Scottish Parliament e-Petition 417

[Rolfe]

Minor typo alert - quote by Rolfe attributed to me. But I don't think anyone's confused.

It's happened again - I'll ask a mod to fix it. I can see what's happened. Bunntamas has replied to me first, and put my post details in her clipboard, then gone on to reply to you and just pasted in what was already there, so pointing to the wrong poster.

Rolfe.

 

[Caustic Logic]

FWIW

Divided by a common language again, possibly? There are situations where referring to someone by their unadorned surname is considered to be perfectly polite. Artists and musicians for example. Referencing someone's scientific work. And then there are situations when it isn't. My impression was that your use of Jim Swire's unadorned surname was intended to be in the latter category. Please forgive me if I'm wrong about that.

Indeed, we egalitarian Americans are less concerned with that. We might, to be proper, use all titles, but dropping them is not necessarily rude. In the context here, however, I can see why even an American would suspect disrespect.

 

[ddt]

766 two days later.

Up to 873 now. Has anyone noticed two Bolliers from Switzerland among the signatures from the first day? Timing is everything.

 

[Rolfe]

Rolfe;

 

[Rolfe]

Never mind. Comment deleted. I won't be back for awhile.

Fair enough, maybe a break would be good. I hope you return though. You raised some interesting new points and insights, even if they didn't necessarily got the reception you might have been hoping for.

I hope we can go back there when you're ready.

Rolfe.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Yay! More Americans! New US signatories include Rodney Stitch again (but only appears once) and "Juval." Other USAans - Did I mention Andrew Kilgore of blame-Israel WRMEA? I'm not sure if "Must B" is legit. Hasn't been removed. Didn't count, but perhaps a dozen others I haven't heard of. I still don't know how to reach the scattered Americans that would sign this if they knew about it.

Up to 873 now. Has anyone noticed two Bolliers from Switzerland among the signatures from the first day? Timing is everything.

Only 875 it says now. Strangely, 873 when I started looking ten minutes ago. That's a rather long slow patch, but as soon as I'm looking it picks up. Odd.

Yes, the Bolliers jump on everything right off with MISSION LOCKERBIE stuff that never says things like:
Information revealed shows without clearly and doubt, that some informations revealed by Edwin Bollier (MEBO) to CIA into of 1989 has proven falschisch! Therefore can have Mr. al-Megrahi nothing with which to do of Pan Am 103 bombing on 21 December 1988!

Someday I'll get the scoop just who Mahnaz is, but not a high priority.

 

[Rolfe]

Of course, the low-hanging fruit signed up early. Also, JFM don't seem quite as focussed as I would have hoped. They have had two items in Scottish publications (a letter in the Herald and a small article in the P&J), and in neither case is there a direct appeal to readers to SIGN THE BLOODY PETITION. Worse still, the wording in both cases could be taken to read that the petition had already been submitted and is no longer open for signatures.

The item in the Maltese paper worked because the message was clear. I think they need better publicity within Scotland and indeed the rest of Britain.

Rolfe.

 

[Buncrana]

Nearly 900 isn't too bad at all. In truth, much more that I thought it would attract. A number of notable names have popped up too: Dr Fieldhouse, castigated at the FAI by some, then given a public apoligy by the Sheriff, and I noticed a certain Mary Boylan, the Scottish policewoman (I'm presuming!), who discovered and noted remnants of blast damaged luggage and a CIA badge, told it was the suitcase remnants that contained the bomb, and the suitcase belonged to a Joseph Patrick Curry, Special Forces. When she was asked in 1999 to provide a statement on her discovery, she requested her notebook from the time to clarify her statement before producing it, and was told her notebook was missing.

No mention of Joseph Curry's suitcase being intimately involved with the explosion was ever referred to again.



*Rolfe, clear your pm box thank you please!

 

[Rolfe]

Your wish is my command!

It's up at 930 now. The signatures look genuine to me, so far as it's possible to tell. I don't know what would be considered to be good, bad or indifferent in this context though.

Rolfe.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Nearly 900 isn't too bad at all. In truth, much more that I thought it would attract. A number of notable names have popped up too: Dr Fieldhouse, castigated at the FAI by some, then given a public apoligy by the Sheriff, and I noticed a certain Mary Boylan, the Scottish policewoman (I'm presuming!), who discovered and noted remnants of blast damaged luggage and a CIA badge, told it was the suitcase remnants that contained the bomb, and the suitcase belonged to a Joseph Patrick Curry, Special Forces. When she was asked in 1999 to provide a statement on her discovery, she requested her notebook from the time to clarify her statement before producing it, and was told her notebook was missing.

No mention of Joseph Curry's suitcase being intimately involved with the explosion was ever referred to again.

Thanks, man. I heard above about Fieldhouse, but it's getting too many names to scan. I had noticed Boylan and thought it looked familiar. Interesting that the people who had raised a question or two before apparently still have those questions. Presuming they're real. The font looks the same in all signatures, and the fact of it not being removed yet only says so much.

Where's Bobby Ingram? We wouldn't we know "the Golfer" if he signed up.

Yeah, it's movin' again now, 957.

 

[Rolfe]

Bobby Ingram is English. He probably doesn't even know about the petition. It's gone a bit viral, but only in a limited way, and while press coverage in Scotland has been poor, in England it's non-existent.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

And by the way, where is the Megrahi / Megrahi family, any other Libyan, or Maltese supporter signature on any of the pro Megrahi petitions? Why are they absent and their absence un-noted here, or anywhere else for that matter?

