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Science Disproves Evolution

154 said:
Not true. I wish you could see that that is not true. It is fine, honest and intellectually legitimate to remain skeptically unpersuaded as an agnostic. "I don't know." is a good, honest and fair answer. At the same time, ardently arguing therefore that God is Not True is not logically and rationally justified. That is where your bias takes over and argues and advocates that which it desires.
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Do Leprechauns exist? If you say "No", how can you rationally justify such a position?
 
154 said:
And where exactly did you see that in my words?
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154, get real. You have avoided making any concrete stand since you started posting here.

You either have no convictions, or no ability to express them.

Aren't you the same 154 who waxes eloquent with such utterances as "zing", "boom shakalaka boom", and "tee hee"?
 
Elizabeth I said:
Personally, I'd be interested in knowing if you think leprechauns exist.
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Of course, probably not. However...
I have given it some thought and examination and consider it possible that all the various cultural accounts of leprechauns, elves, gnomes, and more specifically, the first-hand Native American accounts that have been told to me concerning "the little people"... all of these might be different cultural interpretations and then-current contemporary accurate reports and/or portrayals of possible real occurrences. No matter how unlikely even I consider that to be, I do allow for some such possibility.
 
154 said:
Of course, probably not. However...
I have given it some thought and examination and consider it possible that all the various cultural accounts of leprechauns, elves, gnomes, and more specifically, the first-hand Native American accounts that have been told to me concerning "the little people"... all of these might be different cultural interpretations and then-current contemporary accurate reports and/or portrayals of possible real occurrences. No matter how unlikely even I consider that to be, I do allow for some such possibility.
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Have you determined if evolution is a religion or not yet?
 
154 said:
Of course, probably not. However...
I have given it some thought and examination and consider it possible that all the various cultural accounts of leprechauns, elves, gnomes, and more specifically, the first-hand Native American accounts that have been told to me concerning "the little people"... all of these might be different cultural interpretations and then-current contemporary accurate reports and/or portrayals of possible real occurrences. No matter how unlikely even I consider that to be, I do allow for some such possibility.
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How about Ganesh, Lord of Beginnings?
 
John Jones said:
154, get real. You have avoided making any concrete stand since you started posting here.

You either have no convictions, or no ability to express them.

Aren't you the same 154 who waxes eloquent with such utterances as "zing", "boom shakalaka boom", and "tee hee"?
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Hi again, John Jones. How's it goin'?
 
154 said:
Simon39759 said:
Assuming that the Christians that accept the finding of science are insincere and lack seriousness in their faith?
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And where exactly did you see that in my words?
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What?

Here is your original quote:
154 said:
No, actually I didn't, but I will take your word for it. I don't really doubt it. It's probably safe to say that many or most "Christians" are really just more of a "cultural Christian" rather than any sincere and serious believer in Jesus Christ. These evolution-believing Christians probably aren't very serious about and don't talk much about Jesus either, is my guess.
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Let me high-lite that again for you:
154 said:
No, actually I didn't, but I will take your word for it. I don't really doubt it. It's probably safe to say that many or most "Christians" are really just more of a "cultural Christian" rather than any sincere and serious believer in Jesus Christ. These evolution-believing Christians probably aren't very serious about and don't talk much about Jesus either, is my guess.
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Christians that accept evolution are insincere =
'[They] are "cultural" Christian rather than sincere (believer in Jesus Christ)'.

They lack seriousness in their faith =
'[They] are "cultural" Christian rather than (...) serious (believer in Jesus Christ)' and '[they] probably aren't very serious'

Here is exactly where I saw it, in your own words...
 
Alright then Simon. Do you personally know any, not nominally and culturally "Christians," but serious, faithful believers, advocates and proponents of Jesus Christ who happen to at the same time believe the Theory of Evolution to be true?
 
154 said:
Alright then Simon. Do you personally know any, not nominally and culturally "Christians," but serious, faithful believers, advocates and proponents of Jesus Christ who happen to at the same time believe the Theory of Evolution to be true?
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My mother.

She has 4 degrees in theology. She's a liberal Christian and has no illusions about the humble human and political origins of the Bible, or Judaism, of Christianity, and of any other religion, but she is a Christian. Of that there is no doubt.

She fully accepts evolution as a natural process. Doesn't phase her in the slightest.

Whose faith do you think is stronger, 154?
My mothers, which permits her to view the world as it really is?
Or yours, which requires you to denigrate everyone who disagrees with your strict, biblically-inerrant and scientifically-ignorant worldview lest it all come crashing down about your ears?
Who's the better Christian?
 
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154 said:
Couple pages ago. I know you saw it.
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And as I said,
Why would you make such a statement? It exposes your implicit understanding that science is superior to religion in the fact that it is real.

Otherwise, why bother with trying to label evolution a religion?
 
154 said:
Alright then Simon. Do you personally know any, not nominally and culturally "Christians," but serious, faithful believers, advocates and proponents of Jesus Christ who happen to at the same time believe the Theory of Evolution to be true?
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Robert Bakker.
 
154 said:
Alright then Simon. Do you personally know any, not nominally and culturally "Christians," but serious, faithful believers, advocates and proponents of Jesus Christ who happen to at the same time believe the Theory of Evolution to be true?
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First of all, do we agree that you said what I quoted? I mean, you seem to deny it for a minute...
Do you agree that it is incredibly condescending and insulting toward the "not so serious" Christians?



And then, to answer your question, I would not feel comfortable judging anybody else's faith...
Now before you take that as an admission of defeat, let me get uncomfortable and try to answer you...

Yes, of course I do.
I come from a Catholic background, so, most of the Christians I grew up with, certainly none of the ones I know about, had any problem with the TOE.
I now work in the Southern US, so, I am surrounded by a majority of Christians.
I work in the biological field and everybody here I know off accepts the TOE as an obvious given. In fact, most of us use it, or principles derived from it, routinely (my lab does a lot of sequencing of bacterial genome, also, because we work with relatively obscure organisms, we often have to design our primers from related organisms, assuming common descent, this technique as yet to fail us).

And so yes, among these many, many Christians I knew over the years that accepted the TOE, many were shining example of faith, devoting a lot of time outside to church activity and the like...

In fact, to be even more honest, it is generally the loud-mouthed creationists that were the least convincing.
I often feel that the louder a person claim to be Christian, the less he will behave in a Christian manner... Presumably because they are too busy putting a show of their faith to actually follow the teachings of charity and tolerance they claim in their prophet's name...
 
Foster Zygote said:
Robert Bakker.
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Robert Bakker; Ken Miller; Christian Theodosius... Our very own CJ.23... all the way to Asa Gray. They have been many Christians that are serious and sincere enough in their faith that they need not propping it up with a denial of the finding of science...
 
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Okay.
I don't know anybody that is a supporter of evolution that is an equal or greater proponent of Christ at the same time. Not one. Don't recall ever even having known someone like that.
But if you say so.
 
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