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Rand Paul supporter tries to 'curb' a Moveon.org member

Andf now the silly little wussie boy Eric Cantor has had a man arrested for not leaving one of his public evenets. There is already video up on YT of the cops twisting the man's arms around and accusing him of resisting arrest (as though the arrest was legitimate in the first place.)
 
Regardless of her background, the assault on her was EXCESSIVE and UNCALLED for. Any denial of this is DENIAL OF REALITY

Who here has denied that her being stepped on wasn't excessive? Or uncalled for? I certainly didn't. But I don't agree that taking her down to the ground was excessive or uncalled for given her behavior. For the record, equally divorced from reality are the claims that she wasn't a threat or that her actions didn't constitute assault and criminal mischief. Where do YOU stand on THAT?
 
Show me where the Rand Paul camp confirms Profitt was at the event working security.

Maybe, maybe not. Guess we'll both find out at the trial, if there is one. :D

The police are not visible in the video of the incident. You have no idea what they were doing or where they were prior to their intervention.

Well there were police at the event and various news sources quoted people saying they told the police about Valle's presence (not necessarily by name) prior to the incident. That being the case, I'd be surprised if none of the police kept an eye on her because that would almost border on incompetence.

Originally Posted by BeAChooser
As for the tape, you are simply wrong. Take another look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=yiLeud-sxrM at about 1:13 - 1:20 minutes and you will see that people were clearly standing behind yellow tape. There definitely were efforts to keep the crowd back and the red suited wacko tried to circumvent those efforts.

That's not video of the incident.

Nevertheless, it shows that there was yellow tape in use to keep the crowd away from where Rand Paul departed the car and walked up towards his debate. And one other thing is certain. Valle was the only person to run in front of the car so obviously she was doing what others weren't doing … i.e., trying to circumvent the security efforts separating Rand Paul from the crowd. Something was certainly keeping the space open between the car and all the photographers that can be seen in front of the car at that point. My bet is tape. And security guards. And perhaps a little more common sense than Valle showed. :D

Originally Posted by BeAChooser
What video shows Profitt standing in a crowd of people with signs? Link and cite the time to look.

It's in the very first post of this thread.

False. That video only shows Profitt stepping on the woman again and again and again and again (afterall, this is the liberal media :rolleyes:) without ever showing what she or Profitt did before that. It does not show Profitt "standing in a crowd of people with signs". Do you have video of where he was before the incident began? I bet he was standing near security because after all, as you indicated, he was "the Bourbon County coordinator" for Rand Paul's campaign. I'd be very surprised if a county coordinator wasn't involved in security for an event like this.

You quoted Valle imparting hearsay.

So now you don't believe Valle either. I see. :D

Relaying that someone else overheard

Not just "someone" else. The MoveOn.org associate that was at the event with her. She said he said it. Are you claiming that MoveOn.org people routinely lie now? :D

The video in the OP demonstrates otherwise. It clearly shows both Profitt and his accomplice wrestling with Valle

It does NOT show Profitt wrestling Valle to the ground like you claimed three times in post #209. If this case is so cut and dry, why does your side … you, Valle, and the liberal media … keep having to misrepresent, distort and lie about what happened? It's stupid when the video clearly shows the dishonesty. It certainly won't play well in court. Not if the jury has a lick of sense and I suspect Kentucky juries might have a lick more sense than … say … a California jury. ;)
 
Who here has denied that her being stepped on wasn't excessive? Or uncalled for? I certainly didn't. But I don't agree that taking her down to the ground was excessive or uncalled for given her behavior. For the record, equally divorced from reality are the claims that she wasn't a threat or that her actions didn't constitute assault and criminal mischief. Where do YOU stand on THAT?

What she did was clearly not intended to do the nutbar congress critter wannabe physical hjarm. What his thug supporters did was clearly intended to do her harm, and was no more sensible from the standpoint of preventing harm to another.

Republicans are getting too fond of hurting people, like that idiot who smacked a 23-year old woman who was picketting snivelling Dino Rossi's headquarters in Washington State.
 