To be fair, the petition had only been up about 12 hours when Bunntamas posted that. It was a bit early for anyone to be noting or not noting anyone's absence. We know there are close on 100 Maltese signatories now, and some from Libya.

There is also a Libyan signatory whose name appears as Khaled Elmegarhi. I believe this to be Abdelbaset al-Megrahi's eldest son.

http://lockerbiecase.blogspot.com/2010/10/weel-kent-names-on-megrahi-petition.html

I don't honestly know why this should be especially significant, except that I ought to withdraw my opinion that it would be grossly inappropriate for Megrahi's close relatives to sign the petition. My main thought, really, was that if it looked as if the petition was being swamped by such signatures, that wouldn't look good.

I just thought it was worth mentioning.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

The petition has now been open for a week, and has attracted nearly 1,000 signatures (OK, 973).

I've had some small success by emailing friends as a group, simply outlining the purpose of the petition, assuring them that the conviction was a stitch-up, and linking them to David Morrison's article for further information. This relied on these friends trusting my judgement to some extent, and knowing that I'm not in the habit of sending round-robin emails supporting wacky causes.

I can't commend the Morrison article highly enough. It was published only two months afer the end of the trial, and encapsulates everything that's wriong with the verdict without diverting off into wild allegations or conspiracy theories.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

1,000 signatures now.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

1,200 at ten days.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

Maybe it's mean comment, but I just noticed the number of signatures on the JFM petition has now passed the number on the internet petition Bunntamas seemed to be quite keen on ("Boycott Scotland for releasing Megrahi, Lockerbie bomber"). Though actually, the more you look at the comments on that petition, the more you realise that a significant number of people actually posted to condemn or ridicule the proposition, not to support it - on some pages it could be as many as half the entries!

Not that this proves anything one way or the other, least of all that 1,250 or 2,000 or 5,000 or whatever signatures would be enough to make the Scottish politicos sit up and take notice when all the political pressure is to bury the whole thing.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

Bump. 1,300.

Rolfe.

 

[Bunntamas]

Maybe it's mean comment, but I just noticed the number of signatures on the JFM petition has now passed the number on the internet petition Bunntamas seemed to be quite keen on ("Boycott Scotland for releasing Megrahi, Lockerbie bomber").

Maybe you missed this little tidbit

Signatures are checked for repeat signing and unlikely names. These will be removed.

from the Scottish Parliament web site where the petition is posted.


It will be interesting to see how many signatures are actually relevant following the above procedures.

And regards your twisting (once again) of my alleged (by you) opposition to the petition (though I haven’t signed it, nor do I intend to), perhaps you also missed this comment by me in the “did” comments forum:

Well, I for one, would like to see more about the pubilc opinion at this stage in the game, as well as what influence if any, Swire's recent letters in the media have had and prior to the second appeal being dropped....

Not that this proves anything one way or the other

UH no kidding. See above duplicated sig’s as well as my previous comments about real evidence, tens of thousands of forum and blog comments postings and nothing from Megrahi / his family re: this alleged not guilty "cause" resulting in nothing.

would be enough to make the Scottish politicos sit up and take notice when all the political pressure is to bury the whole thing.

Based on the Scottish government’s actions toward, not only the victims and their families, but also the Scottish people, on the release of a convicted murderer, all I can say is …. Best of luck to ya. You keep posting and regurgitating media. Maybe some day someone (distant voice echoing, again, "where is Megrahi's voice in this now?") will listen. But I’m not holding my breath.

 

[Architect]

Bunntamas

I have followed these various Lockerbie threads but thus far posted nothing. FWIW, the plane would normally have passed over my own town about 5 minutes later, hence the interest.

Given the paucity of evidence, the continual harking back to the verdict seems a little peculiar to say the least. On any fair reading the chap was likely to have his appeal sustained. What we're therefore looking at is a political "fix" to get around such embarassment to both the Scottish and US authorities. The suggestion of a parliamentary inquiry is therefore quite a sensible way forward.

Clive Fairweather, formerly HMIP in Scotland and a seasoned military man, was quite sure that Megrahi was a ruthless intelligence operative. I have no reason to doubt Clive's opinion, not least as he's a friend, although we've never spoken about it. I am therefore not resting under any misapprehensions about the man. This is, however, about evidence. Evidence so flimsy that the independent observers to the trial were shocked.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Bunntamas

I have followed these various Lockerbie threads but thus far posted nothing. FWIW, the plane would normally have passed over my own town about 5 minutes later, hence the interest.

Given the paucity of evidence, the continual harking back to the verdict seems a little peculiar to say the least. On any fair reading the chap was likely to have his appeal sustained. What we're therefore looking at is a political "fix" to get around such embarassment to both the Scottish and US authorities. The suggestion of a parliamentary inquiry is therefore quite a sensible way forward.

Clive Fairweather, formerly HMIP in Scotland and a seasoned military man, was quite sure that Megrahi was a ruthless intelligence operative. I have no reason to doubt Clive's opinion, not least as he's a friend, although we've never spoken about it. I am therefore not resting under any misapprehensions about the man. This is, however, about evidence. Evidence so flimsy that the independent observers to the trial were shocked.

Amen!