How WTC 7 was pulled down

[Alferd_Packer]

The point is, the background noise was such a cacophony that the sounds of those massive columns being blown free were unheard in the mix.
. . . The fact that those distinct sounds, which had to exist, were not distinguishable in available recordings, means that the unheard force that caused them to be blown could very well have been an explosion.

Explosives don't just produce sounds, they produce an overpressure wave as well. (AKA a shockwave).

Overpressure waves are quite distinctive and woould have been felt by everyone in the vicinity.

 

[triforcharity]

Not to mention also showed up on the seismographs.

 

[tsig]

Why am I not surprised at that unthoughtful response.

MM

Why am I not surprised at that unthoughtful response.

 

[tsig]

I take it your check is in the mail?

MM

I think Gage got it and used it for a junket to Rio.

 

[tsig]

the shills are winning

I can also opine as to why, if there is really nothing fishy, or strong, why so many people on an obscure internet forum
are championing the Official Story and are so actively engaged in discouraging any further 9/11 investigations.

MM

As you've been told, we're here to make you waste your time and not do any real investigation. It's working well don't you think?

 

[Edx]

I can also opine as to why, if there is really nothing fishy, or strong, why so many people on an obscure internet forum
are championing the Official Story and are so actively engaged in discouraging any further 9/11 investigations.

MM

Firstly, Im sure there is a reason for more investigations into the collapses. But that is to add to the large body of work already amassed on the collapses.

Secondly, don't flatter yourself. Just because there are forums on the internet that are engaged in debating Creationists doesnt mean we/they are all secretly scared Creationism may have a point and we just want to stay atheist and find a reason not to believe. When you realise why people still like debating religion and Creationism in particular you'll realise why we do it here.

I guess we're all just amazed you can believe the things you do in the face of all reason and evidence.

 

[Dave Rogers]

I can also opine as to why, if there is really nothing fishy, or strong, why so many people on an obscure internet forum
are championing the Official Story

Because nobody engaged in any activity of any significance is even listening to you. It's only on this obscure internet forum that anyone can even be bothered.

and are so actively engaged in discouraging any further 9/11 investigations.

And discouraging them remarkably successfully for such an obscure forum. Maybe you should consider the inherent incompatibility between these two statements of yours, and consider possible means of reconciling them.

Dave

 

[Miragememories]

"You totally miss the point.

IT COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED SILENTLY!

The point is, the background noise was such a cacophony that the sounds of those massive columns being blown free were unheard in the mix.

They were blown a great a distance even if you don't agree with what caused it.

The fact that those distinct sounds, which had to exist, were not distinguishable in available recordings, means that the unheard force that caused them to be blown could very well have been an explosion.

Unless you believe multi-ton steel columns can be ripped free and blown great distances very quietly?"

"Then you disagree with Gage because he clearly says that they used thermite/thermate because it was quiet as a response to someone saying that these explosions would have been clearly heard everywhere in the area.

And he is right that thermite is quiet. But Gage also says heavy steel was flung around. That's always going to be extraordinarily loud. You cant have it both ways."

And you can't either.

"Apparently it happened so quietly it wasnt picked up by seismographs or any video despite several cameras being practically beneath the towers. Why is that?"

The sounds were there but no one heard or recorded them because of the collapse cacophony. Whether it be the sound of steel being ripped free and thrown hundreds of feet by the force of the collapse alone, or whether there were explosive blasts obviously making sound and ripping steel columns free and tossing them hundreds of feet. The individuals sounds were simply not hearable.

MM

 

[Dave Rogers]

The sounds were there but no one heard or recorded them because of the collapse cacophony.

Causality is such a bitch, but the explosives in a controlled demolition go off before the collapse, because they cause the collapse. And, in general, they're louder than the collapse. And most WTC CD theories claim that there were far more explosives than in a normal CD, so they would have been even louder than that. And yet for some reason we still didn't hear them. The only rational reason for that is that they never happened.

