Split Thread Common sense is innate

[Quiproquo]

I stood in architect's office, several of watching low quality streaming video as it came in. One of us, I can't remember who, looked at the fire and said "that's going to come down".

Do you have a point, caller? Are you claiming that lay opinion and perceived common sense are to be preferred to analysis and professional opinion?

... to common sense and a growing body of analysis and professional opinion, yes I do.

 

[Quiproquo]

One of us, I can't remember who, looked at the fire and said "that's going to come down".

Yes I believe I had that thought too, because that is what would happen in a Hollywood movie.

 

[Dave Rogers]

You probably have inferred by know I am also suspicious about the the events surrounding the political assassinations of JFK and RFK in the 1960s.

I'm guessing you also suspect that Roosevelt had foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbor attacks, that the Second Gulf of Tonkin Incident was deliberately staged, that the position of the Lusitania was given away deliberately to U-boats, and that FEMA has set up a number of extermination camps across the USA. What's your stance on reptilian shapeshifting lizards and the cause of death of the Princess of Wales?

Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

Which is why engineers (and architects) are required to study structures at university level. What the heck do the CT mob think the BSc (Hons) is for, just turning up each day???

Absolutely. Frankly, I think the whole lot of you should be sacked, and we should let philosophers design all our tall buildings.

Dave

 

[Quiproquo]

If you're referring to what some might call "genetic memory", then yes. Babies innately know to trust their mothers because such trust is coded into our genes.

Knowledge of collapse mechanics is not coded into our genes.

No I am not referring to "genetic memory," 1337m. I am referring to the ability of infants to learn language. This demonstrates the existence of some type of innate reasoning ability.

 

[Architect]

Absolutely. Frankly, I think the whole lot of you should be sacked, and we should let philosophers design all our tall buildings.

Dave

No, no, no. Theoretical physicists.

 

[Architect]

... to common sense and a growing body of analysis and professional opinion, yes I do.

I see. And what "growing" technical analysis and professional opinion are you referring to, that I should attach greater weight to it than (say) Arup?

 

[Pardalis]

... to common sense and a growing body of analysis and professional opinion, yes I do.

*snickers*

 

[tsig]

Absolutely. Frankly, I think the whole lot of you should be sacked, and we should let philosophers design all our tall buildings.

Dave

First they'd have to define "tall" and "buildings".

 

[Quiproquo]

If you're referring to what some might call "genetic memory", then yes. Babies innately know to trust their mothers because such trust is coded into our genes.

It's funny. No one would contend that we possess arms and hands as a consequence of "experience" yet we have them, do we not?

Yet it is usually asserted there would be no innate "human nature" proper to the structures of the human mind.

Conclusion: your assertions are a symptom of empirical speculation.

 

[1337m4n]

No I am not referring to "genetic memory," 1337m. I am referring to the ability of infants to learn language. This demonstrates the existence of some type of innate reasoning ability.

They're one and the same.

And no matter what you call it, it still doesn't give you the ability to properly understand the collapse mechanics of tall buildings.

Babies do some pretty stupid things. They stuff things into their mouths without regard for what it is. They put plastic bags over their heads. They jam forks into electrical sockets. The mere fact of the necessity of a child safety industry proves that this "innate reasoning" you speak of is far from foolproof in the modern day world.

Genetic knowledge exists to protect you from predators, disease, natural hazards, and food scarcity. It does not and cannot grant you the ability to analyze tall building collapses. I don't know why this point is so difficult for you to grasp.

Put it this way: if you needed surgery, would you trust a doctor with zero medical knowledge or experience, but with a great deal of "common sense"? Would you trust this man to cut your body open and tinker with your internal organs, based solely on the fact that he demonstrates excellent "common sense"?

 

[Mr. Skinny]

They're one and the same.

And no matter what you call it, it still doesn't give you the ability to properly understand the collapse mechanics of tall buildings.

Babies do some pretty stupid things. They stuff things into their mouths without regard for what it is. They put plastic bags over their heads. They jam forks into electrical sockets. The mere fact of the necessity of a child safety industry proves that this "innate reasoning" you speak of is far from foolproof in the modern day world.

Genetic knowledge exists to protect you from predators, disease, natural hazards, and food scarcity. It does not and cannot grant you the ability to analyze tall building collapses. I don't know why this point is so difficult for you to grasp.

Put it this way: if you needed surgery, would you trust a doctor with zero medical knowledge or experience, but with a great deal of "common sense"? Would you trust this man to cut your body open and tinker with your internal organs, based solely on the fact that he demonstrates excellent "common sense"?

I was going to comment on this earlier but held back.

If people were born with inate "common sense" I'd have been out of work for the last 30+ year. I'm a safety engineer, and I spend my life dealing with people's lack of "common sense". I'm not talking about Joe Six-Pack on the foundry floor (though I've dealt with them). I'm talking about hundred of people with PhD's and Master's degrees who constantly do unsafe, sometimes mindless, really, really stupid things.

Quidproquo's "inate common sense" has provided me with a paid off house, a paid off car, and allowed me to raise three children to adulthood.

Three cheers for "common sense"!

 

[Pantaz]

I had the distinct feeling I was watching a series B Hollywood movie on September 11, 2001.

What do you suppose was the feeling by all of the people with family and friends inside the WTC, the Pentagon, and the airplanes?

 

[excaza]

What do you suppose was the feeling by all of the people with family and friends inside the WTC, the Pentagon, and the airplanes?

Why the family and friends? How about the people inside them?

 

[grandmastershek]

No. Common sense is innate.

Sure it is. Its "common sense" to not touch a burning stove yet children do it all the time. Stop using failed avoidances of evidence or logic to support fantasy.

 

[grandmastershek]

But hasn't Hollywood taught us anything?

Yes

-Even fools can get a following.

-Logic and evidence is often ignored over a compelling story.

Yes I believe I had that thought too, because that is what would happen in a Hollywood movie.

As opposed to a clandestine govt operation where super secret high tech explosives were planted unseen, resulting in the operation being blown wide open by some meddling kids & a nutty professor. Yeah, thats in no way convoluted.

This thread amounts to one man trying to avoid justifying his cult's BS in any objective fashion.

 

[Travis]

Common sense is found in every sentient being. But the problem is that common sense is nothing more than our own prejudices about how we think things work.

At one time it was "common sense" that when crops failed it was because a witch had cursed them.

At one time it was "common sense" that bleeding made you healthier.

At one time it was "common sense" that things fall to the ground because objects have a desire to be either under or over other things.

So this "common sense" thing has failed us time and time again as we march forward and learn new things. I therefore wouldn't put too much stock in it.

 

[The Platypus]

From what I see, 911 CTers have their "sense", common or otherwise, all screwed up.

 

[NutCracker]

You do not believe in common sense?

Translation: "My case rests on arguments from incredulity. Please do not burst my bubble of delusions."

And no, I don't believe that people are born with an accurate model of the real world in their brains. Heck, that is why in the real world things we constructed sometimes fail: even the people who studied how the real world works and rely on the accumulated knowledge of others who have done the same find that the real world sometimes behave in ways they did not anticipate.

 

[Sabretooth]

You are smart.

However, Developmental psychology does not use the term innate anymore (I forget which one they use, but I know they make the distinction).

So I still contend. Common sense is innate.

Common sense is learned through life experience.

Innate means you are born with an unconditioned reflex.

Your statement is wrong.