It does NOT show Profitt wrestling Valle to the ground like you claimed three times in post #209. If this case is so cut and dry, why does your side … you, Valle, and the liberal media … keep having to misrepresent, distort and lie about what happened? It's stupid when the video clearly shows the dishonesty. It certainly won't play well in court. Not if the jury has a lick of sense and I suspect Kentucky juries might have a lick more sense than … say … a California jury. ;)


You're right. It shows a group of the mouth-breathing bubbas mobbing her and shoving her down.
 
Who here has denied that her being stepped on wasn't excessive? Or uncalled for? I certainly didn't. But I don't agree that taking her down to the ground was excessive or uncalled for given her behavior. For the record, equally divorced from reality are the claims that she wasn't a threat or that her actions didn't constitute assault and criminal mischief. Where do YOU stand on THAT?

Mischief...perhaps...i could see a case. Assault? Not really. I do not even know if she touched RP. I am munfamiliar with the US definition (legal) for assault as it relates to contact or the threat of such.

TAM:)
 
False. That video only shows Profitt stepping on the woman again and again and again and again (afterall, this is the liberal media :rolleyes:)

Fox? You think Fox is the "liberal" media? The John Birch society called, they think you need to pull back to the left a little.
 
Mischief...perhaps...i could see a case. Assault? Not really. I do not even know if she touched RP. I am munfamiliar with the US definition (legal) for assault as it relates to contact or the threat of such.

TAM:)

It might pass for Assault 3 in Washington State. VERY minor misdemeanor.

So, the goon squad decided they had justification for what would in other circumstances be a felony. Aren't these Republicans and teabaggers a bunch of mental giants?
 
BeAChooser: You're making too many assumptions to address them all. So lets just address the larger fallacies.

LOL! Meaning that you've given up on trying to defend your assertions that Valle just waved the sign in front of the car window, that what she did with the sign wasn't intentional, that a small person is no threat, that she was injured, and that she's not a terrorist or associated with terrorists.

Fox News is the most popular media outlet. 49% of Americans polled trust Fox. … snip … There is no leftist media takeover.

By that, I assume you mean no media bias. Well you are wrong. There is indeed a left biased mainstream media. And here are some sources to substantiate that:

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/rich-n...ubt-about-it-all-fox-news-tipping-obama-s-way

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...a/americans_see_liberal_media_bias_on_tv_news

http://www.mediaresearch.org/biasbasics/biasbasics3.asp

Furthermore, you are misreading that poll. It only indicate the percent of people who "trust" Fox News, not how many trust it in comparison to other news programs or actually watch it. The poll shows that other stations also get relatively high "trust" ratings. CNN gets 39%. NBC gets 35%. CBS and ABC both get about 30%. Sure, Fox News now has the largest share, but if you look at the raw numbers, Fox still only captures a portion of the total audience. As recent as 2005, FNC was only getting 31% of the total audience between FNC, NBC, CBS and ABC. Throw the audience that watches PBS and CNN for news in and that share is even smaller. And every one of those competitors are much farther to the left than Fox or polls show the public in general to be on issue after issue. Furthermore, the Fox network itself does not carry any national, regularly scheduled nightly "news" programming other than Fox News Sunday. All those other networks do have nightly news. And morning news programs. Which is why they, not Fox News, remain the primary news source for the majority of Americans.

And when it comes to printed media there is no Fox News to even compete with. Sure there are conservative papers but every one of the major papers (NY Times, LA Times, Washington Post, etc) is more than a little left leaning. And a lot of people get their understanding of the news from those sources.

Or look at the internet. All the major browsers show a distinct leftward tilt. Take a look at what Yahoo, AOL, or whatever put as their "news" headlines day to day. More often than not it's what Obama or the democrats like or don't like. Go back and look at how they reported the Presidential campaign. Compare the reporting of Obama and McCain, both in terms of amount, content and spin. I think you will see there was a pronounced bias towards Obama. And where do you think Yahoo gets many of its news stories? From CBS, as well as ABC, with which it negotiated deals. Both CBS and ABC have a pronounced leftwing bias. Or from the AP and Reuters, which also have a left bias.