This is not exactly difficult stuff.

Dave

 

[brazenlilraisin]

Edited by Tricky: 

Edited for rule 12.

 

[triforcharity]

And you can't either.



The sounds were there but no one heard or recorded them because of the collapse cacophony. Whether it be the sound of steel being ripped free and thrown hundreds of feet by the force of the collapse alone, or whether there were explosive blasts obviously making sound and ripping steel columns free and tossing them hundreds of feet. The individuals sounds were simply not hearable.

MM

How loud was the collapse? How loud would these explosions have to be to fling a steel column many feet?

 

[Edx]

And he is right that thermite is quiet. But Gage also says heavy steel was flung around. That's always going to be extraordinarily loud. You cant have it both ways."

And you can't either.

Eh?

I can't have it either what way?

The sounds were there but no one heard or recorded them because of the collapse cacophony. Whether it be the sound of steel being ripped free and thrown hundreds of feet by the force of the collapse alone, or whether there were explosive blasts obviously making sound and ripping steel columns free and tossing them hundreds of feet. The individuals sounds were simply not hearable.

MM

You appear to have ignored everything I said, again.

The sound of the building collapsing will be loud, of course it will. Even the sound of a steel crane collapsing was described as an explosion, like a bomb, by witness'.

However the sound of high explosives going off would easily be hundreds of times louder than any sound the collapse made.

This is how loud normal demolitions are.. please watch it this time.



As loud as this is, what you're talking about would have to be hundreds of times more powerful. You claim explosives were pulverising the building and propelling heavy steel around. No explosive demolition is trying to do this and certainly not demolition such as the one above. All they are is intensive enough to cut critical connections. which would be loud enough but that's not your claim.

You are actually saying that the sound of the building collapsing masked the sound of the explosives? Its amazing you zero understanding of how explosives and sound work.

You're also still arent admitting that you think Gage is wrong. He says the demolition was quiet and you said it was loud. Gage says they used thermite because its quiet and wouldnt have used loud explosives because that would give away their project. Wheras you just believe explosives arent that loud, sorry MM, they are, explosives are always louder the more intense they are.

 

[Miragememories]

"And he is right that thermite is quiet. But Gage also says heavy steel was flung around. That's always going to be extraordinarily loud. You cant have it both ways."

"And you can't either."

"Eh? I can't have it either what way?"

"The sounds were there but no one heard or recorded them because of the collapse cacophony. Whether it be the sound of steel being ripped free and thrown hundreds of feet by the force of the collapse alone, or whether there were explosive blasts obviously making sound and ripping steel columns free and tossing them hundreds of feet. The individuals sounds were simply not hearable."

"You appear to have ignored everything I said, again...

However the sound of high explosives going off would easily be hundreds of times louder than any sound the collapse made. "

What I ignore are statements that have nothing supporting them as true.

Do you have any idea how ridiculous your claim is?

The sound energy is directly related to the amount of kinetic energy being released. The collapse of the world's tallest buildings most certainly released far more kinetic energy than what individual explosives targeting internal columns would have produced.

And you claim the opposite. That those explosions would be hundreds of times more energetic than the collapsing towers.

Again, you wonder why I ignore what you say?

"You claim explosives were pulverising the building and propelling heavy steel around. No explosive demolition is trying to do this and certainly not demolition such as the one above. All they are is intensive enough to cut critical connections. which would be loud enough but that's not your claim.

You are actually saying that the sound of the building collapsing masked the sound of the explosives? Its amazing you zero understanding of how explosives and sound work.

You're also still arent admitting that you think Gage is wrong. He says the demolition was quiet and you said it was loud. Gage says they used thermite because its quiet and wouldnt have used loud explosives because that would give away their project. Wheras you just believe explosives arent that loud, sorry MM, they are, explosives are always louder the more intense they are."

I made no such claim. Source please.

