Birthright Citizenship

[cwalner]

though..I will admit that these are all Engineers, and the USA did make immigration much easier for these folks.

Well, we can safely disregard your experience as it is not representative of the overall situation for people wanting to immigrate here.

If all of the immigrants that you know belong to a class that the US government has specifically made exceptions for because they are especially desired than that is not an accurate representation of the immigration process most people face.

 

[Shalamar]

As a permanent resident, I got in the easy way. I used a fiance Visa, and Married an American. Though it took a few months before I received my Green Card and could work.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

Getting sponsored by someone (or by a company) is one of the faster and trouble-free routes to legal immigration to the United States, as well as the United States clearing a large number more visas for people in higher-skill labor pools. Now compare that to the population of people you are saying shouldn't have rights. Note the difference in economic livelihood. Consider that in relation to your stance on immigration policy.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Getting sponsored by someone (or by a company) is one of the faster and trouble-free routes to legal immigration to the United States, as well as the United States clearing a large number more visas for people in higher-skill labor pools. Now compare that to the population of people you are saying shouldn't have rights. Note the difference in economic livelihood. Consider that in relation to your stance on immigration policy.

Maybe we should require the growers to sponsor their migrant workers. Nah, that would never work. You can't treat these people like humans.

 

[cwalner]

Maybe we should require the growers to sponsor their migrant workers. Nah, that would never work. You can't treat these people like humans.

As someone already pointed out, this would never happen because we want cheap food. Anything that increases the cost of the labor for farmers will increase the costs for produce in the supermarket.

So many people that gripe about immigration and illegal aliens don't realize how much we depend upon the cheap labor pool that they provide.

 

[Thunder]

I wonder if the authors of the 14th Amendment imagined a situation where millions of people were violating America's borders and immigration policies, by crossing our southern border illegally and abusing their vacation and work visas.

I wonder if the authors imagined that their efforts would be used by illegal aliens to gain citizenship in the USA.

I wonder how the authors would have written their amendment, had they known the future.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Getting sponsored by someone (or by a company) is one of the faster and trouble-free routes to legal immigration to the United States, as well as the United States clearing a large number more visas for people in higher-skill labor pools. Now compare that to the population of people you are saying shouldn't have rights. Note the difference in economic livelihood. Consider that in relation to your stance on immigration policy.

Good point. I wonder if Thunder will address it?

I wonder if the authors of the 14th Amendment imagined a situation where millions of people were violating America's borders and immigration policies, by crossing our southern border illegally and abusing their vacation and work visas.

I wonder if the authors imagined that their efforts would be used by illegal aliens to gain citizenship in the USA.

I wonder how the authors would have written their amendment, had they known the future.

Nope, apparently not.

 

[hgc]

I wonder if the authors of the 14th Amendment imagined a situation where millions of people were violating America's borders and immigration policies, by crossing our southern border illegally and abusing their vacation and work visas.

I wonder if the authors imagined that their efforts would be used by illegal aliens to gain citizenship in the USA.

I wonder how the authors would have written their amendment, had they known the future.

The first thing they might ask would be how big a problem birthright citizenship is actually causing. I've been asking that, in this very thread, of an advocate of changing the 14th amendment, and can't get an answer. It's a curious situation.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

I wonder if the authors of the 14th Amendment imagined a situation where millions of people were violating America's borders and immigration policies, by crossing our southern border illegally and abusing their vacation and work visas.

I wonder if the authors imagined that their efforts would be used by illegal aliens to gain citizenship in the USA.

I wonder how the authors would have written their amendment, had they known the future.

Did you know that many of the arguments used today against immigration were used against the Irish/Polish/etc. in the early 20th century? Please note that at that time, the people that warranted the passage of the Emergency Quota Act and the Immigration Act of 1924 were also largely of substandard economic status. Why do you think that is?

Edit: Please note that the immigration policies of today that you say are being "violated" are nothing like the immigration policies in place at the time of the writing of the 14th amendment.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

The first thing they might ask would be how big a problem birthright citizenship is actually causing. I've been asking that, in this very thread, of an advocate of changing the 14th amendment, and can't get an answer. It's a curious situation.

Then you have to look at the costs of changing the 14th amendment.
What will the benifits be, if any?
What will be the costs?

The biggest arguement for changing the amendment is the cost of illegals receiving benefits. yet, will revoking birthright citizenship actually lower those costs? Or would the children of illegal aliens still be elegible for those benifits under the Equal Protection clause.