Don't be silly and claim there is no media bias, bookitty.

You keep saying that people are defending Lauren Valle. They are not.

Don't be silly. Of course they are defending her when they ignore anything she did to provoke the incident.

The phrase "They said they were here to do crowd control." is hearsay. It is impossible to know if it was actually uttered

LOL! Then you are either calling Valle or her MoveOn.org accomplice a liar. That's certainly what I think but I'm surprised to hear you say it. :D

What you are suggesting is that the gathering of a specific political party is no place for anyone with a dissenting view.

FALSE. That's nothing but a dishonest strawman on your part. You continue to show your true colors. I haven't once suggested or implied I have a problem with legitimate dissent. In fact, if any group is against legitimate dissent, it's been the democrats, with their Godwin sound bites, name calling, and their lies and hyperbole about the Tea Party, Chamber of Commerce, Fox News, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and O'Reilly.

Valle crossed the line in terms of what is legitimate dissent when she put the occupants of that car and others at risk of serious injury. Have you stopped and considered how danger her shoving that sign in a moving SUV was, bookitty? How did she know the driver would react calmly or be able to tell that the only thing being shoved through the window was a sign? Many of these drivers have some training in what to do if their car is attacked. That driver could easily have decided that a serious threat was being made against Rand Paul, in which case he might have reacted by trying to get the vehicle out of the area. And that could have easily have resulted in injuries to the crowd. Or the driver could have been distracted and simply swerved into the crowd? What would have happened had the sign brushed the driver himself? Valle clearly wasn't thinking about that. Sorry, but I think your side is viewing Valle's actions much too leniently. If you think I'm wrong, then let's see you dress up in hoodie, a wig and run at the next vehicle carrying a top political contender and shove something through the window. You might not be as lucky as Valle was.

Instead of working towards a solution that welcomes and supports people with other opinions in the grand old American tradition, you condone violence against them.

Oh stop with the silly hyperbole. In the posts above, I explained very clearly what I condone and you simply have dishonestly misrepresented what I said. In doing so, you've said more about yourself than me.
 
LOL! Well you have to admit that's a rather liberal-leaning presentation of what happened. Perhaps that should make you wonder if your characterization of Fox all that accurate? :D
Harry Truman once said:"I don't give anybody hell. I tell the truth and they think it's hell."

The right wingfringenuts have their panties in a bunch because some news outlets are reality-based, and reality is not the GOP's friend.
 

Those links are either from 2005 and before and do not take into account the more recent slant of Fox, or they are from a source too biased to be taken as evidence, or the link is broken.

Bit disingenuous.
 
How much?
It's hard to say at this point. The news media is hunting down every incident now. It could be this is the usual amount but it's getting more attention.

Yet historically, we can look back and see times when this kind of thing grew to dangerous levels. The McCarthy Era (right wing paranoia), the Civil Rights movement (a necessary but violent struggle) , the Vietnam War protests (the one time the left side of the isle was getting more violent though I do believe the government killed more people than any protest groups did), The Aryan Nations skinhead random racial violence and murder (more isolated), and, internationally, of course, more deadly national movements developed, some under not so different circumstances.


At some point those dangerous movements that were developing insidiously became serious problems. Many many more no doubt, never amounted to more than the news media creating the commodity they sell.

What worries me in this case is how many nut job candidates are serious contenders in the coming election. That translates to a lot of nut job followers.
 
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265. (1) A person commits an assault when

... snip ...

(b) he attempts or threatens, by an act or a gesture, to apply force to another person, if he has, or causes that other person to believe on reasonable grounds that he has, present ability to effect his purpose;

Well ... maybe, in the case of Valle. And unlike the Kentucky statute I quoted, actual injury is not required to constitute assault. If there is injury, then the maximum penalty goes up from 5 years to 10 years.
 
Those links are either from 2005 and before and do not take into account the more recent slant of Fox, or they are from a source too biased to be taken as evidence, or the link is broken.