What I said was; "The sounds were there but no one heard or recorded them because of the collapse cacophony. Whether it be the sound of steel being ripped free and thrown hundreds of feet by the force of the collapse alone, or whether there were explosive blasts obviously making sound and ripping steel columns free and tossing them hundreds of feet. The individuals sounds were simply not hearable."

I never said there were explosives. My point was that once the collapse initiation began, the cacophony of noise would make it impossible to identify them if they were there.

With regard to WTC 7, there is at least one video that was part of the recently released batch that the NIST released under FOIA and a threatened law suit, that does have a noticeable explosion just prior to the collapse of the East Penthouse.

Lawyer, James Gourley, the founder of the International Center for 9/11 Studies and the man who acquire the 5 terrabytes of video from the NIST, refers to that WTC 7 explosion in this YouTube video;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9EwRm2M1MY

When I get time, I will locate the actual link if you haven't already seen and heard it?

I believe this is the link unless James Gourley can provide a better one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mOY52DmAYI

The explosion can be heard almost at the very start of the video and is not as audible as I had hoped. It is there though. If I get time, I'll enhance that audio track to bring it out more.

MM

 

[brazenlilraisin]

I never said there were explosives. My point was that once the collapse initiation began, the cacophony of noise would make it impossible to identify them if they were there.


MM

Not only is this argument nonsensical (collapse starts, then blasts go off? ) it's just plain wrong. Look at any CD video. The blasts are many, many times louder than the dull roar of the subsequent collapse. Find us a video of a CD where the reverse is true.

 

[triforcharity]

The sound energy is directly related to the amount of kinetic energy being released. The collapse of the world's tallest buildings most certainly released far more kinetic energy than what individual explosives targeting internal columns would have produced.

And you claim the opposite. That those explosions would be hundreds of times more energetic than the collapsing towers.
MM

No, that is not it at all.

Do you understand how loud an explosive capable of cutting a core column would be? Somewhere in the area of 140 db.

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html



That would be equivalant to standing 50m away from a jet engine at full blast.

A rock concert is about 100-110 db.

Are you starting to understand how loud 140 db is?

At about 125 db. it is unconfortable. At 140 db, permanant damage can occur, and it very painful.

But yet, even the videos shot from just 10 m from the base of the towers, this audio is not picked up.

 

[Miragememories]

No, that is not it at all.

Do you understand how loud an explosive capable of cutting a core column would be? Somewhere in the area of 140 db.

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html



That would be equivalant to standing 50m away from a jet engine at full blast.

A rock concert is about 100-110 db.

Are you starting to understand how loud 140 db is?

At about 125 db. it is unconfortable. At 140 db, permanant damage can occur, and it very painful.

But yet, even the videos shot from just 10 m from the base of the towers, this audio is not picked up.

This is a WTC 7 thread!

Crank up the volume and listen to the left channel on this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mOY52DmAYI

MM

 

[brazenlilraisin]

Sounds awfully like a mic that lacks a wind screen to me. Whatever it was certainly didn't in any way draw the attention of the fellow chattering in the background, sup with that?

 

[triforcharity]

Yepo, those guys in the background certainly heard the collapse, but yet, NOT the supposed "BOOM!" in the building? Horse****.

See above.

And yes, the 140 db. volume applies to 7WTC there MM.

 

[dafydd]

Feel free to do your own investigation. We have been telling you and the rest of the TM for years to do your own.

Just pay for it yourself. Maybe ask Richard for some of that $75,000 he makes per year......

They could collect it from the mobs of people who are constantly thronging the streets and clamoring for a new investigation.

 

[triforcharity]

They could collect it from the mobs of people who are constantly thronging the streets and clamoring for a new investigation.

LOL!! I see what you did there!!

This would be the take.

$14.92

Two half-eaten hotdogs

1/2 oz. total pocket lint.

1 bottle of cheap plastic bottle vodka