Plyler v Doe

Use of the phrase "within its jurisdiction" thus does not detract from, but rather confirms, the understanding that the protection of the Fourteenth Amendment extends to anyone, citizen or stranger, who is subject to the laws of a State, and reaches into every corner of a State's territory. That a person's initial entry into a State, or into the United States, was unlawful, and that he may for that reason be expelled, cannot negate the simple fact of his presence within the State's territorial perimeter. Given such presence, he is subject to the full range of obligations imposed by the State's civil and criminal laws. And until he leaves the jurisdiction -- either voluntarily, or involuntarily in accordance with the Constitution and laws of the United States -- he is entitled to the equal protection of the laws that a State may choose to establish.

 

[cwalner]

Did you know that many of the arguments used today against immigration were used against the Irish/Polish/etc. in the early 20th century? Please note that at that time, the people that warranted the passage of the Emergency Quota Act and the Immigration Act of 1924 were also largely of substandard economic status. Why do you think that is?

Yeah, but those are Thunder's ancestors, so that is obviously a completely different situation.

We apparantly have come a long way from "Bring me your tired, your poor, your hungry. Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

I personally find it reprehensible when the grandchildren of such huddled masses, once they have made a comfortable life, decide that they no longer want more huddled masses infringing on that comfort.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

I personally find it reprehensible when the grandchildren of such huddled masses, once they have made a comfortable life, decide that they no longer want more huddled masses infringing on that comfort.

Cop your own huddle dude.

 

[cwalner]

Cop your own huddle dude.

I do that every night, er wait, what were we talking about again.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I wonder if the authors imagined that their efforts would be used by illegal aliens to gain citizenship in the USA.

Please stop saying this until you can prove that it is true.

Please.

This whole thread is based on this one statement that appears to have no basis in fact. So, until you can substantiate that this is happening and to what extent, please stop acting like it is a national tragedy.

Thanks.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Cop your own huddle dude.

You really juiced his piglet!

Well, done . . .

 

[AlBell]

OT: A sad indictment of the state of science, engineering and technology education in this country.

More a sad commentary on what Mgmt wants to pay for those jobs.

[/derail]

 

[Thunder]

Please stop saying this until you can prove that it is true.

until I can prove WHAT is true?

that illegals use their children to become immigration sponsors?

as far as I am concerned, the child of an illegal immigrant born in the USA, is still illegal.

giving automatic citizenship to the American-born children of illegals, makes a mockery of the 14th Amendment.

 

[Arus808]

I am an American. If my child is born in Russia when I am vacationing in Russia, I want my child to be an American citizen, not a Russian citizen.

As an American, any child that is born to you while outside of the country is considered a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN of this United States of America.

McCain's issue on this was cleared when CONGRESS recognized that his birth was in Panama (military base) when he ran for POTUS.


What is nice is that the US recognized DUAL citizenship (even triple) and cares less about your other citizenship to other countries (if they also allow dual citizenship there). All they care about, is if you are a natural born, should you run for the office of POTUS.


Your child, if born in RUSSIA, cannot obtain Russian citizenship (they follow jus sanguinis) - since upon being born to (a) American parent(s), he/she has already obtained a citizenship. Russian law doesn't allow for that.

Why the hell would I want my child to automatically become a citizen of Libya, South Africa, Japan, or Indonesia, just cause we are there on vacation for a week?

Again, it depends on the CITIZENSHIP laws of that country. And yes they would be citizens if they follow Jus sanguis law like the US does. However, that doesn't mean that having that citizenship IMPACTS Their lives in anyway

My friend is a Russian citizen by birth, American by naturalization. He hasn't been to RUSSIA since he was 10 years old. No Russian agents have come to his home, to bust it down to drag him back to his "mother land".

Birthright citizenship for children of non-citizens is laughable.

which separates the US from the backwards thinking of the rest of the world.

 

[Thunder]

which separates the US from the backwards thinking of the rest of the world.

when everyone is backwards except for you, it says something...about you.




...Mods: I mean the general "you".

 

[Arus808]

when everyone is backwards except for you, it says something...about you.

YOU really should read why the 14th Amendment was adopted, to allow for citizenship to ALL persons born here.

and don't rely on the "to only give the slaves citizenship" canard that 14th Amendment deniers like to use. There is a long history about citizenship issues that came up during the ADOPTION of the Constitution that ran for 100 years until the 14th amendment was ratified.

Yes its backwards thinking to not allow for birthright citizenship. It creates second class people, and puts them into a class they do not DESERVE to be in, right from birth. The SLAVES were treated this way.