Sorry about the broken Rassmussen link. So let's replace that one first with these:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...a/americans_see_liberal_media_bias_on_tv_news

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/rasmussen-reports-media-bias-a-bigger-problem-in-politics-than-money/

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2010...blem-in-politics-than-big-contributions-1.php

http://bigjournalism.com/fross/2010...too-much-influence-over-government-decisions/

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11912.html

Second, your viewing those sources (like the UCLA study) as biased without explaining why just shows your own bias.

And third, 2005 is not that long ago and don't think I can't provide even more recent sources that demonstrate media bias:

http://www.aim.org/aim-report/aim-report-new-evidence-of-liberal-media-bias-november-a/

http://futurenews.wordpress.com/200...ren’t-old-media-leaders-defending-themselves/

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2010/sep/12/liberal-media-bias-is-real-revealing/

:D
 
Maybe, maybe not. Guess we'll both find out at the trial, if there is one.

Walking back your "They were security" claim I see. I guess that's what happens when you get caught telling unsubstantiated lies.

Well there were police at the event and various news sources quoted people saying they told the police about Valle's presence (not necessarily by name) prior to the incident. That being the case, I'd be surprised if none of the police kept an eye on her because that would almost border on incompetence.

Another walk back. You have no idea where the police were or what they were doing during the incident, so your previous claims to the contrary are proven unfounded.

Nevertheless, it shows that there was yellow tape in use to keep the crowd away from where Rand Paul departed the car and walked up towards his debate. And one other thing is certain. Valle was the only person to run in front of the car so obviously she was doing what others weren't doing … i.e., trying to circumvent the security efforts separating Rand Paul from the crowd. Something was certainly keeping the space open between the car and all the photographers that can be seen in front of the car at that point. My bet is tape. And security guards. And perhaps a little more common sense than Valle showed.

Your original claim was that the video showed Tim Profitt and his accomplice being on the candidate-side of the cordoned off area, thus proving they were "crowd control". This is not shown in the video. You lied. Again.

False. That video only shows Profitt stepping on the woman again and again and again and again (afterall, this is the liberal media :rolleyes:) without ever showing what she or Profitt did before that. It does not show Profitt "standing in a crowd of people with signs".

And while Profitt is stomping on a defenseless woman, there are several people all around him holding Rand Paul signs. This would be "the crowd" to which I referred.

Do you have video of where he was before the incident began? I bet he was standing near security because after all, as you indicated, he was "the Bourbon County coordinator" for Rand Paul's campaign. I'd be very surprised if a county coordinator wasn't involved in security for an event like this.

Your speculation is meaningless. Show me where the Rand Paul camp confirms Profitt was at the event working security.

Not just "someone" else. The MoveOn.org associate that was at the event with her. She said he said it. Are you claiming that MoveOn.org people routinely lie now?

I'm claiming that relaying that someone else overheard a non-specific third party claim to be crowd control is not evidence that any one specific person actually was crowd control.

Show me where the Rand Paul camp confirms Profitt was at the event working security.

It does NOT show Profitt wrestling Valle to the ground like you claimed three times in post #209.

It shows Profitt and his accomplice wrestling with Valle, and then Valle being taken to the ground. It's perfectly reasonable to claim Profitt wrestled her to the ground, even if he didn't actually go down himself.

If you want to claim a small victory by splitting semantic hairs, feel free.

If this case is so cut and dry, why does your side … you, Valle, and the liberal media … keep having to misrepresent, distort and lie about what happened?

Your mock indignation is laughable in the face of the multiple dubious claims you've made regarding this incident.

Find me evidence that Profitt was at the event working security.

Find me evidence that Profitt was on the candidate-side of the cordonned off area during the incident.

Find me evidence that Profitt didn't know Valle was a woman. (Oh that's right, you already got proven wrong on that one.)

Find me evidence that the police stood by and purposely let Profitt subdue Valle.

Once you've provided evidence for all your misrepresentations, distortions, and lies, then you can come back here and whine about the misrepresentations, distortions, and lies of others.
 
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