people will tell you they were always gay (homosexual orientation) but out of ignorance or a desire to conform acted in a heterosexual fashion, the same way a person with brown or grey hair dyes it to a different colour.

This do not represent evidence of those people have a determined innate sexual identity. Those man had CONSENTED to have a relationship with the opposite gender, even leading to procreation. That, by definition, is a strong characteristic of heterosexual behaviour.

Gay is a definition of sexual behaviour, not gender identity. It is self evident that they were not always "gay" in the sexual behaviour.

heterosexual

adjective
(of a person) sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex.
involving or characterized by sexual attraction between people of the opposite sex:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0862540#m_en_gb0862540
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I'm afraid I don't understand what you're trying to say.

I am saying they are not straight, they are bisexual.

But they are forced to, primarily by homophobic bigots who won't let them live with or marry a person of their preferred gender. The forcing can be cultural, legal, or both. In Canada, homosexual sex was a criminal act until 1969. In some countries one can be executed for having sex with a person of the same gender. And those laws exist because of people who think it's not natural, and so they try to stamp it out by passing laws making homosexual acts illegal and by blocking attempts to reform the law to same-sex marriages.

Fallacious argument...

Could you present evidence of an event where those men were physically or legally forced by homophobic bigots to accept a long term marriage with women without they consent?

Herein we disagree. Homosexuality may not be inheritable (same as things like congenital birth defects--cleft palates, missing limbs, spina bifida, hydrocephalus, etc) but the evidence is strongly in favour of it being congenital (that is, present at birth.)

How it happens to be present at birth, if it is evidence that the human behaviour is strongly shaped by the environment?
 
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I asked you examples of what is "unnatural", not what was wrong with my definitions.

Could you provide examples of "unnatural" events? Could you provide examples of "unnatural" things in nature, including human behaviour or physiology?
 
And the response will be 'lalalallalalallalala'. His glasses of invicibility are welded to his head and he can't see anything but 'homosexuality is unnatural'. Thus my statement about 'dust' and 'wind'. He should read some So-crates.. dude...

Do not loose the faith.

You made a good exemplification.
 
SnakeToungue, have you ever tried yourself to change your sexual orientation?
have you ever tried to feel sexually attracted by the same sex?
if not, how do you know you can choose your sexual orientation?

No. no. I do not know how I can choose.
 
You know what? We can play that game too. Since YOU brought up infants and children less than six years old, I can assume that you feel that it's okay to have an adult penis rip the vagina of a ten year old or older girl.

By your silence, we can also assume that you feel it's natural for a thirteen year old or older boy have sex with an adult female.

Oh, I can go further: since you only mention "ripping vagina of infants", I guess it's "natural" for an adult female to yank on a penis an infant male.

You haven't said anything about that not being natural, so you must think that way!!!!!

--

See what I did there?

Stop playing those "I am assuming that you mean this and you should be ashamed" games. They do not support your cause and they get you in deep trouble.

Yes, I see what you did there: an interesting assumption of what I think without the endorsement of my consent or my agreement.
 
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So would you agree that ones sexual orientation (including homosexuality) is not a choice?

Yes, it is not a matter of a single choice. It is a behaviour which can change during the time in accordance with the social environment, not only by a single choice.
 
Yes, it is not a matter of a single choice. It is a behaviour which can change during the time in accordance with the social environment, not only by a single choice.

i think the only choices involved are actually if you have sex with the gender you feel attracted to or not and if you tell it the people around you. But most probably you will not choose to feel attracted to a gender. So saying it is not a single choice is kinda misleading, it is also not something you become because of several choices.
 
i think the only choices involved are actually if you have sex with the gender you feel attracted to or not and if you tell it the people around you. But most probably you will not choose to feel attracted to a gender. So saying it is not a single choice is kinda misleading, it is also not something you become because of several choices.


Yes, I would not really choose, it cannot really happens with a matter of choice.

It is a chance that several choices will lead to a change. Take for example a hypothetical experience of a group of men with strong sexual urge living in extreme conditions without contact with woman during a long time. In this hypothetical experience the men could choose engage in homosexual behaviour - even they were originally heterosexuals - just to appease the sexual libido.

What those men become if they choose appease the sexual urge with another men? Heterosexuals? Homosexuals? Bisexuals?
 
Anyway... Look like you did not explained where exactly homosexuality fits in the theory of evolution.

Oh yes, you fail.

You mean I actually MISSED all those explanations I gave you ?

No, I am done with the dispute of "natural" and "unnatural"

I will take that to mean that you are retracting your claim that homosexuality is unnatural, since you have yet to define that word properly.

Look like you cannot understand the nature's purpose to our biological morphology.

There is no purpose in nature. This isn't Lamarckism or creationism. Things are used the way they're used. Penises are used for reproduction AND for other things. I'm sorry if that bothers you but it's a fact of life, natural or otherwise.

I am done with you.

So far you have adressed none of my points. I would say you haven't even started with me.
 
Yes, I would not really choose, it cannot really happens with a matter of choice.

It is a chance that several choices will lead to a change. Take for example a hypothetical experience of a group of men with strong sexual urge living in extreme conditions without contact with woman during a long time. In this hypothetical experience the men could choose engage in homosexual behaviour - even they were originally heterosexuals - just to appease the sexual libido.

What those men become if they choose appease the sexual urge with another men? Heterosexuals? Homosexuals? Bisexuals?

This is an extreme case. They would be heterosexuals engaging in sex out of the circumstances. It would more than likely not change their sexual identities at all. But remember that sexuality isn't THIS or THAT. While I have a deeper attraction to males, I am also attracted to females. What? You mean, 'sexuality' isn't a dichotomy!? Are you attracted to the boobs and twat or to the person? I don't see a guy and say, "Wow, he must have a huge c-ck! That's why I'm gay! I'm gonna go have sex with every man!" You think that, don't you? That is your simplistic view of homosexuality: hetero is love, homo is sex. You must be Christian, maybe Protestant, since they are typically very focused on genitalia. I could care less. I'm interested in the person and not what is between their thighs...
 
I asked you examples of what is "unnatural", not what was wrong with my definitions.

Could you provide examples of "unnatural" events? Could you provide examples of "unnatural" things in nature, including human behaviour or physiology?

I gave you three. I'm sorry if you can't defend your examples nor see what was unnatural about mine....
 
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